Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Fragin]

No, you're wrong.

If the bible was never written, God could still exist, people could still believe in God. The people who wrote the bible already believed God existed before they started writing the bible, not the other way round.


The fast is, many Christians know the book of Genesis is a creation myth, yet they still believe in God. The bible is not a requirement to believe in God, no religious text is, and how 'true' those religious texts are have no bearing on whether a god exists or not. Remember, all religious texts are written by humans.

And i've stated many time I believe the book of Genesis is a creation myth, A myth! How can you prove a myth wrong?

That's like proving Lord of the Rings is a fiction book.

Don't focus on the 'as written' part of what i stated above. It doesn't matter if it's written down or sung in a song, it's the story that counts. You can't go up to somebody and say "God created the world." "Uh huh. Cool." (well some people you can....). You need a story to go with it.

God is the story. The story is god. You can't walk down queen st on friday night without getting it thrust in your face. The bible and 'God' are inseparable bedfellows. The fortunes of one are the fortunes of the other.


I know that many Christians view Genesis as fiction yet they still believe in god. They've got themselves a wee problem. It's interesting watching them try to resolve it. I wrote a bit about that many pages ago.

When I say 'myth' I mean in the technical sense. I'm not making a call true or false when I use that word.




Away with ur spam Berg. We didn't get to 36 pages by spamming it up now did we!

[Phlex]

In my opinion,after reading this thread;i see god as a figment of peoples imagination.
Someone to look up to when things get shit,someone to call on to inspire hope and fortitude.But then what if I'm wrong and God is real and is right now looking upon us all laughing as we ponder wether he is real or just an image.

[Fragin]

after reading this thread;

the whole thing? i call bs. :sly:

[Spork]

If there was no superior being who created what ever we were first. Then how the fuck did we come into existence?

(Yes I admit theres no way in hell that I'm going to read all 21 pages so feel free to ignore me)

[Black Heart]

it depends on your definition of god. to most god is the creator. and the creator has interest in us. (those themes run consistantly in every religion I think)

All civilisations have records of a or many gods. we consider all of those gods that are prechristian to be mythical.

There could be a creator entity that simply started the universe and has no concern at all for humans. I doubt we'd consider that a god either, as if it's not all about us, then why would we care/worship (human nature)

Also the caring about us/our souls in afterlife thats a big issue for a god, if they want us to worship them.

[ThaFleastyler]

Flea - your last post was a waste of the internet - Saying that the person who is arguing the same non-points as you is right, shot buddy - then a whole pile of quotes from the bible - another strong blow against science - nice work

My bringing up other imaginary beings is that i can not understand how you people decide which fictitious monsters you believe in - what is your decision process when you decide god exists but only crazies believe in the Mexican big foot? - why accept one supernatural being with no evidence but not another?

Firstly, I'm pretty sure you'll find that anyone with an ounce of sense wouldn't refer to any big foot, Mexican or otherwise, as a supernatural being - the correct term is cryptozoological, a category that also includes many animals that we know for a fact do exist.

Secondly, please try and make sense. I'm personally sick of people like yourself who say church is just for crazies. As I've mentioned before, the fact that over a billion people worldwide believe in God, with many more subscribing to other religions, clearly rules out religion being a cause for psychos, paedophiles or any other kind of crazy person. Common sense alone states that the ratio of crazy people is far lower than one out of 6. So STFU.

[Phlex]

the whole thing? i call bs. :sly:

Heh you get bored at tech when your tutors suck:asian:

[Brendan_Chipp]

No, I was saying that if we had time travel and a way to observe so we could observe the beginnings of everything, and things naturally becoming, from nothing to something, then we could prove the non existence of god.

Ahhhhh, the old if only I had a time machine, oh what wonderous joy that would bring.

Unless of course we observe some old guy with a beard standing there molding planets out of clay.

lol, too much Star Trek for you I see. :bounce:

[Brendan_Chipp]

Secondly, please try and make sense. I'm personally sick of people like yourself who say church is just for crazies. As I've mentioned before, the fact that over a billion people worldwide believe in God, with many more subscribing to other religions, clearly rules out religion being a cause for psychos, paedophiles or any other kind of crazy person. Common sense alone states that the ratio of crazy people is far lower than one out of 6. So STFU.

hehe, I have a little chuckle when that tired old rheteric is dusted off and trotted out. I then think of a Professor I know, and his many academic and social accomplishments, who has a deep faith in God. I then think, hey, some know it all kid in a forum is calling you a loonie, saying you need to be hospitalised in an insane ward because you have this faith in God. Makes me laugh. These threads are at times a source of entertainment, more than anything else. :chuckle:

[Brendan_Chipp]

In my opinion . . .

Bingo. When all is said and done, when all the dust has settled, that's all we have, opinions and understandings based on our life experience/knowledge and the knowledge of others. Noone here can claim to be above this, or speak for truth or what is right and wrong.

Science V religion - it's a no contest. The shark cannot fight the Lion and the Lion cannot fight the shark. The conflict arises when a shark is on dry land, and the Lion is in the ocean.

[cobra]

Secondly, please try and make sense. I'm personally sick of people like yourself who say church is just for crazies. As I've mentioned before, the fact that over a billion people worldwide believe in God, with many more subscribing to other religions, clearly rules out religion being a cause for psychos, paedophiles or any other kind of crazy person. Common sense alone states that the ratio of crazy people is far lower than one out of 6. So STFU.

I am just talking about christan religions and their off shoots when i talk about pedophiles, because they have a bad track record, other religions that don't oppress natural sexual urges dont have such a bad history

if my definition of crazies is people who talk to make believe monsters then the church is just for crazies - you think it is normal and are wrong

[Brendan_Chipp]

. . . if my definition of crazies is people who talk to make believe monsters then the church is just for crazies - you think it is normal and are wrong

So you define the act of prayer as a sign of "crazies"?

Just out of interest, how old are you?

[cobra]

hehe, I have a little chuckle when that tired old rheteric is dusted off and trotted out. I then think of a Professor I know, and his many academic and social accomplishments, who has a deep faith in God. I then think, hey, some know it all kid in a forum is calling you a loonie, saying you need to be hospitalised in an insane ward because you have this faith in God. Makes me laugh. These threads are at times a source of entertainment, more than anything else. :chuckle:

I know more Professors who don't believe in god then you will ever know

You and flea are both ignoring (probably willfully) my point - how does your star fairy differ from Santa Claus - all your points about god can be made about anything that doesn't exist

[Phlex]

People keep saying "You obviously don't see my point", but as others have already stated;
what any single person says in this thread won't make two shits off a difference as no-one
really knows shit about this god many believe in.

So really those of you who think they know,you don't and those that express an opinion about it without actually stating IT IS , are the ones more to listen to as they don't bitch about whose right and who isn't.

[Simon_NZ]

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[BerG]

How did the superior being come into existance?

[Fragin]

Bingo. When all is said and done, when all the dust has settled, that's all we have, opinions and understandings based on our life experience/knowledge and the knowledge of others. Noone here can claim to be above this, or speak for truth or what is right and wrong.

All just theories eh? This is classic conservative religious speak and they use it to try and discredit the role of science in public opinion. Try putting your finger in a power socket and you might see if science is able to speak for 'truth'.

Science V religion - it's a no contest. The shark cannot fight the Lion and the Lion cannot fight the shark. The conflict arises when a shark is on dry land, and the Lion is in the ocean.

Not to some people. They see science as a direct affront to their beliefs.

[Phlex]

Rofl Simon

[Brendan_Chipp]

I know more Professors who don't believe in god then you will ever know

You and flea are both ignoring (probably willfully) my point - how does your star fairy differ from Santa Claus - all your points about god can be made about anything that doesn't exist

When you have something intelligent to say, I'll comment. Until then, troll away.

[Simon_NZ]

It is true, please explain the difference the difference between belief in god and belief in the tooth fairy.

[Brendan_Chipp]

All just theories eh? This is classic conservative religious speak and they use it to try and discredit the role of science in public opinion.

Ohhhhh, now there's a supposed battle for "public opinion". Gotcha.

Try putting your finger in a power socket and you might see if science is able to speak for 'truth'.

Not sure what electrocuting oneself will prove here. You're more than willing to give it a shot, and report back here with the result.

Not to some people. They see science as a direct affront to their beliefs.

And yet some see religion as a direct affront to their beliefs.

As for me, I see no conflict. I love science and love pulling things apart to see how they work. It's human nature to be curious, and to want to know. I've heard it said that the scientific theories of today will be mocked by the children of coming generations, but we still need to push on and increase our knowledge and understanding of the universe in which we inhabit.

[(BHP)Clyock]

As for me, I see no conflict. I love science and love pulling things apart to see how they work. It's human nature to be curious, and to want to know. I've heard it said that the scientific theories of today will be mocked by the children of coming generations, but we still need to push on and increase our knowledge and understanding of the universe in which we inhabit.

To see a conflict between science and religion all you have to do is look at raging debate in the US over Evolution vs Intelligent Design and which should be taught in schools to the exclusion to the other.

[Brendan_Chipp]

It is true, please explain the difference the difference between belief in god and belief in the tooth fairy.

Both require faith. When I was a child I believed in childish things. Every culture has them - Santa Clause, the tooth fairy, honest politicians. Now I am an adult (39) I put away those childish things.

I know there's a lot of young folks around here - most probably students and young people in their early 20s, and during that stage of development, everything still seems black and white. It's only when they leave their parent/'s nest and start their own families (get a job, get married or not, have children, buy/rent a house etc) do they realise the world is not so black and white, and shades of grey become quite common.

Simon, do you believe in the existance of life beyond our planet? If so, do you have scientific proof to back your belief? If you have no scientific proof, why do you believe? How can you believe in that which you cannot see or scientifically validate?

[Brendan_Chipp]

To see a conflict between science and religion all you have to do is look at raging debate in the US over Evolution vs Intelligent Design and which should be taught in schools to the exclusion to the other.

Kinda thought that was all but over, given the rulings from the courts and all. I haven't been keeping up with such issues of late. I'm not sure the ID folks were looking for "exclusion to the other". I thought they were seeking inclusion, with ID being taught along side the theory of evolution.

Me personally, I don't agree with the ID movement. That to me is putting the Lion into the ocean. Science should be kept as science, and religion should be kept as relgion. Both play an important role in society, and a fully functioning free and open society couldn't exist without both.

[Simon_NZ]

Simon, do you believe in the existance of life beyond our planet? If so, do you have scientific proof to back your belief? If you have no scientific proof, why do you believe? How can you believe in that which you cannot see or scientifically validate?

Yes I do.

I think it is statistically impossible that out of the billions upon billions of planets that one does not support sentient life.

Nothing to do with faith mate. It's pure reason.