well obviously noting is going to materialize infront of your face but in gods existence there's no real way to mesaure a gods existence is there now

There's lots of things that can't be measured by the scientific method. Doesn't mean they don't exist. I believe that all of creation is proof of God, and so do many scientists and philosophers. Now what smart guy?

everyone is alone at some point in their lives in which RELIGION SAVES THE DAY BUDDY IT SAVES THE DAY HIGH FIVE
/sarcasm

Yeah, okay, whatever.

If no one believed in god would 'god' still exist?

I could believe a candy-covered mountain of money is going to materalize in front of my face, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen.

The concept of God would be abandoned but for that to happen, humans would have to let go of their fear of being out here all alone.

Wtf? I don't need to God or anything else to feel like i'm not alone. We're not alone anyway. What the hell are you people on? :sly:

even if the concept of God was abandoned (which is never going to happen, people desire a deeper knowledge of life that science can't offer us, it's human nature to be curious about the origins of our existence unless you are intellectually and emotionally stagnant) that doesn't make God cease to exist.

Ad hominem: you should change the 'e' in your name to 'o' 'cause you're fucking nuts!

Says the guy that thinks the entire universe and all existence is a sublimely random accident. Idiot.

FFS, it's not about 'fun'.

Oh yeah, life shouldn't be fun, it's all about 'perpetuating the species'. Fuck, you are made of 100% fail.

We are animals. That's why I thought I didn't need to make any distinction.
You haven't read "The Secret Life of Plants" then?  :asian:

So you believe that after your death, and your body has decomposed, you will probably become a plant? Doesn't sound like much fun.

I don't understand exactly what you are trying to say.

I haven't read that no, but I already know that plants have a beautiful and interesting lifespan. All of nature does. I don't need a book to tell me that.

Well, I'm sure that some of my atoms may well find their way into some sort of consciousness (plant/animal) , most probably through the food chain, but for them to re-aggregate into one complete organism doesn't sound very plausible to me

Plants don't have a consciousness. They have life, but not consciousness. Animals, but not humans? I thought you considered us animals anyway.

Buddhism isn't a religion per se....it is more akin to a philosophy.

It's a religion aswell as a philosophy. They practice certain rituals aswell, which could classify it as a religion.

Because it is religion that is fueling the parents decision to take them to church.

Look, you can't blame the entire fucking concept of religion for some stupid parents that are not able to make good decisions with their kids. If they force their children to go to church, it's entirely the responsibility of the parents, no-one else.

I've already agreed with you that I don't think church is a necessary thing, what the hell else do you want? Some parents force their kids to eat fatty take-away foods, should we start pissing and moaning about McDonald's and Burger King aswell?

Heck no!

The closest I can get to that is that when we die our bodies break down and our atoms are dispersed and absorbed.
But reincarnation in the 'traditional' Hindu sense. Nope.

But would it not make sense that if atoms disperse they may eventually form into a new consciousness? Almost sounds scientificially plausible to me. If we recognize that we all came from the same place, and are essentially connected to each and every thing in the universe in some ways, and that the very elements that formed life came from the dust of stars - I don't think the idea of reincarnation is so implausible. Nature seems to be an endless cycle, we are a part of nature so I don't see why we would be an exception to this.

I agree with Arnifix that buddhism is a cool religion, they definately have some interesting ideas even if they don't address the issue of the origin of life/the universe.

Then blame the parents. Why are you blaming religion?

Children are forced to go to church all the time, whether or not they believe in Jesus/God.

Gets to a point where they don't have a choice NOT to believe, they end up being conditioned.

Children get forced to do a lot of things unfortunately. That's just part of being a child. Kids that go to church generally go just to be a part of the church activities with the other kids, and maybe get taught some important and helpful life lessons in the process, how is this a bad thing? The only exception would be places like Evangelistic churches and those crazy nutters from that documentary Jesus Camp for example which is pretty shocking.

I attended church a few times when I was young, I don't have a single bad memory about it, apart from being a little bored sometimes. (and no, my beliefs are not influenced by attending church when I was younger) I grew up, contemplated life with my own rationality, and have come to my own conclusions just like any other intelligent person should be able to.

But like I said, I think religion should be something personal, I'm pretty sure God wants us to just live our lives, not sit in some dusty old church singing hymns every Sunday. But if people see it as a community thing that they enjoy attending, then that is their choice and I am not one to be judgemental.

Well, Arni has said one of the more common ones.
How about years of lost time going to church and being force fed lies and bullshit and fear?

Being taught that murder, rape, discrimination and other evil acts is wrong, is a bad thing? No-one is forced to go to church, people choose to.

How about the abuse of children by feeding them lies and bullshit and superstition?

What lies and superstition? That's just your opinion. Your opinion doesn't mean shit. Kids eventually grow up to the point where they can make their own informed decisions about life so don't give me that crap.

How about being bombarded with the associated crapola because it is so emmeshed in society that it is hard to escape?

Religion is a part of our culture, it always has and always will be. Again, get used to it or continue living your life as a pathetic, bitter person with nothing but cynicism. Doesn't worry me.

Yes, I believe they ARE deluded.

Then you have just proved that the only one whom is deluded is yourself, unfortunately. There are good reasons why these men were so convinced of their belief in God, and it was not to make them 'feel comfortable about life' or any other silly excuse you have to offer.

I like it better when you actually engage your grey matter and post like you did at the top of this page

I like it when other people can do the same, but we can't have everything can we.

Religion is like Alcoholics Anonymous. It provides a crutch for the weak...12 step programme...stations of the cross?
Transferable addictions...the opiate of the masses.

I don't need religion to make me feel comfortable about life. That's not what it means to me at all.

God is non-existent.You believers are deluded.  :finger:

Atheists are the only deluded ones sorry. Ever wonded why atheism is a minority in every single country in the world? That's why.

So according to your logic, people like Einstein, Max Planck, Lemaitre, Newton... arguably some of the most intelligent scientists in the world - these people were all deluded? Because you say so? Fucking fail some more why don't you.

We have a plethora of names for gods...why choose just one based only on hearsay and a strange warm feeling akin to pissing your pants?

Does it really matter what name is used? God means different things to different people. It is quite possible that my idea of what God means is quite different to Thefleastyler's idea of what God means - in the end, I think there is a bigger thing that most of us can appreciate, and it really doesn't matter what name is ascribed to it. I'm not even sure why I use the word God, since I am not specifically Christian, but the fact remains that even if I lived in a completely cut-off society from the rest of the world and had never heard of the word God or christianity in my entire life, I would most likely still have some kind of understanding, or some appreciation for the beauty and order in creation which I would ascribe to something similar, whether I called it God or not.

To me, God encompasses everything. So some small culture living in the middle of nowhere that believe in a pantheon of gods which they have different cultural beliefs and rituals surrounding them, God is all of those. The same thing with a culture that believes nature is what we would call God, same thing just a different approach, know what I mean?

Some people say, either one of the religions is correct or they are all wrong. Yes it is true that the various religions around the world are significantly different, but perhaps they are all just different approaches to the same questions; that they do not all reach the same fundamental conclusions really is irrelevant.

I mean, you only have to look around you to see that everything is creation, in all it's splendor, beauty and imperfections - it doesn't take a scientific theory to figure that out. It is therefore somewhat natural to assume that creation requires a creator of some kind - I mean, that's just a natural reaction, a natural assumption to make when we witness creation in it's entirety. And furthermore to witness the order, complexity, intelligence and design in all of creation, it is again somewhat natural to think that there would be some kind of intelligence, some kind of order behind this creation. Fair enough?

This is what I think Max Planck meant by that particular quote, even if we have widely varying approaches to our understandings of creation, in the end I think we are all reaching for the same thing, and that is God... regardless of what you want to call it.

So that one thing that most belief systems have in common is arguably one of the most important, atleast to me, even if the different cultural "myths" and historical beliefs surrounding them are significantly different.

O.k, that was jestful, but I feel that 'personal gods' are small tumours from the cancer of religion.

To an extent I agree, I think it's a bit sad when someone thinks they can recieve personal miracles by praying and asking for them. Like "God, make me rich please and I will continue to worship you." Give me a break. I don't think that is what God is about at all, and furthermore perhaps God is not able to intervene in our lives or rather chooses not to for whatever reason (it would come to down to the very nature of our existence and whether or not we lived in a deterministic world where our every action was governed and micromanaged, which would suck, or if we are the authors of our own lives, and God is just what gave us the means to be the authors)

However, if we believe that 'God' is the source of all creation as we know it, it would not be unreasonable to assume that it has an admiration for it's creation, and perhaps even some kind of plan for it's future.

So on the other hand, I don't think saying a prayer to say thankyou for the universe, and thankyou for life, or any similar kind of ritual, is not a bad thing at all if this is how people choose to seek a relationship with what we call God.

yes, I realise it probably irks you to hear me mention the word God so much in one post. But remember, it's just a word. It's the meaning that is truly important.

This thread is proof that atheists and agnostics are obsessed with religion, God and their personal beliefs as much as what any religious person is.

Both science and religion wage a tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition with the goal: "towards God!"  - Max Planck