Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline cobra

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;400150
One could say the same about religion:
"religion doesn't do harm but it develops beliefs and agendas that are against the will of God, that people have used to do harm."


i would say those beliefs and agendas are inseparable from the religion

Reply #2200 Posted: April 24, 2007, 01:24:33 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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I can see that maybe I have been a bit unfair. Please accept my apologies - I will try to answer your questions as best I know how.

Quote from: cobra;400151
how is god different from the tooth fairy

Put simply, God is real. The tooth fairy is a character made up presumably so kids wouldn't be scared when their teeth fall out. God is actually a real spiritual being whom over 5 billion people believe in. As mentioned, the only way I know to explain HOW I know God exists would be something you wouldn't understand. Its one of those things you just have to experience for yourself.

Quote from: cobra;400151
if heaven is so great, why not die

Why would anyone do that and potentially miss out on so much life?! Also, suicide is considered an act of defying God, so you would likely end up in Hell (not good). Also, if you don't believe in the God from above, you also likely would end up in Hell. God created humans so they would live, not die.

Quote from: cobra;400151
Whether or not there is a god, why go to church - isn't the church quite obviously more about politics and power rather the god

If you believe in the bible, and stand by what it says, then going to church is an extension of that. The Bible is about God, and God says its a good idea to get together in groups (which then became churches) to celebrate Him, share in the sense of community, and keep an eye out for one another. Churches are run by people, and people are quite obviously more about politics and power. Its a catch-22.

Quote from: cobra;400151
Jesus supposedly taught quite liberal messages but the church pushes for conservative policies (the prostitution bill + civil unions),

The church takes public stance on things it believes are against the will of God for His people. Prostitution is rewarding a form of promiscuity, which is anti-biblical. Civil Unions are supportive of homosexuality, which is anti-biblical. The church merely stands against policies and laws that are against its beliefs. From religion to religion, and in some cases church to church within the same religion, those beliefs can differ, because churches are run by people, not God Himself.

To further answer your "why go to church" question, the key is to find a church that has similar beliefs to yours. I believe Christians are called to attend churches, but I don't believe any church has the right answer. Again, church is run by man, about God; not run by God.

Quote from: cobra;400151
why does the pope have any say over what "god" thinks and what is right and wrong?

I don't subscribe to Catholic beliefs, and thus the pope has no influence on my moral sensibilities. Also, the pope doesn't have say over what God thinks, but he does have say over what understanding of Gods word (the Bible) the Catholic church adopts.

Hope that helps, at least a little bit.

Reply #2201 Posted: April 24, 2007, 01:53:31 pm

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;400185


Why would anyone do that and potentially miss out on so much life?! Also, suicide is considered an act of defying God, so you would likely end up in Hell (not good). Also, if you don't believe in the God from above, you also likely would end up in Hell. God created humans so they would live, not die.




More scare tactics? Dont believe in me then goto hell! And as for suicide what about religous cults? They commit mass suicide for their god. Whose to say they arnt right?

Reply #2202 Posted: April 24, 2007, 01:58:15 pm


Offline KiLL3r

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The Dali Lama, the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhists, is visiting the U.S. next month and a group of evangelical Christians are ready to save his eternal soul, before it’s too late.

Before I continue with this ridiculous story, let me just splain something to those of you that aren’t familiar with Buddhism or the Dali Lama. According to Tibetan tradition, the current Dali Lama, (the 14th) is believed to be the reincarnation of the 13th Dali Lama, who was reincarnated from the 12th Dali Lama, and so on, all the way back to the very first Dali Lama (Genden Drub), 1391-1474.

I’m sure I’ll get some email from the theologians among you about this next part, but in the most basic sense, Buddhism is considered a major world religion even though they do not worship a God. They believe that man should work to achieve enlightenment while on earth and the Dali Lama is the most enlightened one of all. Evangelical Christians, on the other hand, don’t worry about achieving any kind of enlightenment while they’re on earth, but believe that your soul will be eternally damned unless you are ’saved’ before you die. This would mean being ‘born again’ if you’re already a Christian, or converted, if you’re not.

Now, back to the story.

Interserve USA, an international missionary group, has decided to take the opportunity to ’save’ the Dali Lama and as many of his followers as they can, and are conducting a series of workshops on how to share the gospel with Tibetan Buddhists.

The online announcement of these workshops uses this cute tagline: “Tibetan Buddhism. It’s ancient. It’s complex. It’s trendy. And its leader, the Dali Lama, is visiting your city this spring.”

The executive director of Interserve, Doug Van Bronkhorrst, says, “Oh, sure, he’s a very thoughtful man. He has a lot of good things to say about peace in the world, and he’s quite knowledgeable about other faiths, including the Christian faith.” But, he’s getting on in years and if we can’t save him before he dies, he’ll go straight to fucking hell.

Okay, I paraphrased that last part, that’s why it’s not in quotes, but you get the point. One of the least enlightened humans on the planet believes it’s his job to ’save’ the soul of a man who is quite possibly the most enlightened.

I can see it now. The Dali Lama and his entourage scurrying hurriedly through the airport with a group of Bible-thumping evangelicals following behind them, being chased by a bunch of Hare Krishnas.



Lol theyre at it again!

Reply #2203 Posted: April 24, 2007, 02:03:27 pm


Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: KiLL3r;400193
More scare tactics? Dont believe in me then goto hell! And as for suicide what about religous cults? They commit mass suicide for their god. Whose to say they arnt right?

I have no answer for this, other than to say the idea of any God who cared about my life wanting me to kill myself is absurd.

Reply #2204 Posted: April 24, 2007, 02:32:08 pm

Offline KiLL3r

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saw this in guild wars. unfournately they wont accept my buddist girlfriend :violin:

went a bit sour after that

Reply #2205 Posted: April 24, 2007, 02:49:51 pm


Offline Bell

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;400185
Put simply, God is real. The tooth fairy is a character made up presumably so kids wouldn't be scared when their teeth fall out. God is actually a real spiritual being whom over 5 billion people believe in.

Put simply, Santa is real, God is a made up presumably so adults won't be scared of death.
Santa is actually a real spiritual being whom over a billion childern believe in!
I know hes real because I experianced his awesomeness one christmas.

Reply #2206 Posted: April 24, 2007, 03:12:26 pm

Offline Bell

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;400185
Also, suicide is considered an act of defying God, so you would likely end up in Hell (not good). Also, if you don't believe in the God from above, you also likely would end up in Hell. God created humans so they would live, not die.

Yea you can go to some sort of "hell" in alot of different religons for a large range of things including not believing in that one particular religon.
So I hope you picked rightly Flea cause otherwise you are going too.
IF god wanted true believers he wouldn't have thrown in bullshit scare tactics like the going to hell thing, I know when I was a small child and first heard about all this crap I belived in this god chap because I was scared i'd go to hell if i didn't.

Reply #2207 Posted: April 24, 2007, 03:19:23 pm

Offline KiLL3r

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http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_011.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_012.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread


Cue to a bit of a fight between Pope and the demons. Pope gets knocked out, but then Jesus' mother comes down to pay a visit and saves them all. Meanwhile, Claus steals a bit of money from a Salvation Army place and eats at a McDeath. J.C. and Pope take J.C.'s mother back home where she meets the other tenants in the church, and he gets angry because nobody knows it's his birthday tomorrow. Oh noes. Poor J.C. is all emo over that and goes out.

Santa keeps tricking people, J.C.'s mom goes to bed with Pope, and tells him he's okay. Pope's hurt and tries to impress her, but... eh. She's been with God, I really don't think you can, well, be better than him. (God likely cheats anyway, he's probably a lousy lay and then hipnotizes the girls to think that he was incredible. Whoo let's blaspheme a lot today!)

So J.C. keeps going...
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_023.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_027.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_028.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_030.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread


Pope finds out and goes to stop them both. (And that lady dressed as a nun? That's J.C.'s MOM. God sure knows how to pick 'em!) I'll let the rest of the story play out for you. :)
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_032.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread


To be Continued....

Reply #2208 Posted: April 24, 2007, 03:26:45 pm


Offline KiLL3r

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Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_034.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_035.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_036.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_037.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/foxhack/Image/BPC_11_038.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread



For berg

Reply #2209 Posted: April 24, 2007, 03:29:11 pm


Offline hemihapuka

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;399892
No it doesn't say that. Just like it doesn't say not to smoke cigarrettes, do drugs, or drink. But they are all extremely bad for you. Which was my point.


Fair enough :)

Quote from: ThaFleastyler;400185
Prostitution is rewarding a form of promiscuity, which is anti-biblical. .

If there were'nt these lot doing what they do there would be alot more rapes and shit going down , I'm against the Churchys on this one

Quote from: ThaFleastyler;400185
Civil Unions are supportive of homosexuality, which is anti-biblical

I'm totally with the Churchys on this one :P

Quote from: Bell;400267
Put simply, Santa is real, God is a made up presumably so adults won't be scared of death.
Santa is actually a real spiritual being whom over a billion childern believe in!
I know hes real because I experianced his awesomeness one christmas.


I too have experienced Santa and waited up all night for him and now have realised that I am Santa or should I say have been since my son was born 8 yrs ago rofl!!!

Reply #2210 Posted: April 24, 2007, 03:53:28 pm
The answer to this last question will determine whether you are drunk or not. Was Mickey Mouse a cat or a dog ?

Offline Simon_NZ

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So, I started to read the Bible.

I figured I can't have a accurate opinnion on something I havn't read.

So far I have encounted:

Genocide.

Incest.

Rape.

Sodomy.

Your god seems like a sadist.

Asking Abraham to sacrifice his only son to prove his faith?

I can find the exact references if you want.

Reply #2211 Posted: April 25, 2007, 10:51:27 am

Offline DEATH0WL

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Quote from: Simon_NZ;400989
So, I started to read the Bible.

I figured I can't have a accurate opinnion on something I havn't read.

So far I have encounted:

Genocide.

Incest.

Rape.

Sodomy.

Your god seems like a sadist.

Asking Abraham to sacrifice his only son to prove his faith?

I can find the exact references if you want.


Sadly that lost some ground against Catholics as they just claim they only follow the "New Testament" which Has zombies in Revelations lol "someone asked, How do we raise the dead and what will they look like" or something along those lines.

Buddhist religion seems to be most reasonable. Vegetarian (optional?). Trying to reach worldwide peace. Try to respect everything. But the head shaving and re incarnation nah not gonna get me shaving my head and re-incarnation isn't more proven than Heaven/Hell. Wonder how they find the "enlightened one"...

Reply #2212 Posted: April 25, 2007, 11:09:33 am

Offline Simon_NZ

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But even the new testament has examples of a god that is anything but good.

Religion is a relic and has no place in modern society.

Im sorry if this offends various people but its true.

Reply #2213 Posted: April 25, 2007, 11:14:13 am

Offline Zarkov

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Reply #2214 Posted: April 25, 2007, 11:19:56 am

Offline ThaFleastyler

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I don't really know what to tell you.
I believe that a fair portion of the Bible is written metaphorically, with more importance placed on making a point for everyone - like, God uses Abrahams faith (testing him with his son Isaac) to illustrate what faith looks like, not to be an asshole to Abraham.

Reply #2215 Posted: April 25, 2007, 11:23:37 am

Offline krasher

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Quote from: Simon_NZ;400989
So, I started to read the Bible.

I figured I can't have a accurate opinnion on something I havn't read.

So far I have encounted:

Genocide.

Incest.

Rape.

Sodomy.

Your god seems like a sadist.

Asking Abraham to sacrifice his only son to prove his faith?

I can find the exact references if you want.
Nice work on doing some hands on research. +rep for starting to understand what you are talking about.

The word Bible means library - it is more than that, but that may help in understanding.

The bible is a collection of books and letters. Some are history books, some are letters to people, some are poems, some are wise sayings. Just because there are records of horrible things happening does not mean that they are condoned or caused by God, but they will be there for a purpose; possibly to give context to something or illustrate something. I see plenty of that kind of thing in other history books also.

Reading any writing is not as simple as just reading it. The bible is no exception. You must take into account, the culture of the person witting it, their intention, who they are witting to, then you can start to apply the implications of that to today in this time and this culture. Welcome to hermeneutics 101.

Also, If this Bible is so horrible and the church I attended Sunday was based on principles from this book, why is it that the service was about love? Why are so many churches interested in helping the community with practical and spiritual needs?

Reply #2216 Posted: April 25, 2007, 11:28:14 am
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Offline Simon_NZ

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Ok, here is one example I marked.

This is when Moses is incited by God to attack the Midianites in the Book of numbers

Moses soldiers showed mercy to the woman and children but Moses gave order to kill all boy children and:

"But all the women, children, that have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves" (Numbers 31:18).

There is much more - but im in the middle of a reinstall.

Reply #2217 Posted: April 25, 2007, 11:35:23 am

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: krasher;401049
Why are so many churches interested in helping the community with practical and spiritual needs?


Money.

Reply #2218 Posted: April 25, 2007, 12:05:59 pm


Offline krasher

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Quote from: KiLL3r;401088
Money.
Some churches maybe...there are people in every industry/religion's/country/govt/game that spoil it for the rest. Other than that, your statement is pretty naive - putting it nicely.

How many rich people do you know that have made their millions helping the poor? It is one of the worst paid industries around. Plenty have made money exploiting them.......

GL with reinstall. I don't know some parts (including that part) of the OT particularly well so I won't pretend to be able to talk about that part of history.

Reply #2219 Posted: April 25, 2007, 12:51:04 pm
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Offline Bell

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I believe in Windowism because Bill gates gives alot of money to charity.

Reply #2220 Posted: April 25, 2007, 12:55:25 pm

Offline krasher

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Quote from: Bell;401124
I believe in Windowism because Bill gates gives alot of money to charity.
Now...THAT is sick. lol. I can't think of anything else that has caused so much damage to society....;)

Reply #2221 Posted: April 25, 2007, 12:57:29 pm
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Offline Bell

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So you are saying Bill Gates is bad even tho he gives money away?... just like the church...

Reply #2222 Posted: April 25, 2007, 01:00:41 pm

Offline Black Heart

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bill gates doesn't give money away. he pay for projects that he's researched, or started himself that he is confident will benefit poor people. it's really easy to write a cheque, and forget about it (when you have untold billions of personal wealth), but he's very proactive in his charity work, i beleive he's stepped down from MS just so he has more time to do it... he's furthered humanity with his work with computers, and he's helping the ignored / forgotten end of humanity to catch up, or at least stopped some suffering. any church (or individual, or any organistation) would be proud to achieve what he has.

I don't think windows / microsoft is awesome, but bill gates is certainly up there.

Reply #2223 Posted: April 25, 2007, 02:03:23 pm

Offline krasher

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Quote from: Bell;401131
So you are saying Bill Gates is bad even tho he gives money away?... just like the church...
No, I wasn't clear. I was dissing windows. I thought that was a more obvious conclusion.

Reply #2224 Posted: April 25, 2007, 04:54:51 pm
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