North Korea has two nuclear warheads it can load on its mid-range Rodong missile, Japan’s Kyodo News reported, citing an analyst at the International Crisis Group, a non-government organization.
The warheads were built using plutonium extracted from North Korea’s Yongbyon nuclear plant, Kyodo reported, citing Daniel Pinkston, who said he got the information from a government official without divulging which country.
South Korean and U.S. intelligence officials have obtained evidence of the warheads, Pinkston told Kyodo.
North Korea said earlier this month it plans to fire a rocket carrying a satellite into orbit between April 4 and 8. South Korea and the U.S. suspect the launch is a cover for a test of a long-range ballistic missile, which would be a breach of a United Nations resolution.
Japan said it will shoot it down if it flies over japan while the US has said they can't do anything about it.
I'm getting mixed messages about this, what is brewing up over there?
is anyone else excited by the possibility that nuclear war could be as cool, dramatic and sex driven as hollywood has made it out to be?
is anyone else excited by the possibility that nuclear war could be as cool, dramatic and sex driven as hollywood has made it out to be?
Im sure they have beautiful innocent fun loving life giving kids like everyone else
One thing which always bemused me, the noble dictators of NK named these two flowering plants after them.why would that be bemusing after all they are a bunch of dictating commie swine...
Nothing wrong with being a commie.I perfer to keep my own island thanks and to hell with anyone who wants it :D
([url]http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.image?id=1541[/url])
([url]http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/NewZealand/Cities/Christchurch/ChristchurchCathedral.jpg[/url])
?????
Also... why does NK need a communications satellite? No one talks to them, it's a closed country!
Well if he's going to lauch his nuke/cathedral then i hope it lands on the innes/pap intersection round 2.45....should clear traffic nicely.
Did someone say cold war?
A cold war (or bipolar superpower confrontation) is a state of conflict between nations that does not involve direct military action but is pursued primarily through economic and political actions, acts of espionage or conflict through surrogates (proxy wars).
a state of political hostility between countries using means short of armed warfare
Just wait for Kim Il Jong to die
Wait to die?
He's already dead.
I would not want to be against these soldiers... in close combat
I meant Kim Jong-il, but you mean Kim Il-sung ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il-sung[/url])
Just grab all the kamuchi (*spelling) you can peoples :D
Just grab all the kamuchi (*spelling) you can peoples :D
Vault 404
Apparently there is going to be a UN Emergency Meeting
...fark last thing we need is this shit.
I never knew Russia and China are allys with North Korea!
not found
I did note that US intelligence featured a lot in the news story with regards to nuclear capability and how the rockets could carry payloads and how many bombs they have ready to go.
This would be the same intelligence that knew all about WMD's in Iraq.
Not that I don't think they're right, but large grains of salt will be taken
This is like the biggest propaganda they have about nuclear weapons... goes the same way to Iran too.
"oooohhh but but they could attach nuclear warheads on their little rockets"
"we need to put a missile defense shield in eastern europe to protect american lives"
do you know what i have to say to people who believe that?
STFU and GTFO and l2readabook
This is all fear mongering!
yip the missle silo bs was utter bs. Amerifags once again thinking amerifags rule the world.
All I see is a hill.
All I see is a hill.
[url]http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=40.855756,129.665821&spn=0.002909,0.006722&z=18[/url]
All I see is a grainery.
All I see is a troll. Go back under the bridge.
Russia and China are more reluctant allies...i highly doubt that they would go to war, they blatantly side with America.....UN will just do some sanctions...which will mean sweet fuck all....sanctions on sanctions haha
It was war that got Germany out of recession however....
If that's not a grainery for all the RICE FIELDS around it, then it must be a sewage treatment plant.
You can think what you like, but I hope to god you never work for an intelligence agency.
Here we all are going "oh it's hyped about by the media", you go post some information you got from the media, to which I poke a "oh it's hyped out" pointer into for sake of provoking thought/reminder, and you lose your fucking nut.
Who's chomping who?
([url]http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7341/roflboteoro.jpg[/url])
How come you know so much about North Korea Iblis?
Are you some sort of commie hugging pinko?
[url]http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=40.855756,129.665821&spn=0.002909,0.006722&z=18[/url]
water treatment plant?
just cause it looks like a rocket silo from dune II doesn't mean it's a rocket silo.
it's google fuckin maps man...it seriously looks like a blur in a field of blur.
TOP SECRET MISSILE SOLO? ([url]http://maps.google.co.nz/?ie=UTF8&ll=-37.142431,174.893187&spn=0.003169,0.004828&t=h&z=18[/url])
I'm actually obsessed with it. I've watched countless docos and read numerous articles about it.
you do know that south korea has extremely good intelligence and coupled with the U.S and their ground penetrating radar/other shit its pretty hard to hide anything...
water treatment plant?
just cause it looks like a rocket silo from dune II doesn't mean it's a rocket silo.
it's google fuckin maps man...it seriously looks like a blur in a field of blur.
TOP SECRET MISSILE SOLO? ([url]http://maps.google.co.nz/?ie=UTF8&ll=-37.142431,174.893187&spn=0.003169,0.004828&t=h&z=18[/url])
It also happens to look VERY much like a rocket launch tower not olny in Dune II, but in real life:
Chinese Launch Tower:
([url]http://images2.sina.com/english/technology/2008/0811/U138P200T1D177596F8DT20080925075415.jpg[/url])
Suspect tower in N.K. that looks to be the same thing. The huge shadow it casts is a dead give-away.
([url]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3672/capturebma.png[/url])
It's not like the US use the shitty blurry images from Google either - They will know exactly what it is.
Such a slur on Pyro's fine character, troll indeed. Pyro are you still selling that wheat grain or MEAL (pronunciation in Korean) from your silo? I would be interested in acquiring some. What was the rate we agreed upon again?
I make very considered statements, and I will quickly, gladly, and eagerly challenge any remarks that come across as posted without thought.
who is iblis?
ahahaha
are you serious?
that structure could be anything from military to civilian use, just cause you have "Chinese launch tower" above it doesn't mean it's a Chinese launch tower...and wtf? Chinese launch tower? they weren't even in fucking dune AND we're talking about North Korea here, you cant generalise their launch towers into 1 category, just cause they're both Asian countries doesn't mean their launch towers look the same.
unfortunately zarath when you took that photo you were pointing the camera straight into the sodding sun and now none of us can tell what the fuck it is.
seriously that photo looks almost as if it were trying to persuade tourists into coming to china "LOOK AT SUNSET, WE HAVE ROCKET LAUNCH PAD TOO!" either way it's not going to win a Pulitzer.
btw, I realise you didn't take the photo zarath that's part of my point.
[url]http://www.sina.com/[/url] is this a reliable news website? i cant even read what it says, so answer is no.
@crazy whitey, you stupid fuck, I don't "know" and that's the fucking point, were you deprived of oxygen as a child?
How come you know so much about North Korea Iblis?Who cares. His replies regarding NK are thought provoking.
Are you some sort of commie hugging pinko?
I will trade you one tonne of grain (a years supply) for two nuclear warheads, as I need something to store in my silo after all the grain is gone.
Thanks.
Ok ok, I did get your point.
Ok ok, I did get your point. But my point is you can't just blow off that sat image as being nothing either - I did say the "suspect looking tower", and there's no way you can say it isn't "suspect" looking in regard to the question of whether or not N.K. have such technology.
The fact that pic of the other tower is in China is irrelevant. It's just a picture of a launch tower that is likely the closest representation of what one might look like if built by the North Koreans, due to the two countries being at a similar level infancy in regard to the technology (well, China have advanced signifiacantly recently, but the principal remains similar). That's not an unfounded assumption.
As to it's authenticity and source - well, there's a shit load of pictures of it online, that's just one from a random Google image search. It's authenticity and clarity (which is perfectly fine for it's intent) are besides the point.
Edit: after all that, I just realised you misinterpreted my post entirely. I was in no way suggesting that first pic was actually a pic of the suspect tower in N. Korea - It's a tower in China - I just posted it as a comparrison so people could more clearly see what I and others are seeing in the Google satellite image over N.K.
That first pic is a Chinese Launch tower... in China. The satellite image over N. Korea does look suspiciously similar.
the thing that gets me, is NK is one of the poorest countries in the world and survives on the money it receives from other countries to feed its population (which is failing-i saw a hidden cam doco and people are dying in the streets/kids not learning how to walk because there legs aren't strong enough) and yet they spend 500 million u.s on this......To a certain degree India, Pakistan to name a couple.
Yet you call me a troll when all I do is the same thing in reverse. Newsflash m80, the world isn't out to get you.
OCNZ troll.
here's a picture of a rocket silo from the bestselling game call of duty: modern warfare... that looks just like the one in COD4...
You so trolled the shit out of me for posting a thought provoking remark that was intended to be taken reasonably lightly.Now that's an insult. I assure you I am much better at trolling than that. I fail to see how I trolled you, but that's semantics. Your "thought provoking" remark was, "it's a bird! it's a plane! it's anything but what you say it is!". I was trying to challenge your opinion by offering more detail to analyse... but that's right, my definition of trolling must be wrong.
Thanks for playing hypocrisy.
THANKS FOR MISSING THE 'TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY' PART BRUV!
You so trolled the shit out of me .
THANKS FOR MISSING THE 'TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY' PART BRUV!
To a certain degree India, Pakistan to name a couple.
Remember what I said.
but as far as i know they have enough food to feed there population?Well yeah I guess so, but when we had to stop off in India and some of the places we drove through you'd be forgiven thinking otherwise Equity. Massive difference between (I wont say rich and poor, too clechay in this instance) ... well off and not so well off. Very sad.
clearly photoshopped (poorly)
that's a crane photoshopped onto the top of an unfinished aparetment building, with a rocket, marquee tool the lower parts, sample the flame colour.
take a photo of a war zone, zoom in and add your appartment crane rocket.
Still just dripping sarcasm to re-re-re-re-enforce your "don't believe everything you read or are told" point I hope...
The video that picture is from is all over the internet... hardly "photoshopped".
I fear the next thing you'll be doing is quoting Zeitgeist or Loose Change.:eek:
This is nothing but NK wanting to stay relevant in the world.
So you think nothing to worry about eh, it'll all blow over right?
Kinda like Japan in the 1930's?
Where America was all "oh oi nah, don't do what we do... you're not allowed" to which Japan got so fucked off with they were enticed by the yanks into escalating into a full blown war fulled by propaganda and indoctrination?
Costing many thousands of lives and echoing through history as one of the 'greatest' things that ever happened by clever use of more propaganda?
Which then lead to a cold war, and a severe irrational hate for communism leading to one of the greatest atrocities of all time?
Oh yup, history never repeats.
iblis is correct
Comparison to the past is not useless but certainly not as helpful as made out by pyro
There is simply too many differences in current world politics than there was 80-60 years ago.
The LAST thing China wants to do is get between a war with America and anyone else. You don't shit where you eat and you don't destroy your investment. China is barely interested anymore in aggressive military power. They are now run by a government that is more interested in economic imperialism than good old fashioned imperialism.
sorry cowwie but your off the mark on China, big time
Clearly the entire international news media and numerous state goverments who can't even agree on the tiniest of things are all in a massive conspiracy to fake pictures and keep the world population in the dark about the Real North Korea. It's because North Korea is the place where the Obama FEMA muslim re-education concentration camps are being built to house all the heterosexual republican americans who will be enslaved into labour for the WTO while the World Bank launders the money it's hiding from the "fake recession" it created so we will all agree to the New World Order when we're broke and in massive personal debt.
I like this guy :)
Your posts reek of ignorant, baseless opinion.
What was Japan doing that America was also doing to convey a double standard?Colonisation. Japan, UK and others were all exerting their political dominance through force on other countries. This is actually how Japan was forced opened it's shores, the Americans sailed in with a fleet of ships and threatened offshore bombardment if Japan kept refusing trade.
Your posts reek of ignorant, baseless opinion.Less baseless and one sided than yours my friend. but thanks for playing.
Are you saying Japan was just minding their own business and got sucker-punched by America?Oh yea, that's exactly what I'm saying. [NOTE: I'M BEING SARCASTIC IF YOU CAN'T TELL. WHICH IS QUITE POSSIBLE, JUDGING BY THE RESPONSE OF YOUR OTHER POSTS.]
Are you saying their military was reacting in a defencive-only, discriminative, reserved manner?See above. There are never any innocent parties in war.
What is this "greatest atrocity of all time" that happened AFTER the communism scare and the start of the cold war?Flucking Vietnam you plick.
If you mean Hiroshima and Nagasaki, then those happened BEFORE the cold war and the "red scare" in America.Duh?
Go back to history class.orly? So I can create internets arguements on very little unsupported knowledge just like you?
While you're there, learn about all the other atrocities committed by the Roman Empire, the Macedoniansdone.
, the English Empire, the Spanish Empire, the Ottomans, etc. ad nauseam.Yup because I obviously think that we're all here through a history of peaceful co-existance, and everything that points otherwise is a lie by fame seeking historians.
You're not going to goad me into defending America as innocent and perfectBecause I was trying? You're already doing pretty well on your own mate.
, but you'd better bring more to the discussion than just a blame-america-for-everythingNah, trolling america is fun because it gets over reactive responses. [srs:] No. I'm not for a minute pretending that everything is America's fault... I'm simply stating that there's ALWAYS more than first observed. That's why we study. Because there's always new shit to see, and new ways to see it. Another example of you reading the extremes out of my post in order to base some rebuttle on.
fad worldview. I suppose next you're going to say all the recorded history is preserved in a conspiracy to make Japan look bad.OK, now I know you have nothing. History is ALWAYS written by the victors. Any half a clue historian knows this.
History never repeats in exact cycles, no. But one can often draw many a parallel between two events. This is pretty much the reason people study history chappy.
So yes, I think it will all blow over, despite the history of Japan(which I think is nothing like it)
. North Korea does not have the resources to SUSTAIN a war with anyone.Oh, coz Japan sooooo did?
Sure, they have an incredibly large armyindoctrination of a sense of duty does wonders. Where have we seen this before??
, but I repeat myself: They'd starve within a week without supply from China.Know what happened to the Japanese population towards the end of the war?
The LAST thing China wants to do is get between a war with America and anyone else. You don't shit where you eat and you don't destroy your investment. China is barely interested anymore in aggressive military power. They are now run by a government that is more interested in economic imperialism than good old fashioned imperialism.Yup, summing up a complex situation is just that easy huh.
([url]http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6074/words.gif[/url])
Nice to see you don't have any real answers.
Put the fucking leeches on these two. Or lock them in a room with a knife and let them have it out.
To cater for all the readers of this thread, please... more nice asian ladies.
Hot gifs
I look like that.
All asians look the same anyway.
ASIANS
ASIAN
what? Iblis is a moron, he unintentionally takes the fun out of trolling by actually taking it seriously.
Fair request.
they look like something from the TOPGEAR world tour tbh :sly:
Youre very 'experienced' for only 75 posts ah
they look like something from the TOPGEAR world tour tbh :sly:
Youre very 'experienced' for only 75 posts ah
I concur
Joke's on you then. Ask any of these fuckers that know me. If you think passionately arguing = zomgihavetoshowthemiamright then you have been trolled. You're jealous because I'm an articulate, eloquent troll. Come back when you have had some more practice. Oh yeah, I'm incredibly humble as well.
I'm a troll.
Well, at least he finally admitted it.
The OCNZ Anti-troll troll, ithankyouverymuch.
WRONG MOTHERFUCKER!
Jeezuz, you certainly do love taking one absolute extreme interpretation of a post to try to turn it around.
I SUGGEST YOU REVISE YOUR HISTORY BEFORE MAKING YOUR CLAIMS.
Colonisation. Japan, UK and others were all exerting their political dominance through force on other countries. This is actually how Japan was forced opened it's shores, the Americans sailed in with a fleet of ships and threatened offshore bombardment if Japan kept refusing trade.
Less baseless and one sided than yours my friend. but thanks for playing.
Oh yea, that's exactly what I'm saying. [NOTE: I'M BEING SARCASTIC IF YOU CAN'T TELL. WHICH IS QUITE POSSIBLE, JUDGING BY THE RESPONSE OF YOUR OTHER POSTS.]
See above.There are never any innocent parties in war.
Flucking Vietnam you plick.
orly? So I can create internets arguements on very little unsupported knowledge just like you?
OK, now I know you have nothing. History is ALWAYS written by the victors. Any half a clue historian knows this.
Oh, coz Japan sooooo did?
Tell me; Why do you think Japan bombed America?
Because they thought they could conquer the whole continent?
Know what happened to the Japanese population towards the end of the war?
Yup, summing up a complex situation is just that easy huh.NO, you're right. I can just refuse to make any statements or opinions without either first writing an entire footnoted treatise on it, or just refuse entirely on the basis that it's impossible to understand anything completely. Nice effort to stonewall me into being unable to respond.
Welcome to two pages ago.
dave trolls
iblis retorts
dave lols
iblis retorts
dave lols some more
iblis retorts
dave does a run down of how the troll went
iblis retorts
Dave spells out plain and simple why he is the man <---- you are here
iblis retorts
???
iblis retorts
you two are about as sharp as a bag of marbles.
It's called subjectivity. If I don't read your post the way you thought it sounded in your head, that's your problem. I've had no problem with how you've read mine, bar your lollerastic responses to them.
no. You don't take things the wrong way, you specifically contort them to support your arguements. Which are also flawed in the fact that you respond to an extremism I never supported in the first place.
SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT? I DIDN'T HEAR YOU!
I choose caps to add emphasis, because you don't seem to pick up when I do more subtle things. Not because I'm 'shouting'.
Or if you prefer, it could be like an adult shouting slowly at someone who doesn't understand. Raising your voice never helps though, because it doesn't address the reason WHY they don't understand. But that doesn't matter. It's used as a ploy to make you look stupid. Because apparently it's how you think someone wins an debate. It's not, btw.
Seriously, that makes no sense. I'd be happy for a third party to explain to me what you meant so you don't have to type it out in frustration.
I disagree. That is all.
You don't understand because you choose not to? Or because you actually know nothing about this subject? I'm angling for a little of both, though probably more from column B.
I'm getting sand in my vagina.
No, I'd say you've HAD sand in your vagina, washed it out, got over it.
Which may very well defeat your interpreted point. Big Bad America is the only country that picks on others.
You interpreted it that way. Any one who knew what they were on about would simply agree that it is always better to look into the causality and surrounding circumstances than the result. Of course, whatever better supports your argument.
And Vietnam has what exactly to do with Japan in WWII?
Nothing. Just another example of a lot of wasted lives over something that really wasn't all that much of a problem.
We're not actually talking about WW2 here. It's just another example (well, more specifically the pacific war) of similar circumstances.
You did a pretty bad job of debunking my unsupported knowledge.
As of yet I'm still to see a single scrap of supporting evidence. Don't try and drag me into an appeal to ignorance.
I'm sorry, where did I contradict that? My inference which you already agreed to was that both parties are never fully innocent.
History books always have a slant towards the victors. There are no innocent parties, no. But that does not mean everything you read should be taken at face value, which is all you've shown me so far. You didn't imply anything with that sentence, you outright put it out there by attempting to lead the argument. Now you're the one telling me it's my fault I didn't read your post the way you thought of it? hang on... where have I heard this before?
They had more resources to begin with than the North Koreans do now, which was my point. I fail to see you have countered it.
It was America who supplied a lot of those resources. Consequently, the Japanese weren't too impressed when America decided they were going to blockade Japanese trade.
Did I say that? No. Stop trying to drag me into a straw man. They did, however, think that we wouldn't give a shit about losing Hawaii enough to not take them on, and they could own the Pacific. An empire is taken an inch at a time.
WHY do you think THAT was.
Surely they didn't just wake up one day and go "oh, let's attack America!"
(pssst, see above.)
They starved very quickly? Oh wait, that's right, they had been fighting for quite some time.
hmm. Because fighting with limited resources and using up all your limited resources while fighting are in no way linked.
NO, you're right.
Yup. Coz Hitler didn't wanna attack the USSR either.
But then he did.
Nice effort to stonewall me into being unable to respond.
You seemed quite happy to take a breather before trying to dig up some more bollocks to smear across my screen in support of your efforts to try and dispel my lose observation of parallels between the NK situation and past events.
Remember the topic. Quit trying to lead the it off down a merry path never to be seen again.
I dont think China will happily share the border with a new democratic Korea esp if is backed up by a American force, China's quite happy to have NK as a buffer, no military police state welcomes a new democratic neighbor.
I dont think the nationalists in china are obsessed only with making $$$, that country survived before with out the commercial success its having now, \
Wow I'm not that attracted to Asian ladies but this changes everything.
To cater for all the readers of this thread, please... more nice asian ladies.
not quite the one i wanted to quote but i panicked when those gifs came up
you guys trying to get me in trouble. its bad enough what i have typed on screen above now.
Im sitting in a room full of Koreans and im sure they saw those gifs and now think im some kind of pervert.
I think the guy next to me is reading thins
And this is my hot Asian wench
And this is my hot Asian wench
lol, she looks a bit like Elizabeth Taylor :P
([url]http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp132/uppityduck/liz_taylor_jewelry.jpg[/url])
Countries that benefit from buffer states are countries that want certain people out of the country and having another state in the way makes your border more secure............how many flights from democratic countries go into China everyday? They arent worried about buffering themselves from democracy. You can get mainland cheese in the supermarket there.
Even using the term military police state is not quite right because its not a form of police state that is common in the world. Its easy to think police state and start making comparisions to some of the more authoritarian countries in the world but thats not right at all in the case of China.
And no the country was not really benefiting from closed borders and communist top down management prior to now. It was more corrupt, much poorer and conditions were much worse. Things have really improved for China and everyone in that society realises it. Isolation will not help China
Here is an interesting twist to the story... mutated zombies with swine flu....
get ready folks this is going to be the best RPG you will ever play, cutting edge gfx, high definition surround sound, the list goes on.
N.Korea threatens nuclear test over U.N. sanctions
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE53S1W520090429[/url]
They fucken crazy.
Here is an interesting twist to the story... mutated zombies with swine flu....
get ready folks this is going to be the best RPG you will ever play, cutting edge gfx, high definition surround sound, the list goes on.
N.Korea threatens nuclear test over U.N. sanctions
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE53S1W520090429[/url]
A starving man in North Korea has been executed after murdering his two children for food, reports from inside the secretive state claim.
A 'hidden famine' in the farming provinces of North and South Hwanghae is believed to have killed up to 10,000 people and there are fears that incidents of cannibalism have risen.
The grim story is just one to emerge as residents battle starvation after a drought hit farms and shortages were compounded by party officials confiscating food.
This is pretty horrible
[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2269094/North-Korean-parents-eat-children-driven-mad-hunger-famine-hit-pariah-state.html?ICO=most_read_module[/url]
North Korean parents 'eating their own children' after being driven mad by hunger in famine-hit pariah state
I kinda like the hotel...
The Google reviews are pricelessHoly Crap. I thought you were joking.
richard cronin
reviewed 5 months ago
They tell me I'm having a great time, this is the best place on earth and the food is out of sight (literally). Some people like it so much they say they are never leaving and a nice fat man told me I can stay as long as he want's. It's a little drafty but they say windows will fix that problem,or summer, however it makes going to the bathroom or yelling for help a lot easier.Smiling lady said when I leave here they are taking me camping, I do hope Dennis Rodman gets out of rehab soon.
Overall I considered the trip a success from my perspective. However, I am not a typical tourist. My interest tends towards people rather than monuments and comforts. The fact that I paid a very high price for mediocre accommodations and food (compared to what I had in Bhutan for example) is not a major issue with me. However, I did object to being “nickel and dimed” to death. Below are some examples.
1. There were no complimentary tea bags in hotel rooms. Just empty cups.
2. No complementary bottles of water in the room.
3. Extra payment if I wanted an extra cup of tea with a meal or an extra bottle of water. (The tea cup provided was often very small.)
4. There was never any fruit after a meal. (Even though apples are local and plentiful?)
5. The vegetables offered with each meal were minimal in quantity and variety. Never saw a single pea, carrot, or leafy type such as spinach. Only once had a tiny wedge of tomato. We did get some corn, but only through the patient perseverance of our guide.
5.There was no snack or refreshments provided during rest stops on long trips.
Prices for “extras” were totally absurd. A few examples:
$2 for one apple.
5 Euro for a few garlic cloves
$10 for a packet of biscuits which we needed to pay for in lieu of a lunch when we did a hike.
6 Euros for a small bunch of flowers to honour the Leader.
40 RMB for an extra small tea with a meal.
We were not permitted to buy fruit from the market. “Official” sources of fruit available to tourists were few and far between.
One quite disturbing event was to be given bottles of water that were not sealed. Furthermore, the contents were murky. Sealed bottles were provided when we refused the first ones.
My son had placed a small water glass in a location which was not readily visible. The staff made a huge fuss over the issue and he was expected to pay for the missing glass immediately. The issue was dropped after the glass was found (in his room). However, the fuss raised over such a trivial item was not a pleasant experience.
In another disturbing incident, one of the staff dropped and broke a plate. That resulted in considerable and intense anger by someone. (I assume the manager?) It sounded as if the person responsible was going to be severely punished for that minor accident. I recognize that to work in a tourist restaurant is a highly prized and highly competitive position, and that there is considerable stress, but that outburst did nothing enhance our memory of the country.
If North Korea wants more tourists they will need to tone down the intense idolization of their Leader. Being told that we must not crumple a newspaper which “may” have a picture of the great leader inside was over the top. We reached our saturation point after only a few days. I recognize the intense brainwashing the population has been subjected to leads to this. However, if the great leader seriously wants more tourist dollars, he will need to seriously consider showing some respect to the visitors as well.
Speaking of tourist dollars, I take great exception to having to pay considerably more for similar food and accommodations than the amount paid by Chinese tourists!
I have no criticism of our guides. One was in fact quite excellent. She did the very best the system would allow.
A comment re Air Koryo. I read that Air Koryo has been banned from flying in Europe because it did not meet standards. I suspect that one of its failings was the cabins air cleanup system? I, my son, and my wife developed a head cold and chest infection about 3 days after arriving in North Korea. Later we discovered that other travelers were also affected the same way. Incubation time for this type of infection is about 3 days!! It is my suspicion that to save a bit of money, the airline has not maintained the air recirculation system with proper and costly filtration. Someone on the flight coughed and we all got his germs. This leads me to ask what other shortcuts they are taking and how these might affect flight safety??
There were two irritating issues regarding currency. I paid for my laundry in dollars. I was given change in RMB. Later when my wife tried to pay for a coffee with these RMB, there was a major fuss over the “quality” of the notes. A second issue was more serious. The lady at the money exchange counter saw that we were leaving. She came over and asked me to exchange a $100 bill she had for one of my $100 bills. The bill that she wanted to exchange had a printing defect. It was an obvious forgery and quite worthless. That she thought that I would fall for that is a serious and uncalled for personal insult.
I am sorry to say that for the normal typical tourist, I can not recommend a visit to this country. Unless there is a dramatic change in policy, tourism will be limited to those with communist ideologies, and a small handful of curious persons such as myself. While the Mass Games and the dance we saw were superb, they were not enough to offset the simple basic tourism negatives. In addition, the political issues are far too great to even start to discuss.
It was continuously emphasized to us how we have to show respect to the Great Leader as well as to the DPRK system of government. While we were generally treated well, there were many instances where the respect to us as visitors from abroad was at a much lower level than what was expected of us. This was a very noticeable discrepancy, difficult to adjust to in situations when the respect is not reciprocated.
Stayed September 2012, travelled with family
People actually tour there?Yeah, I was surprised too! There is a YouTube channel run by a tourist who travels around the world, jonnyscottblair. Here is one of the North Korean 'guides' singing the famous 'Arirang' on one of the Karaoke buses
North Korea let the world look into its secretive state in an extravagant New Year's Eve fireworks display.
Fireworks dazzled Pyongyang's skies as the public looked on in amazement.