Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Yes Einstein was religious, i didn't quote anyone, just stated a fact.

Darwin was Agnostic.

Reply #2175 Posted: April 23, 2007, 07:46:41 pm

Offline BerG

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Einstein wasn't really religious.

He didn't praise Jesus or any of that crap did he?

I though he was religious in his own special way.

Reply #2176 Posted: April 23, 2007, 07:49:51 pm

Offline Zarathrustra

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Quote from: Einstein;399569
"Thus I came--despite the fact that I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true."
He was, like, a Genius.

Reply #2177 Posted: April 23, 2007, 07:52:35 pm

Offline Simon_NZ

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no he wasn't.

This quote from Einstein appears in Science, Philosophy, and Religion, A Symposium, published by the Conference on Science, Philosophy and Religion in Their Relation to the Democratic Way of Life, Inc., New York, 1941.

About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indocrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws.

The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive. However, I am also not a "Freethinker" in the usual sense of the word because I find that this is in the main an attitude nourished exclusively by an opposition against naive superstition. My feeling is insofar religious as I am imbued with the consciousness of the insuffiency of the human mind to understand deeply the harmony of the Universe which we try to formulate as "laws of nature." It is this consciousness and humility I miss in the Freethinker mentality. Sincerely yours, Albert Einstein.

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists," he replied, "not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."

Years later he expanded this in a letter …. "I can understand your aversion to the use of the term 'religion' to describe an emotional and psychological attitude which shows itself most clearly in Spinoza," he wrote. "[But] I have not found a better expression than 'religious' for the trust in the rational nature of reality that is, at least to a certain extent, accessible to human reason."

Reply #2178 Posted: April 23, 2007, 07:54:46 pm

Offline BerG

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And Einstein is always right.

Science wins.

Reply #2179 Posted: April 23, 2007, 07:57:05 pm

Offline Zarathrustra

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Quote from: BerG;399577
And Einstein is always right.

Except the speed of light may not be a constant. ;)

But we can't blame him for that.

Reply #2180 Posted: April 23, 2007, 07:59:24 pm

Offline Simon_NZ

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Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man.... In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive.

    — Letter to a child who asked if scientists pray, January 24, 1936; Einstein Archive 42-601

Reply #2181 Posted: April 23, 2007, 08:11:01 pm

Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: Zarathrustra;399571
He was, like, a Genius.

Quote from: BerG;399577
And Einstein is always right.

Quote from: Zarathrustra;399580
Except the speed of light may not be a constant. ;)

But we can't blame him for that.

In addition to Enstein's wrongness:
EPR Paradox
Black Holes
The Universal Constant

Reply #2182 Posted: April 23, 2007, 10:07:26 pm
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Offline hemihapuka

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:spacecraf  Martians came down from the heavens and rooted monkeys as an experiment and wallah you have Humans :t: .

But I believe that I have no idea how the universe was made and I'll always be right :chuckle: but leaning towards science :wizard:

Reply #2183 Posted: April 24, 2007, 12:45:38 am
The answer to this last question will determine whether you are drunk or not. Was Mickey Mouse a cat or a dog ?

Offline hemihapuka

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;395434
I've stopped smoking weed..


This is a just a question and not having a go at anyone but does it say in the Bible not to smoke weed ?

Some religions it's sweet to smoke weed ie ( Rastafarian ) and was just wandering as I know a few rastafarians and the are religous to the max but smoke a shitload of weed .

Reply #2184 Posted: April 24, 2007, 12:54:20 am
The answer to this last question will determine whether you are drunk or not. Was Mickey Mouse a cat or a dog ?

Offline GoatSlayer

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Homer Simpson: "My body is a temple" *smokes a stick of butter*

Reply #2185 Posted: April 24, 2007, 07:34:58 am

Quote
Q: What is a gentleman?
A: A man who can play the accordion, but doesn\'t.

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: hemihapuka;399843
This is a just a question and not having a go at anyone but does it say in the Bible not to smoke weed ?

Some religions it's sweet to smoke weed ie ( Rastafarian ) and was just wandering as I know a few rastafarians and the are religous to the max but smoke a shitload of weed .

No it doesn't say that. Just like it doesn't say not to smoke cigarrettes, do drugs, or drink. But they are all extremely bad for you. Which was my point.

Reply #2186 Posted: April 24, 2007, 07:38:24 am

Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: hemihapuka;399843
This is a just a question and not having a go at anyone but does it say in the Bible not to smoke weed ?

Some religions it's sweet to smoke weed ie ( Rastafarian ) and was just wandering as I know a few rastafarians and the are religous to the max but smoke a shitload of weed .

Rastafarians are different though. They use it during 'Reasonings' as an aid to enlightenment and closeness with Jah.

Not too sure about Chrisitianity though. Catholic's allow smoking and quite a few other denominations dont. I guess its depends on the strictness of morality, and with marijuana being illegal anything against the law could be considered immoral.

Like the Chinese envoy disallowing that cameraman from taking pictures

Reply #2187 Posted: April 24, 2007, 08:15:16 am
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Offline Arnifix

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Reply #2188 Posted: April 24, 2007, 08:17:23 am

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline cobra

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;399892
No it doesn't say that. Just like it doesn't say not to smoke cigarrettes, do drugs, or drink. But they are all extremely bad for you. Which was my point.


I love these sweeping statements with not much truth to them - A glass of red wine a day is good for you - science has come up with lots of drugs which save thousands of lives and i will take a paracetamol or aspirin quite often and have not seen any negative side effects

Reply #2189 Posted: April 24, 2007, 10:53:01 am

Offline Black Heart

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well the church encourages wine drinking, many years before scientists & doctors said it wasn't a bad thing. also the term 'doing drugs' doesn't really relate to paracetamol/aspirin unless your an 8 year old. Also breathing in asbestos dust wouldn't have you experiencing any negative side affects for 30 odd years. so your observations aren't all that relavent.

science has also come up with cocaine & heroine which has ruined many thousands of lives. that  A bomb was pretty scientific too. I don't think the science saves lives angle is all that shit hot.

Reply #2190 Posted: April 24, 2007, 11:39:31 am

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: cobra;399998
I love these sweeping statements with not much truth to them - A glass of red wine a day is good for you - science has come up with lots of drugs which save thousands of lives and i will take a paracetamol or aspirin quite often and have not seen any negative side effects

A glass of wine a day isn't bad for you, but a bottle or two a day is. One cigarrette may not kill you, but smoking 35 a day for years and years probably will. Snorting a line of speed probably won't kill you, but the chance of death goes up exponentially when it comes to excessive use. I guess some people don't have the mental capacity to pick up implication in forum posts.

The Bible doesn't talk specifically about these things, but it does talk about treating your body as a temple. implying that it would be bad to destroy it. Excessive drug and alcohol intake will destroy your body, its a fact. So when I say that I don't use drugs or drink, I mean I don't use hard drugs (like speed, heroin, coke, etc) or drink to the point of drunkiness. Me, you, or anyone, would have to be an idiot to say something as universally stupid as "paracetemol is bad for you and anti-God". Thats just f*cking ridiculous.

I guess I'm trying to say: think first, then type.

Reply #2191 Posted: April 24, 2007, 11:46:50 am

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: Black Heart;400047
well the church encourages wine drinking, many years before scientists & doctors said it wasn't a bad thing. also the term 'doing drugs' doesn't really relate to paracetamol/aspirin unless your an 8 year old. Also breathing in asbestos dust wouldn't have you experiencing any negative side affects for 30 odd years. so your observations aren't all that relavent.

science has also come up with cocaine & heroine which has ruined many thousands of lives. that  A bomb was pretty scientific too. I don't think the science saves lives angle is all that shit hot.

Exactly, I think if one thing is also clear, science has done as much harm as good. Similarly, things that have been done in the name of God have also done as much harm as good. For every person who sponsors a child through World Vision or donates time to other religious charities, theres a person who will kill in the name of "God".

Reply #2192 Posted: April 24, 2007, 12:00:37 pm

Offline cobra

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;400062
Exactly, I think if one thing is also clear, science has done as much harm as good. Similarly, things that have been done in the name of God have also done as much harm as good. For every person who sponsors a child through World Vision or donates time to other religious charities, theres a person who will kill in the name of "God".

Science has not done as much harm as good - Science has give man tools that he has used to do harm, - Also when you sponsor a child through world vision are you doing good? I thought world vision robbed these children of their culture - a we will give  you food if you take this bible type program

The harm with Religion is that it is dehumanizing - I have met many christians who are ashamed of there desires to have sex  
 
heroin was developed with the best of intentions - A less addicitive morphine that  turn out to be a lot more addicitive - But the major harm isn't through the use of the drug, it is through the illegal status of the drug.

When I have children, i would prefer that they experimented with drugs over going to church, experimenting with drugs tends to show an inquisitive mind, church a closed one

also dont some of your cults teach that "paracetemol is bad for you and anti-God" - Dont some christians believe that anything except praying for your health is against gods will?

And before you start with the "you are a fucken idiot, think first" bullshit, I was just saying that your statement was meaningless - Just moralistic bullshit - If you had said being an alcoholic junkie smoking 50 cigarettes is bad for you i would agree (also doesn't your religion teach turn the other cheek and live and let live? instead of an attack on my "mental capacity") but if your point was they are bad in excess then everything is bad in excess- including blindly following the bible

Reply #2193 Posted: April 24, 2007, 12:42:53 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: cobra;400111
Science has not done as much harm as good - Science has give man tools that he has used to do harm, - Also when you sponsor a child through world vision are you doing good? I thought world vision robbed these children of their culture - a we will give  you food if you take this bible type program

Not at all, to the best of my knowledge. Regardless, the intention of the person who sponsors a child is the point I was trying to make, not the charity itself. You're just being a picky little bastard who has no intentions of taking this discussion seriously, instead throwing up picky little excuse after picky little excuse to have a quick, smartass go at religion.

Quote from: cobra;400111
heroin was developed with the best of intentions - A less addicitive morphine that turn out to be a lot more addicitive - But the major harm isn't through the use of the drug, it is through the illegal status of the drug

No offence, but that is utter f*cking bullshit. HEROIN IS NOT GOOD FOR YOU! You cannot deny this fact, or try to blame it on something else, because people are taking it for pleasure, not to sooth pain.

Again: think first, then type.

Reply #2194 Posted: April 24, 2007, 01:04:06 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: cobra;400111
also dont some of your cults teach that "paracetemol is bad for you and anti-God" - Dont some christians believe that anything except praying for your health is against gods will?

And before you start with the "you are a fucken idiot, think first" bullshit, I was just saying that your statement was meaningless - Just moralistic bullshit - If you had said being an alcoholic junkie smoking 50 cigarettes is bad for you i would agree (also doesn't your religion teach turn the other cheek and live and let live? instead of an attack on my "mental capacity") but if your point was they are bad in excess then everything is bad in excess- including blindly following the bible

Firstly, religions and cults are different things. Please stop confusing them.

Secondly, my comment was not moralistic or bullshit. My statement wasn't meaningless, since I was sharing my own experience - so saying my statement was meaningless implies that you feel my experience is meaningless, in which case f*ck you man. As for attacking your mental capacity, I assume that since you can type, you can think, which is recognition that in fact you have some form of mental capacity, and I'm merely encouraging you to use it. You've thus far contributed nothing of any use to this discussion, except for a few well-worn generalisations about religion, that come to nothing. Nothing. You should think about actually trying to do something of use.

Think first, then type.

Edit: I don't mean to offend, but you make me incredibly frustrated with your overall lack of knowledge about religion, and Christianity in general. If you want me to answer questions about my beliefs, what I think God is all about, what I think the bible says about this or that, or whatever, then start another thread. But you should know I'm not answerable for all religious people. Yes, some religious people (and indeed, some Christians) believe prescription drugs like paracetamol or antibiotics are indeed against their beliefs. I am not one of those people, so please don't generalise me as one. Thank you.

Reply #2195 Posted: April 24, 2007, 01:09:49 pm

Offline cobra

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;400130
Not at all, to the best of my knowledge. Regardless, the intention of the person who sponsors a child is the point I was trying to make, not the charity itself. You're just being a picky little bastard who has no intentions of taking this discussion seriously, instead throwing up picky little excuse after picky little excuse to have a quick, smartass go at religion.


No offence, but that is utter f*cking bullshit. HEROIN IS NOT GOOD FOR YOU! You cannot deny this fact, or try to blame it on something else, because people are taking it for pleasure, not to sooth pain.

Again: think first, then type.


Dude - You are filled with a lot of anger - You missed my points - science doesn't do harm but has developed tools that people have used to do harm

Taking drugs isn't bad - being a junkie is - Many Artists have created great works of art that would not be a round if not for recreational drugs, so Heroin has had a positive impact on my life

Reply #2196 Posted: April 24, 2007, 01:11:20 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: cobra;400138
Taking drugs isn't bad - being a junkie is - Many Artists have created great works of art that would not be a round if not for recreational drugs, so Heroin has had a positive impact on my life

I assume you mean like the colourful work of art the back of Kurt Cobains head left on the wall of his greenhouse?

Look, I've been down that road and it sucks, I've been addicted to smoking and I've been borderline alcoholic at various points in my life, so I know full well the effect drugs and alcohol can have on a person. Heck, I play in a band with 3 guys who all smoke pot, and feel like they need to in order to get through a gig! But the simple fact is: in no circumstance that I know of (and certainly no everyday circumstance) is heroin a good drug to take. Nor cocaine, speed, pot or any other mind-altering drug you could care to name. They simply aren't good for you.

If you don't believe me, read Scar Tissue by Anthony Kiedis (lead singer of the Chili Peppers). Drug use sounds like all fun and games, but by the time he realised the mistake he was making, he was f*cked up for life.

Reply #2197 Posted: April 24, 2007, 01:20:17 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: cobra;400138
science doesn't do harm but has developed tools that people have used to do harm

One could say the same about religion:
"religion doesn't do harm but it develops beliefs and agendas that are against the will of God, that people have used to do harm."

Reply #2198 Posted: April 24, 2007, 01:21:35 pm

Offline cobra

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;400134
You've thus far contributed nothing of any use to this discussion, except for a few well-worn generalisations about religion, that come to nothing. Nothing. You should think about actually trying to do something of use.
.


In this discusion i have asked two points about religion that i personally wanted answered

1. "how is god different from the tooth fairy" - the response fuck you, you are an idiot

2. "if heaven is so great, why not die" - the response fuck you, you are an idiot

(i know those werent your exact words more the general feel)

but due to my love of being told "fuck you, you are an idiot" i will ask another question which won't get answered

Whether or not there is a god, why go to church - isn't the church quite obviously more about politics and power rather the god - Jesus supposedly taught quite liberal messages but the church pushes for conservative policies (the prostitution bill + civil unions), why does the pope have any say over what "god" thinks and what is right and wrong?

Reply #2199 Posted: April 24, 2007, 01:21:53 pm