Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline DooleysMagic

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Quote from: Brendan_Chipp;379556
Who said I had evidence of the existance of God? Where did I claim this?


You didn't but you do believe in him. The only people I know who have imaginary friends are 5 yearolds and people in institutes.

Reply #1625 Posted: April 02, 2007, 10:55:01 pm
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Offline cobra

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Mr Chipp

in all seriousness, have you written off the existence of Santa, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny?
If you have how does this differ from god?

Reply #1626 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:01:14 pm

Offline Brendan_Chipp

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Quote from: Zarathrustra;379588
That comment I respect.  But can you see it the other way too?

Yes I understand if folks do not accept the existance of "God". I spent most of my life there, until I opened my mind to the possibility.
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Why believe in anything without full knowledge of the universe? Is that not equally as foolish?

Respectfully no, and here's why I think so - we will never have "full knowledge of the universe", and until then, how wise is it to catagorically deny the existance of God?

Like I said, I'm a live and let live kinda guy. I have mates who are athiests, buddists and two who are Muslims. I respect their beliefs, so long as they don't try to force their beliefs onto me. There's been some interesting BBQs on my back deck, but there's no animosity.

What do I believe? I believe in God. I beleive in angels and demons. I believe the universe is more than one dimensional. I believe in a universe teeming with life, in whatever form that might be. I believe we are a purposeful part of that universe and humanity will one day interact with other species from other parts of the universe. I believe in a spirit life, and something that transends the natural world we can see, touch and smell. I believe spirituality burns within the core of our very being.

Yes, I believe, but if you asked me to show evidence of a universe teeming with life, I cannot produce any, yet I still believe. To some I am the fool, but I'll still sleep well tonight. :)

Reply #1627 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:05:00 pm

Offline Brendan_Chipp

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Quote from: Simon_NZ;379596
ITS NOT FAITH NOOB!

ITS A FACT THAT WINGS GENERATE LIFT!

ITS NOT FAITH! ITS JUST FACT!

No need for shouting or insults. You have one understanding, and I have another.

It's a fact that planes crash and people die. You trust the airline's staff that they have performed their tasks properly, when you board a plane. Whether you like it or not, you're excercising trust/confidence.

Faith : confidence or trust in a person or thing

Reply #1628 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:10:46 pm

Offline cobra

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maybe if they had said blind faith instead of religious faith

Reply #1629 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:13:21 pm

Offline Brendan_Chipp

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Quote from: DooleysMagic;379598
You didn't but you do believe in him. The only people I know who have imaginary friends are 5 yearolds and people in institutes.

More insults. There's no need for childish insults, or claiming that anyone who has faith in God is somehow intellectually demented.

Do you believe there is life elsewhere in the universe?

Reply #1630 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:13:27 pm

Offline dirtyape

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Quote from: Brendan_Chipp;379390
Faith is faith. There's not a special religious faith that's different from normal faith. Faith is faith and faith is simply a noun, an action.

Quote from: Brendan_Chipp;379576
That's my point, we all have and use this thing called faith, whether we know it or not.

Why are you even talking about faith? Faith has nothing to do with this discusson. Faith in GOD does, or faith in science does - providing you actually have something relevant to say about either - but faith itself though..? It's irrelevant. I may as well talk about the letter E - science has two, and religion has one. Does it matter in any way shape or form?

All you are doing is wasting our time by discussing it.


Quote from: Brendan_Chipp;379576
I guess when you get on in life you realise that we as humans know sweet stuff nothing all about the universe we inhabit. The older I get, the issues I thought were black and white are now shades of grey. In some ways I slightly envy those who think they have a grasp on a subject such as this. I'm not writing anything off, and included in that is the possible existance of an entity known as God. To do so, without full knowledge of the universe, is in my opinion very foolish.

One thing you can be sure of - the bible contains a serious amount of garbage. Does that mean that the christian description of god doesn't exist? From my perspective, its a defintate yes.

Does it mean that there is no chance of "god" existing at all? No - it just means that the christians are believing in fairy tales and that modern man hasn't worked out what god really is yet.

Reply #1631 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:25:44 pm
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Offline Brendan_Chipp

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Quote from: DooleysMagic;379590
. . . Pity they didn't have this faith thing your talking about either.

Surely all they needed was your so called evidence -
Quote from: DooleysMagic;379590

I sure as hell do have evidence that the plane will not crash and kill me.

I bet your "evidence" would have looked a bit thin if you were on that plane that crashed. :(

Reply #1632 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:26:57 pm

Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: cobra;379478
The sea isn't going to rise because of the melting of the icecaps - it is going to rise due to the thermal expansion of water

Quote from: BerG;379501
Water is most dense at 4 degree's, expanding at any other temp rise/drop.

Hehehe. I was only meaning the ice caps melting and causing a flood due to rising sea levels as a joke. Of course I know that it is in-fact thermal expansion. The two biggest Global Warming myths are: Ice melting causes the flooding and "Global warming will cause a second ice age!"

On a side note: Clouds are formed with flat bottoms due to the molecular weight of water being 18 whereas that of oxygen/nitrogen being 23. Thusly the clouds sit ontop of the warm layers of air. They are lumpy ontop due to the constant evapouration/condensation effect.
Quote from: cobra;379510
i have a nephew who finds the idea of an imaginary friend (which i can not disprove) helps him out and that's fine - but like god his friend can never impact on anything.

Introduce him to Calvin and Hobbes! I love that cartoon
Quote from: Zarathrustra;379588
That comment I respect.  But can you see it the other way too?  Why believe in anything without full knowledge of the universe? Is that not equally as foolish?

Thus Spake Zarathrustra

(I was going to write more but its late and Im tired)

Reply #1633 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:30:37 pm
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Offline Brendan_Chipp

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Quote from: dirtyape;379635
Why are you even talking about faith? Faith has nothing to do with this discusson.

Faith was raised in an image posted by someone, which I responded to.
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All you are doing is wasting our time by discussing it.

And yet you had to reply.
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. . . From my perspective . . .

Yes, our perspective is always limited by our experience and understanding. From my perspective things probably look different than your perspective. That's quite ok. We have different life experiences and understandings. Folks can see things from different perspectives. The universe allows this and we all don't have to think/believe the same way. :)

Reply #1634 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:32:05 pm

Offline DooleysMagic

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Quote from: Brendan_Chipp;379638
Surely all they needed was your so called evidence -

I bet your "evidence" would have looked a bit thin if you were on that plane that crashed. :(


There is a difference between being %100 safe and having evidence that you have 50+ billion to 1 chance of a fatal plane crash. Here I'll make another analogy the chances of winning 1'st division lottery are let's just say 1 million to 1, now I have no faith at all in winning the lottery because the chance of that happening are so small just like they are for being in a fatal plane crash.

And about the "childish insult", just because more than one person says it's real doesn't mean it is.  And I do beleive in the possibilty of life somewhere other than earth for the simple fact of humans being on Earth. Thats evidence enough for me to believe in the possibility of there being other forms of life elsewhere.

Reply #1635 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:38:21 pm
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Offline Brendan_Chipp

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Quote from: cobra;379605
in all seriousness, have you written off the existence of Santa, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny?

No, because last Christmas I was Santa Clause. Got into the costume and did the whole present thing for my kids and some nephews and nieces. Now the tooth fairy - that's a tricky one. One day I'll catch the bugger for nicking my kid's teeth and only leaving 20 cents behind. :D
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If you have how does this differ from god?

How so? Because we know Santa's not real then somehow this equates to God not being real? I'm not following your line of thought.

Do you believe in the existance of life in the universe other than on planet earth?

Reply #1636 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:39:53 pm

Offline dirtyape

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The idea of my post was to get you stfu about faith, to nip it in the butt, to make you realise how pointless your comments really are. As is your comment about perspective - i need no lession in perspective - i wrote the fucken post and i chose my words carefully.

Do you actually have anything to contribute apart from mindless dribble?

Reply #1637 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:45:21 pm
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Offline Brendan_Chipp

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Quote from: DooleysMagic;379658
And about the "childish insult", just because more than one person says it's real doesn't mean it is.

It doesn't mean it's not real too. I personally know some incredibly intelligent people who believe in the existance of God. These are university professors, engineers, pilots. You name it, they believe in God and they're waaaaaay smarter than me.
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And I do beleive in the possibilty of life somewhere other than earth for the simple fact of humans being on Earth. Thats evidence enough for me to believe in the possibility of there being other forms of life elsewhere.

So you've never seen or have evidence of life existing elsewhere in the universe, other than life exists on earth, so it should exist on other planets?

IMO that's a fair statement too. It's also pretty logical that if earth was seeded with life, that other planets could be too, in possibly the same process, whatever that process was. There's no evidence that proves this is such, but it's a reasonable assumption to make, imo.

Reply #1638 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:45:42 pm

Offline Brendan_Chipp

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Quote from: dirtyape;379663
The idea of my post was to get you stfu about faith, to nip it in the butt, to make you realise how pointless your comments really are. As is your comment about perspective - i need no lession in perspective - i wrote the fucken post and i chose my words carefully.

Do you actually have anything to contribute apart from mindless dribble?

It seems you do indeed need a lesson in perspective and tolerance. I guess other perspectives other than your own are just plain wrong. You're free to voice your opinions anyway you see fit. I won't lose any sleep over them, nor will I respond with insults.

Reply #1639 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:52:01 pm

Offline DooleysMagic

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Quote from: dirtyape;379663
The idea of my post was to get you stfu about faith, to nip it in the butt, to make you realise how pointless your comments really are. As is your comment about perspective - i need no lession in perspective - i wrote the fucken post and i chose my words carefully.

Do you actually have anything to contribute apart from mindless dribble?



Come to think of it you're right as usual Dirty Ape, Mr Chipp whether you can prove people who don't believe in a god have faith in their day to day lives is irrelevant. If you proved those people did, it would not have anything to do with God existing or not.

Good Day... well for the Faith debate anyway :sunnies:

Reply #1640 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:53:56 pm
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Offline dirtyape

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i have not said you are wrong, i have said it is dribble, it is mouthing of words which are unneccessary and the only service that they provide is to polute this thread. Your opinion is yours mine is mine, etc - thats just so absolutely obvious that saying it is unneccessary. I think you just like to hear yourself speak.

:spam:

Reply #1641 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:57:42 pm
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that they are difficult to verify." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Brendan_Chipp

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Quote from: DooleysMagic;379681
Mr Chipp whether you can prove people who don't believe in a god have faith in their day to day lives is irrelevant. If you proved those people did, it would not have anything to do with God existing or not.

Of course not. I never said it does prove the existance of God. Someone mentioned faith in an image they posted, and I responded to that, and as threads go, here we be.

As you were, whatever that was. :D

Reply #1642 Posted: April 02, 2007, 11:59:45 pm

Offline Simon_NZ

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Reply #1643 Posted: April 03, 2007, 12:03:51 am

Offline Brendan_Chipp

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Quote from: dirtyape;379688
i have not said you are wrong, i have said it is dribble, it is mouthing of words which are unneccessary and the only service that they provide is to polute this thread. Your opinion is yours mine is mine, etc - thats just so absolutely obvious that saying it is unneccessary. I think you just like to hear yourself speak.

Naaah, I'm just trying to answer everyone's questions and comments. I do enjoy this type of interaction occassionally. I don't do this much, well, these days hardly at all. But we all know that too much of this type of discussion is equivilant to repeatedly slamming your testicals in a car door. :D

Although I do like to hear myself sing though. I do a mean Jimmy Barnes. :bounce:

Reply #1644 Posted: April 03, 2007, 12:04:07 am

Offline BerG

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;379647


On a side note: Clouds are formed with flat bottoms due to the molecular weight of water being 18 whereas that of oxygen/nitrogen being 23. Thusly the clouds sit ontop of the warm layers of air. They are lumpy ontop due to the constant evapouration/condensation effect.



They dont necessarily sit on the warm layers of air.

Clouds are formed by one thing, warm air (which can hold a lot of water) cooling down until it eventually cant hold all that water and it condenses. It doesn't have to be cold, if the air is holding a lot of water it wont have to rise much to condense.

It can cool adiabatically with thermal rising or orographic lifting etc. (West coast of South island always cloudy and rainy)

A dont know what you're talking about with this molecular stuff, but each parcel of air will have the same properties. So if one parcel rises, its going to condense at the same time as its buddies, so the cloud has a flat bottom.

They are lumpy on top due to to warm rising air pushing some parts up more than others.

The updraughts in some towering cumulonimbus are strong enough to hold up hailstones the size of coconuts before dropping them.

Reply #1645 Posted: April 03, 2007, 08:45:18 am

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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I thought clouds were made from candy floss, and the moon made from cheese.

Reply #1646 Posted: April 03, 2007, 08:54:52 am

Offline GoatSlayer

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Quote from: BerG;379870
They dont necessarily sit on the warm layers of air.

Clouds are formed by one thing, warm air (which can hold a lot of water) cooling down until it eventually cant hold all that water and it condenses. It doesn't have to be cold, if the air is holding a lot of water it wont have to rise much to condense.

It can cool adiabatically with thermal rising or orographic lifting etc. (West coast of South island always cloudy and rainy)

A dont know what you're talking about with this molecular stuff, but each parcel of air will have the same properties. So if one parcel rises, its going to condense at the same time as its buddies, so the cloud has a flat bottom.

They are lumpy on top due to to warm rising air pushing some parts up more than others.

The updraughts in some towering cumulonimbus are strong enough to hold up hailstones the size of coconuts before dropping them.


Fuck even I understood that. You should write a clouds for dummies book.

Reply #1647 Posted: April 03, 2007, 08:58:36 am

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Offline Arnifix

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Please excuse me while I fetch the neighbours dog so he can tear out my jugular as he is wont to do. Then we can resolve this dispute one way or the other. Either way, I'll be better for it.

Reply #1648 Posted: April 03, 2007, 09:12:40 am

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: BerG;379870
Clouds are formed by one thing, warm air (which can hold a lot of water) cooling down until it eventually cant hold all that water and it condenses. It doesn't have to be cold, if the air is holding a lot of water it wont have to rise much to condense.

I said "Clouds are formed with flat bottoms" not "Clouds are formed BY flat bottoms"

Because the molecular weight of water is 18 and that of di-atomic oxygen/nitrogen are 28 and 32, dry air is obviously denser than wet air which flots above it. This forms the flat boundary between the denser dry air below and the less dense wet air above

Anyway. Im trying to write a reply to something else

Reply #1649 Posted: April 03, 2007, 09:15:52 am
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