Go spam another thread with random shit about that stupid boat collision, random images thread = random images thread not bitch continuously. Please leave and/or post moar images
Ok guys, time for me to ask a serious question: Without getting into bashing any particular religions or faiths - just referring plainly to believing in the existence of God - what are your thoughts on Pascal's Wager?
I'm interested purely in knowing your own thoughts on this argument. I came across it today, incidentally as an exercise about dissecting argument from my Critical Thinking textbook.
Pascal's Wager is a load of crap and should be obvious to an enlightened brain. It assumes that this omniscient, omnipotent god hinges its entire decision of your eternal fate based upon whether or not you believed in it. Why would such a powerful, supposedly benign entity decide whether or not you suffer eternally on what is of such trivial consequence to its own ends? Maybe god isn't omnipotent. Maybe it loses power based on how many people don't believe in it and therefore must take such a selfish, emotional stake on whether us petty humans believe in it despite the absurd, misguided claims of our peers. Yep, the logic behind that one is rock solid and undermines atheism at its core.
The first two are actually Saddam. The difference you see is both age and film quality. The second is indeed not Osama. He has not appeared in a video/still for quite some time now.
I found the problem. What a bunch of crap. That article has been overrun by christians desperately trying to give Jesus some air of authenticity.
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Robert E. Van Voorst has stated that biblical scholars and historians regard the Jesus never existed thesis as "effectively refuted".
Sigh. This crap again. Not being able to disprove is not proof towards.
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Graham N. Stanton writes, "Today nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed and that the gospels contain plenty of valuable evidence which has to be weighed and assessed critically.
There is NO empirical evidence for Jesus' existence, bar the gospels. The crux of this argument is being ignored. If you do not accept the gospels as non-fiction, Jesus has no more authenticity than Hercules or Hansel and Gretel.
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Robert E. Van Voorst has stated... Graham N. Stanton writes... James Charlesworth writes... Michael Grant believes...
Your problem, summed up in 1 sentence (by you, no less - well done!)
You seem to think I don't want you challenging my faith - you couldn't be more wrong; would I really have bothered in this thread at all if I wanted to breeze through without any challenges? Have you actually read any of this thread? If you had, you'd see we probably have more in common than not - and yet you still go at me with personal attacks that simply undermine any intelligent point you could have made
In actual fact, my post was about the way in which people like you go about it - yourself and a couple of others here make your points from the perspective that you are 100% right and everyone else is a moronic buffoon. Hey, heres an idea: how about injecting a wee bit of humility or, heck, some common human decency into your posts?
My favourite thing though, about you guys, is this: You complain high and low about "arrogant christians knocking on my door, wah wah wah" - and yet you're more arrogant about your position than they ever were ... except, of course, you do it anonymously on a message board, where they actually back themselves and go see you ... and not because they think you're an idiot, but because they actually care about you and think "man, if we're right and hes going to hell, shouldn't we do something?"
Anyways, as I said, I'm out - I'm not posting in this thread if any point I make is going to be dismissed offhand by an anonymous thinks-he-knows-it-all intent on not having an actual discussion.
You say you're going to leave, but I don't believe you. I'm certain you'll still read this.
I don't get how that statement summed up my problem. I vociferously challenge your baseless stance on a 'big man in the sky'.
I assure you we have very little in common, and I'd like you to define what a personal attack is. It's hard to attack you personally without knowing anything about you. If I've implied that you're stupid/crazy, well, from where I stand that's what someone has to be to believe such nonsense. I'm fairly certain I made an obvious effort to focus on your belief and not you. If you cannot separate the two... well, so be it.
I "back my shit up" every day in real life, and not just on the internet. I may be just as arrogant as the door knockers(in my argument with them), but I didn't knock on their door to convince them god doesn't exist. Them thinking they need to help me be saved is FAR more arrogant than anything else I can think of. I doubt you'll understand that, and I don't expect you to.
The people who know me think I'm very humble, but not so humble I lack any confidence. I am immune to the tall-poppy syndrome. I do not allow people to to attack my confidence simply by telling me that if I show any, I must reek of arrogance. Those people allow themselves to be unjustly guilted and walked-over. It is refreshing to be free from that kind of emotional blackmail, but nice try.
From my point of view we are having an actual discussion, but you lack the stamina and conviction to see it through. You can accuse me of being a "know-it-all", and that's perfectly fine by me, you aren't the first, won't be the last, and if for some reason I am and are completely unaware of it, you are obviously terrible at making a clear case for me to see it.
Please show me where I said that religion should be taught in a science class. By the way, I also tried to explain that I'm not religious ...
... actually, have you EVER read anything I wrote?! I mean ... admit it, you're just pissy because you couldn't change my mind, right?!
ffs :disappoin
On second thought, just go back to patting yourself on the back - "Yay, I think I'm awesome because I didn't read anything that guy wrote and dismissed all of it offhand, while putting him in a tidy little box with every other cliche belief I could think of!" The problem with this thread has always been that there are a group of people who aren't interested in actual discussion, but rather pushing their bigoted beliefs and insulting the freedom of thought of other people - to the point that their behaviour has driven away anyone who wanted to actually debate anything. The fact that we can have a thread titled Anti-Religion Thread in these forums is testament to the very bigoted opinions of a number of posters who - whether they would admit it or not - wouldn't have the BALLS to actually back their statements in real life. I would be proud of any one of you who would go to a church and yell at a preacher, or protest outside a church service, or try to teach science in a religious class - at least you were actually DOING SOMETHING.
In fact, as I've said before: I'm done - I'm just gonna pretend this thread doesn't exist, and go back to presenting myself honestly in all areas of my life and backing my statements and beliefs. Have fun enjoying your Religion vs Science thread, ignorant/bigoted science guys!
I've had the balls on many occasions to let proselytisers know exactly how I feel about it. You know, the ones that wake you up on Saturday. Now, before you say that you weren't proselytising, you did choose to engage in this discussion. Which is exactly why I think you're just copping out now. I also am actively engaged in the tactic of subverting religious programming. You've already read some of it. Yes, that's right, I'm a HYPOCRITE. I preach. I preach doubt. I preach self-discovery, knowledge-seeking, and self-determination. I'm more than happy to be a perceived hypocrite to do what I think is right. But that's what religion forces people to do: it holds them at intellectual ransom with regard to denying it. If you preach like they do, you're a hypocrite. If you put your trust in science, you're a hypocrite because you have "faith". If you question their beliefs, you're a hypocrite for not respecting their personal choice. Religion is the ultimate confidence trick. "Heads I'm right, tails you're wrong."
I think you have one thing wrong about me. I think you believe I'm trying to convert you. I'm not. I don't care if you believe in Bigfoot, UFOs, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I will treat you with the exact same abrasive skepticism that I would of someone who came in tossing around ridiculous conspiracy theories. By religious reasoning, people like me should be your best friend. We strengthen your 'faith'. If you can't handle being constantly challenged then I think your faith is just as baseless as I've implied. I have and will continue to be unabated by being constantly challenged by BOTH the religious and the agnostics. Yes, that's right, the agnostics. They're the ones who usually come in like hippies and try to find some muddy middle ground where we all essentially worship some abstract patchwork deity so we can all get along. They annoy me, too.
Another no-sense reply. At least insult faith in some kind of context.
It was in context. I was satirising your adherence to religion, which can be used to drum up any justification for... well, just about anything. Obviously your god didn't find it funny. My god found it hilarious. Perhaps you would like to settle this in a holy war.
Agreed - Zarkov, can you please spoiler the original image, and Iblis, can you just plain remove it from the quote of the post immediately above yours when actually a simple "^^" would've done just as well. This thread is an eye-sore.
God Is Not Great - (can't think of author right now)
I've started reading a few of these books. They're very good. The idea of "religion" and "god" in any shape or form is total ignorance and complete stupidity doing nothing more then belitting and holding back peoples minds. Its sad really.
Its truely, disturbingly sad.
It's Christopher Hitchens. Also +1 (when I'm allowed to give it to you again)
Welcome to two pages ago. Seriously, you two are about as sharp as a bag of marbles. I'll let the audience decide as to who the real troll is, though. You guys decided to rebut my statements, which is fine. I still maintain I haven't lost my cool (NICE CAPS BTW), and if you guys weren't rebutting me then the only other option is that you have trolled me, which is also fine, because I can keep going. I tried to bring an end to it for the sake of the audience, but you two keep chiming in like the muppets on the balcony.
Let's get back to the game, shall we?
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WRONG MOTHERFUCKER!
YEEHAW COWBOY! CAPS 'A BLAZIN!
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Jeezuz, you certainly do love taking one absolute extreme interpretation of a post to try to turn it around.
It's called subjectivity. If I don't read your post the way you thought it sounded in your head, that's your problem. I've had no problem with how you've read mine, bar your lollerastic responses to them.
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I SUGGEST YOU REVISE YOUR HISTORY BEFORE MAKING YOUR CLAIMS.
SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT? I DIDN'T HEAR YOU!
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Colonisation. Japan, UK and others were all exerting their political dominance through force on other countries. This is actually how Japan was forced opened it's shores, the Americans sailed in with a fleet of ships and threatened offshore bombardment if Japan kept refusing trade.
Seriously, that makes no sense. I'd be happy for a third party to explain to me what you meant so you don't have to type it out in frustration.
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Less baseless and one sided than yours my friend. but thanks for playing.
I disagree. That is all.
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Oh yea, that's exactly what I'm saying. [NOTE: I'M BEING SARCASTIC IF YOU CAN'T TELL. WHICH IS QUITE POSSIBLE, JUDGING BY THE RESPONSE OF YOUR OTHER POSTS.]
There's those caps again. But that's right, I'm the one getting sand in my vagina.
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See above.There are never any innocent parties in war.
Which may very well defeat your interpreted point. Big Bad America is the only country that picks on others.
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Flucking Vietnam you plick.
And Vietnam has what exactly to do with Japan in WWII?
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orly? So I can create internets arguements on very little unsupported knowledge just like you?
You did a pretty bad job of debunking my unsupported knowledge.
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OK, now I know you have nothing. History is ALWAYS written by the victors. Any half a clue historian knows this.
I'm sorry, where did I contradict that? My inference which you already agreed to was that both parties are never fully innocent.
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Oh, coz Japan sooooo did?
They had more resources to begin with than the North Koreans do now, which was my point. I fail to see you have countered it.
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Tell me; Why do you think Japan bombed America? Because they thought they could conquer the whole continent?
Did I say that? No. Stop trying to drag me into a straw man. They did, however, think that we wouldn't give a shit about losing Hawaii enough to not take them on, and they could own the Pacific. An empire is taken an inch at a time.
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Know what happened to the Japanese population towards the end of the war?
They starved very quickly? Oh wait, that's right, they had been fighting for quite some time.
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Yup, summing up a complex situation is just that easy huh.
NO, you're right. I can just refuse to make any statements or opinions without either first writing an entire footnoted treatise on it, or just refuse entirely on the basis that it's impossible to understand anything completely. Nice effort to stonewall me into being unable to respond.
what? Iblis is a moron, he unintentionally takes the fun out of trolling by actually taking it seriously.
Joke's on you then. Ask any of these fuckers that know me. If you think passionately arguing = zomgihavetoshowthemiamright then you have been trolled. You're jealous because I'm an articulate, eloquent troll. Come back when you have had some more practice. Oh yeah, I'm incredibly humble as well.
