Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Zarathrustra]

Everyone uses faith, no matter what. You excercise faith when you step into an elevator, or when you go on a plane. Both are acts of faith, whether you know it, or like it.

You relate that to religious faith?  - Thats just plain stupid.

Got probability?

Baldy's image needs no explanation, and very cleaver indeed.  Not to mention 100% relevant to the topic.

[ThaFleastyler]

You relate that to religious faith?  - Thats just plain stupid.

Yeah, the faith it takes to step on an elevator, and faith in God are as different as faith in chalk and faith in cheese. No one is denying that faith exists. The problem is whether God exists - I (and about 2 million other Kiwis say he does) whereas a growing number of people say he doesn't.

PS: I thought Baldy's image was funny. And if I'm being honest, its a fair summation of many Christians attitudes - its far easier to ignore the facts than face them.

[Baldesto]

i saw it and thought it was relevant.ive usually got something to say about everything, but ill stay clear of religion,its how wars start....

[Brendan_Chipp]

You relate that to religious faith?  - Thats just plain stupid.

I'm talking faith in general. It's all the same. Faith in a plane. Faith in an elevator. Faith in God. They're all uses and examples of faith. There's no such thing as "religious faith" and non religious faith. Faith is faith, no matter the application.

[ThaFleastyler]

I'm talking faith in general. It's all the same. Faith in a plane. Faith in an elevator. Faith in God. They're all uses and examples of faith. There's no such thing as "religious faith" and non religious faith. Faith is faith, no matter the application.

But no-one is arguing that faith doesn't exist.
Please read the thread and its topic before posting.

[dirtyape]

I'm talking faith in general. It's all the same. Faith in a plane. Faith in an elevator. Faith in God. They're all uses and examples of faith. There's no such thing as "religious faith" and non religious faith. Faith is faith, no matter the application.

I have faith that your statement is simplistic and irrelevant. There are many manifestations of faith and to generalise them all into one all inclusive "mother-faith principle" is technically possible but also completely irrelevant - for that is not the nature of this discussion. Perhaps if the title of the thread read "faith vs faith - who would win?" then it would be prudent to the conversation, but as it stands your tangent is just diluting the subject.

Or do you have a point that we've all missed?

[Arnifix]

Statistics on religion record New Zealanders' religious affiliations.

More than half the population affiliate with a Christian religion.
Over two million people are Christian.
The main Christian denominations are Anglican (584,793 or 17 percent of people), Catholic (486,012 or 14 percent) and the Presbyterian group (417,453 or 11 percent).
Almost 4 out of 10 people did not specify a religious affiliation in the 2001 Census.

Do you have a number? I fail to see a number there. Over 2 million are christian? But 4 out of 10 people did not specify a religion and there are other religions which I believe would make up more than 10%.

PS. Fixed your post.

EDIT: Census 2006 results. 2,104,734 do not believe in Christianity. This is out of 4,167,684 responses which include responses made for people to young to respond themselves, ie, infants, babies and fetuses (cause we all know they're people!).

[Simon_NZ]

I'm talking faith in general. It's all the same. Faith in a plane. Faith in an elevator. Faith in God. They're all uses and examples of faith. There's no such thing as "religious faith" and non religious faith. Faith is faith, no matter the application.

no it aint, thats absurd.

i was just pointing them out arnifixizzle

[Brendan_Chipp]

no it aint, thats absurd.

Faith is faith. There's not a special religious faith that's different from normal faith. Faith is faith and faith is simply a noun, an action.

It takes more faith for me to step into a metal object that flies 30,000 feet in the air at 900 miles an hour, piloted by Ben and Bill, than it does for me to accept a universe created by an entity way beyond our miniscual and simplistic understanding. Those who believe that the universe just popped out of nowhere, for no reason and no first cause, now there's some serious faith.

To those a tad slow on the uptake (I'm typing slowly here for you) I was responding to a simplistic image someone posted, and I am saying we all use faith to some degree, throughout the course of our daily lives. Be that flying in planes, using elevators etc etc. Faith is not a decision without intellect, or something to be frowned on. Faith is the confidence or trust in a person or thing.

Oh, and as for science V religion argument - an old man once told me that science is like a shark and religion is like a lion. They're each King in their respective environments, but a shark is useless on dry land, and a lion is useless in the ocean.

[Brendan_Chipp]

Yeah, the faith it takes to step on an elevator, and faith in God are as different as faith in chalk and faith in cheese.

Prove it. Both are actions of confidence, which is the meaning of faith.

[Zarathrustra]

Prove it. Both are actions of confidence, which is the meaning of faith.

Statistics show there's not-a-chance-in-hell your gonna die in an elevator - Hardly a leap of faith getting on one.

God:  Statistics show... well, not a lot to be honest. - bit of a leap of faith there.

This thread isn't named "Whats the definition of the word 'faith'.

[Zarathrustra]

The fact is, that science doesn't take anything as truth, it theorizes, and if evidence of God was discovered, it would be held in no lessor regard than any other evidence of creation. (sorry, but the bible does not count as evidence)

Religion takes things as truths, dogmas.  In my opinion that is extremely closed minded, extremely. To the point of denying un-deniable evidence at times.

Why believe in anything?  Why not just take things as how you see them, just accept that some things mankind just doesn't know... and may never know.

Beliefs are dangerous, they stop you from thinking.

@ Fleastyler - It's nice to have someone as open minded as you on the Christian side of this  un-winnable monster of a thread.

[Tiwaking!]

Oh, and as for science V religion argument - an old man once told me that science is like a shark and religion is like a lion. They're each King in their respective environments, but a shark is useless on dry land, and a lion is useless in the ocean.

This parallels with Global warming causing the polar ice-caps to melt and reducing the inhabitable land mass considerably. Eventually the sea is going to swallow the lion

Sure hope it evolves fins

[Brendan_Chipp]

Statistics show there's not-a-chance-in-hell your gonna die in an elevator - Hardly a leap of faith getting on one.

What about plane travel? They've been known to fall from time to time. I see plane travel as a major act of faith, and I've done a fair amount of flying.

[Zarathrustra]

What about plane travel? They've been known to fall from time to time. I see plane travel as a major act of faith, and I've done a fair amount of flying.

Yeah, but what are the odds.  Close enough to zero for all I care.  I do have faith in the engineering behind a plane, but it's hardly a leap of faith.

A major act of faith would be getting on a 70 year old unserviced plane, with a hamster as the pilot, and expecting not to die cos I prayed to god..

[Brendan_Chipp]

This parallels with Global warming causing the polar ice-caps to melt and reducing the inhabitable land mass considerably. Eventually the sea is going to swallow the lion

Sure hope it evolves fins

You are the faith master, hoping that the lion will evolve into a sea creature, with fins. Sure hope these fins magically appear pretty quick. Oh I forgot, this type of evolution would take thousands of years. You should teach them to use a snorkle before then.

In my travels, the most dogmatic and close minded people I've come accross are the staunch athiests. They put most spiritual folk to shame with their devotion to their religion.

[Brendan_Chipp]

Yeah, but what are the odds.  Close enough to zero for all i care.  I do have faith in the engineering behind a plane, but it's hardly a leap of faith.

Noone said anything about a "leap" of faith. By boarding the plane, you excercise faith, and a confidence that you will arrive safely at your designation. Your confidence is based around trust that the airline staff have fulfilled their duties properly. You have no evidence that this has happened, so boarding that plane is an act of faith.

A major act of faith would be getting on a 70 year old unserviced plane, with a hamster as the pilot, and expecting not to die cos I prayed to god..

No, that is a major act of stupidity, and a hamster wouldn't know how to take off, so you'd be safe.

[BerG]

Haha Tiwa just owned big time.

[cobra]

I dont think you can compare faith of a plane flying with faith in god - planes exist - you can see them, see them fly and fly on them - god doesn't exist - faith in a god is just "if you think there is a god, then you think there is a god"


off topic

This parallels with Global warming causing the polar ice-caps to melt and reducing the inhabitable land mass considerably. Eventually the sea is going to swallow the lion

Sure hope it evolves fins

The sea isn't going to rise because of the melting of the icecaps - it is going to rise due to the thermal expansion of water

[Brendan_Chipp]

Haha Tiwa just owned big time.

How so? Care to dazzle us with your intellect? Dazzle away. :bounce:

[Brendan_Chipp]

. . . god doesn't exist . . .

How do you know? It's impossible to make a factual statement like that. You should have said "I believe god doesn't exist". That's correct, but you do not know that "god doesn't exist".

[Zarathrustra]

How do you know? It's impossible to make a factual statement like that. You should have said "I believe god doesn't exist". That's correct, but you do not know that "god doesn't exist".

And you don't know that he does. No one does - so why believe he/she/it does?

Enough of this un-winnable argument anyway - i give up for a while.



Cobra - Doesn't water expand when it's frozen, so it's more of a thermal contraction?

[BerG]

How so? Care to dazzle us with your intellect? Dazzle away. :bounce:

Because he owned whatever the old fool told you.

In the future (when the sea level rises) the shark (science) will own the lion (religion).

BTW, your pitiful neg rep has no effect on me youngling.

[BerG]

Water is most dense at 4 degree's, expanding at any other temp rise/drop.

[Brendan_Chipp]

Because he owned whatever the old fool told you.

How so? In the part that the land will become water, or in the part that he hopes the lion will grow fins?

BTW, your pitiful neg rep has no effect on me youngling.

Youngling, lol. Thanks, you're good for a laugh.