Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline Zarathrustra

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Quote from: Bell;387250
Fear shouldn't be a part of it.
Fear is one of the biggest driving forces behind religion.

Fear of Judgment
Fear of Shame
Fear of Divine Punishment

And most of all, Fear of Mortality.

Reply #2000 Posted: April 11, 2007, 08:18:29 pm

Offline Bell

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Quote from: Zarathrustra;387375
And most of all, Fear of Mortality.[/QUOTE



So true.

Reply #2001 Posted: April 11, 2007, 10:50:26 pm

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: krasher;386644

For me, I know there is a God. I have experienced and seen things that remove any doubt in my mind that there is something more out there than just what we can see.


such as?

Reply #2002 Posted: April 11, 2007, 11:28:56 pm


Offline cobra

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Quote from: TofuEater;387328
According to TV3 news tonight, religion beats science because NZ's oldest woman died at 113. I think it was her doctor who reckoned that she'd lived so long because she said her prayers every day - LOL.


pah, what about all those christian cults that don’t allow medicine, just prayer - I think you will find that science pwns religion when it comes to keeping people alive

Reply #2003 Posted: April 12, 2007, 12:24:10 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: cobra;387977
pah, what about all those christian cults that don’t allow medicine, just prayer - I think you will find that science pwns religion when it comes to keeping people alive

Really? Apparently Noah lived till he was over 900 years old with no help from science whatsoever.

:D

Edit: I meant that in a funny way. But on a serious note, there are many reports of the power of prayer bringing miraculous healing or even bringing people back to life - in fact, there is a TV show that plays on Shine TV that documents such cases. I guess my point is, this is veering away from the original argument again.

Reply #2004 Posted: April 12, 2007, 12:29:26 pm

Offline cobra

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;387981
.... in fact, there is a TV show that plays on Shine TV that documents such cases. .....


There is a documentary about how they have recreated dinosaurs from D.N.A from mosquitoes, but they got out of control and started killing people.... They will be making up a lot of the stuff in that show

There was a scientific experiment where they had three groups of sick people (cancer i think), one group got no prayers, one got prayers and didn't know, and one group got prayers and did know - No difference between the one with prayers and one without - but more people died who knew they were being prayed for (from Richard Dawkins book)

Reply #2005 Posted: April 12, 2007, 12:54:37 pm

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: cobra;387991
There is a documentary about how they have recreated dinosaurs from D.N.A from mosquitoes, but they got out of control and started killing people.... They will be making up a lot of the stuff in that show


jurrasic park?

Reply #2006 Posted: April 12, 2007, 01:13:31 pm


Offline dirtyape

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;387981
Edit: I meant that in a funny way. But on a serious note, there are many reports of the power of prayer bringing miraculous healing or even bringing people back to life - in fact, there is a TV show that plays on Shine TV that documents such cases. I guess my point is, this is veering away from the original argument again.

"What the bleep do we know: further down the rabbit hole" may be pop physics and over dramatic, but it did mention that prayer and positive thought can impact your reality. So, praying is good, but it's not because some intelligent diety is listening.

As with all meta-physics - I remain skeptical

Reply #2007 Posted: April 12, 2007, 01:15:18 pm
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that they are difficult to verify." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline dirtyape

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Reply #2008 Posted: April 12, 2007, 01:17:30 pm
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that they are difficult to verify." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline krasher

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Quote from: KiLL3r;387516
such as?

Things I have experienced or seen that make me believe there is something/someone out there...

This almost deserves its own thread.

I have on several occasions felt God's love for me so strongly and tangible that it pales every other experience I have ever had.

I have seen - and I am not talking in a big show or stadium - a persons leg get prayed for (as it was shorter than the other) and grow six inches longer. And another on a different occasion (and person) a leg grow 2 inches longer - and I am not talking about his middle leg.

I have had somebody pray for me and felt the bones in my body move and straiten and a tingling sensation that moved through my body as I was prayed for. Sounds crazy huh - It wasn't what I expected at all.

There are many others but less tangible and harder to explain. They are some experiences that I can personally vouch for. I understand the power of the mind to conjure up what it wants and needs and these are examples that I believe are not conjured up by my or anybody else's mind.

I am sure there are other examples of miracles pwn science. Anybody else brave enough to share some?

Reply #2009 Posted: April 12, 2007, 02:12:30 pm
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Offline Bell

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My girlfriend once got down on her knees and with her magicals powers made something grow 6 inches longer right infront of my eyes!

Reply #2010 Posted: April 12, 2007, 02:28:04 pm

Offline dirtyape

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Krasher, why do you believe that it is a christian god that made the things you describe happen?

Is it because you can concieve of no other explanation?

Reply #2011 Posted: April 12, 2007, 02:32:01 pm
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that they are difficult to verify." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Bell

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Reply #2012 Posted: April 12, 2007, 02:39:06 pm

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: krasher;388095
Things I have experienced or seen that make me believe there is something/someone out there...

This almost deserves its own thread.

I have on several occasions felt God's love for me so strongly and tangible that it pales every other experience I have ever had.

I have seen - and I am not talking in a big show or stadium - a persons leg get prayed for (as it was shorter than the other) and grow six inches longer. And another on a different occasion (and person) a leg grow 2 inches longer - and I am not talking about his middle leg.

I have had somebody pray for me and felt the bones in my body move and straiten and a tingling sensation that moved through my body as I was prayed for. Sounds crazy huh - It wasn't what I expected at all.

There are many others but less tangible and harder to explain. They are some experiences that I can personally vouch for. I understand the power of the mind to conjure up what it wants and needs and these are examples that I believe are not conjured up by my or anybody else's mind.

I am sure there are other examples of miracles pwn science. Anybody else brave enough to share some?


so you say you saw a man leg grow six inches in front of your eyes? So why has this never been caught on video?

Sound like a load of bs to me.

Quote from: Bell;388109
My girlfriend once got down on her knees and with her magicals powers made something grow 6 inches longer right infront of my eyes!


only thing you have ever posted that i have lol'd at, gj

Reply #2013 Posted: April 12, 2007, 04:33:29 pm


Offline krasher

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Think what you like, I have seen what I have seen. You wouldn't believe a video anyway. It's the kind of thing you have to see with you own eyes or experience for yourself.

Reply #2014 Posted: April 12, 2007, 05:08:47 pm
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Offline krasher

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Quote from: dirtyape;388116
Krasher, why do you believe that it is a christian god that made the things you describe happen?

Is it because you can concieve of no other explanation?
As I said earlier...it's the best I have so far. Given the context it made/makes the most sense. It may be possible that Buddha answers prayers that are prayed to the Christian God but I am not sure that it's his style. Fair question though, but given the context it is a logical conclusion IMHO. Also, I think my point was more that it wasn't science that answered the prayers. Just trying to keep to the whole Science V's Religion theme.

Soz about double post.

Reply #2015 Posted: April 12, 2007, 05:11:51 pm
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Offline KiLL3r

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where did u see this leg growing 6 inches?

Reply #2016 Posted: April 12, 2007, 05:23:06 pm


Offline dirtyape

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Quote from: krasher;388270
As I said earlier...it's the best I have so far. Given the context it made/makes the most sense. It may be possible that Buddha answers prayers that are prayed to the Christian God but I am not sure that it's his style. Fair question though, but given the context it is a logical conclusion IMHO. Also, I think my point was more that it wasn't science that answered the prayers. Just trying to keep to the whole Science V's Religion theme.

Soz about double post.


Why must it be spiritual at all? I see no proof of divine intervention.

When your spine is out of alignment it sometimes (always?) causes a tilt in the hips. This tilt causes one leg to be longer and the other to be shorter. If your hips were 3 inches out of alignment then you would have serious back problems and i imagine you would be unable to walk.

My feet were out by about an inch once and i was in agony.

I would talk to a chiropracter about it, they'll have a much better idea about how common or uncommon what you seen is.

Reply #2017 Posted: April 12, 2007, 06:06:23 pm
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that they are difficult to verify." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline krasher

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Quote from: KiLL3r;388286
where did u see this leg growing 6 inches?


At a small church service held in a building at Auckland uni.

Quote from: dirtyape;388344
Why must it be spiritual at all? I see no proof of divine intervention.

When your spine is out of alignment it sometimes (always?) causes a tilt in the hips. This tilt causes one leg to be longer and the other to be shorter. If your hips were 3 inches out of alignment then you would have serious back problems and i imagine you would be unable to walk.

My feet were out by about an inch once and i was in agony.

That's probably why he wanted prayer.

There is no point me trying to prove to you it is real. I can really only believe it like I do because I saw it.

Reply #2018 Posted: April 12, 2007, 06:45:20 pm
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Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: krasher;388389
At a small church service held in a building at Auckland uni.


That's probably why he wanted prayer.

There is no point me trying to prove to you it is real. I can really only believe it like I do because I saw it.

the mind sees what it wants to believe

please explain in more detail about this leg. was it amutated or just 6 inches shorter than the other leg? Did he immediately get up and rush around or was he quickly taken away? How old was he? How close where you to the guy? Did you see it with your own eyes with obstruction?

Reply #2019 Posted: April 12, 2007, 07:43:21 pm


Offline Zarathrustra

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Why would god help some poor sob with a gamy leg, yet ignore the millions of people living in poverty, the victims of rape and murder, retarded children, people with Cancer, victims of genocide, etc etc...?

You may well have seen something you were led to believe was a miracle, but I highly doubt it was.  

But, if it was healing by divine power, then in my mind it's just more proof that if there is a god, then he's just a manipulative, power crazed, self deifying, vindictive cunt.

Reply #2020 Posted: April 12, 2007, 09:41:50 pm

Offline krasher

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I don't really want to argue about one thing. It is just one example that adds up to a bigger picture for me. Slightly different from yours by the sounds. It was a while ago. No mutilated from memory. A good 6-10inches shorter. I kept blinking cos I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The dude was right in front of me. There was only about 10 of us there.

The poor thing sucks yeah. It's a fair question, but it sounds like you have your answer. I don't understand God. I just know there is one and He does care even if He sits on His hands every now and then. Tzimtzum is worth reading about for that one.

Reply #2021 Posted: April 13, 2007, 01:47:36 am
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Offline TofuEater

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Reply #2022 Posted: April 13, 2007, 07:04:28 am
Quote from: Fran O\'Sullivan
The best thing about Finance Minister Bill English\'s latest Budget is that it does finally signal a much greater role for the private sector in the New Zealand economy. And another step along the way to extract this country from the political cul-de-sac in which Helen Clark\'s Labour Government parked us.

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Quote from: cobra;387977
pah, what about all those christian cults that don’t allow medicine, just prayer - I think you will find that science pwns religion when it comes to keeping people alive


There is a large difference between a cult and a religion, stop grouping them together. The actions of a cult shouldn't reflect on a religion, the same way the actions of one religion shouldn't reflect on other religions, and the same way the actions of a religion shouldn't reflect on all of humankind.

Reply #2023 Posted: April 13, 2007, 08:55:51 am

Offline Growler

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who would win a a Battle royal free for all?

PLACE YOUR BETS!



VS



VS



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VS


Reply #2024 Posted: April 13, 2007, 09:09:46 am
Think of me like Yoda,
but instead of being little and green,
I wear suits and I'm awesome.
I'm your bro - I'm Broda!