Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline TofuEater

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Can science please explain why humans think and act differently from each other?

Reply #2375 Posted: April 29, 2007, 05:34:21 am
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Offline Arnifix

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Quote from: TofuEater;405349
Can science please explain why humans think and act differently from each other?


Because not every brain is the same. Hence why mice can think and act differently.

Reply #2376 Posted: April 29, 2007, 10:11:37 am

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: TofuEater;405349
Can science please explain why humans think and act differently from each other?


lol what a stupid question, can religion explain why humans think and act differently from each other?

Reply #2377 Posted: April 29, 2007, 11:44:44 am


Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: KiLL3r;405460
lol what a stupid question, can religion explain why humans think and act differently from each other?

Because God lacks the power and imagination to make biological robots

See what I did that? I stabbed Omnipresence and Omnipotence to death in one fell swoop!

Reply #2378 Posted: April 29, 2007, 12:04:10 pm
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Offline Zarathrustra

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Quote from: TofuEater;405349
Can science please explain why humans think and act differently from each other?
Genetics plus physical and mental input (experiences).

Reply #2379 Posted: April 29, 2007, 12:33:10 pm

Offline Bell

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science wins again.

Heres one for religion...

Why did god leave it up to man to write his teachings down in a book for all to follow when since he is surposed to be all knowing he would know man would fuck it up and people would all read into it differently, translate it differently, ignore some peoples additions or add in new parts (islam) which would create a whole bunch of different sects creating religous turmoil for 1000's of years to come.

Stupid move god.

Reply #2380 Posted: April 29, 2007, 02:11:25 pm

Offline Simon_NZ

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Reply #2381 Posted: April 29, 2007, 02:13:40 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: KiLL3r
can religion explain why humans think and act differently from each other?
Yes, you can explain this scientifically, but if you believe God created all people, you can also say that God created each person exactly as they are. Thus, we're all different because God created us that way.

Quote from: Bell;405606
Why did god leave it up to man to write his teachings down in a book for all to follow when since he is surposed to be all knowing he would know man would fuck it up and people would all read into it differently, translate it differently, ignore some peoples additions or add in new parts (islam) which would create a whole bunch of different sects creating religous turmoil for 1000's of years to come.
Simple really: theologians, and most bible believing Christian folk, believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God - its not man talking, its God talking. Hence, the Bible is written in a way similar to how a lawyer might dictate a letter to a receptionist - man didn't "write" the bible, we just transcribed it, the same way the receptionist didn't "write" the letter.

The problem with answering these kind of questions is that you need to actually believe in God and believe in Jesus to understand, otherwise (admittedly) it does sound like hogwash. I can understand why you are all skeptical, but frankly, I fail to see how this has anything to do with the original thread topic.

That said, can science please explain why 84% of the population of earth believe in God, in one form or another?

Reply #2382 Posted: April 29, 2007, 02:33:23 pm

Offline Bell

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Because they are taught to believe in it from birth just like almost all western childern believe in santa until they are told its not true, eventually even thier parents admitt it.

Difference is religion has alot of defense setup from people saying its not true and usually the people who they trust (parents etc) aren't the ones who say it.

Also its almost impossible to disprove. With santa you just have to find your parents stash of presents.

I can also see the comfort in believing in god, you don't worry so much about death.

Btw I have no problem with people believing in a higher being or creator or whatever that they have come up with thier own thoughts.
But I have a big problem with religions setting rules and telling people how to live, especially when it is forced on childern who aren't yet able to come up with thier own ideas.


Quote from: ThaFleastyler;405623
man didn't "write" the bible, we just transcribed it, the same way the receptionist didn't "write" the letter.
Why didn't god just send down an already written book or a massive pile of them so people couldn't add in parts or ignore some of them because they think the person who wrote that part didn't recieve orders from god.
He could have written it in special god ink or something that man wasn't unable to recreate.
I'm sure if I had the super powers of god I could come up with something feasible.
Surely he didn't want man to wage war and kill each other over his book, do millions of people deserve to go to hell because they happened to be born in a region where they messed up the translation?

Reply #2383 Posted: April 29, 2007, 02:40:21 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: Bell;405626
I can also see the comfort in believing in god, you don't worry so much about death.

Why? If you don't believe in God, then you would have to believe theres nothing after death, except blackness (or maybe reincarnation, if you're crazy). Thus, what is there to be scared of, other than finality.

Frankly, being Christian, death is far more fearful - its heaven or hell at that point!

Quote from: Bell;405626
Btw I have no problem with people believing in a higher being or creator or whatever that they have come up with thier own thoughts.
But I have a big problem with religions setting rules and telling people how to live, especially when it is forced on childern who aren't yet able to come up with thier own ideas.

Well said dude - finally something we can agree on :D
I was brought up in the Catholic church by my parents, and when I was 12 (1993), they said I didn't have to go to church if I didn't want to. I didn't go back again after that (except for services at Easter and Christmas, and even those stopped a couple of years later) until I went to my current church again in 2003.

Reply #2384 Posted: April 29, 2007, 02:51:26 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Damn edits while I'm replying! :D

Quote from: Bell;405626
Why didn't god just send down an already written book or a massive pile of them so people couldn't add in parts or ignore some of them because they think the person who wrote that part didn't recieve orders from god.
As Bruce says in Bruce Almighty: 'How do you make someone love you without affecting Free Will?" If God were to send down a book by some kind of miraculous means, there would be no denying that He existed, thus it would be affecting free will. God wants us to have Him as part of our lives, He doesn't want to force us into it (even though some religions would have you believe that).

Reply #2385 Posted: April 29, 2007, 02:55:45 pm

Offline Bell

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;405632
Why? If you don't believe in God, then you would have to believe theres nothing after death, except blackness (or maybe reincarnation, if you're crazy). Thus, what is there to be scared of, other than finality.

People don't like to think that they will just become nothing they like to think they are special or have some purpose.
And every single religous person doesn't think they are the ones going to hell its those other religions that are.
So death seems like a great thing they get to go to paradise while thier enemys burn in hell.
Which is the thinking of the suicide bombers.

My view on death is that it'll be exactly what it was like before you were born. I don't see anyone upset by the fact that they didn't exist for the 5 billion years. Which means reincarnation doesn't add up either because there wasn't any life on earth afew billions years ago so where was your soul then?

Reply #2386 Posted: April 29, 2007, 02:58:51 pm

Offline Bell

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;405638
Damn edits while I'm replying! :D

As Bruce says in Bruce Almighty: 'How do you make someone love you without affecting Free Will?" If God were to send down a book by some kind of miraculous means.

Then why did he help part the red sea, turn water into wine etc etc.
The people watching those events happen would be %100 sure he existed.

Why did they get special treatment by getting definate proof he was real.

And yes im an edit whore :P

Reply #2387 Posted: April 29, 2007, 03:03:14 pm

Offline Tiwaking!

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Reply #2388 Posted: April 29, 2007, 03:19:13 pm
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Offline DEATH0WL

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;405632
(or maybe reincarnation, if you're crazy)


:disappoin now you've turned to insulting the beliefs of another form of religion. And both of you have no way of proving that your the "one and only religion"

Reply #2389 Posted: April 29, 2007, 03:27:29 pm

Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: DEATH0WL;405668
:disappoin now you've turned to insulting the beliefs of another form of religion. And both of you have no way of proving that your the "one and only religion"

Richard Dawkins puts it succintly
[video]6mmskXXetcg[/video]
"What if you are wrong about the JuJu at the bottom of the sea?

Reply #2390 Posted: April 29, 2007, 03:31:40 pm
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Offline Simon_NZ

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Reply #2391 Posted: April 29, 2007, 03:33:54 pm

Offline Bell

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;405672
Richard Dawkins puts it succintly


Perfect he put my thoughts into awesome words i couldn't have thought of.

Reply #2392 Posted: April 29, 2007, 03:37:06 pm

Offline TofuEater

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Quote from: Arnifix;405386
Because not every brain is the same. Hence why mice can think and act differently.

But that doesn't cover it. For instance, identical twins tend to have the same thoughts and feelings, so why don't we all have the same thoughts and feelings? For instance, for any given situation human cogniscense should dictate that the same answer would be derived by every person on every occasion, but it's plainly not so.

Which means that environment plays a part - and that environment includes religion. You are therefore assuming that science has shaped religion, which means that in order for science to be right, religion must be right in which case most of you here are wrong.

Quote from: KiLL3r;405460
lol what a stupid question, can religion explain why humans think and act differently from each other?

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

Reply #2393 Posted: April 29, 2007, 03:45:09 pm
Quote from: Fran O\'Sullivan
The best thing about Finance Minister Bill English\'s latest Budget is that it does finally signal a much greater role for the private sector in the New Zealand economy. And another step along the way to extract this country from the political cul-de-sac in which Helen Clark\'s Labour Government parked us.

Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;405638
As Bruce says in Bruce Almighty: 'How do you make someone love you without affecting Free Will?" If God were to send down a book by some kind of miraculous means, there would be no denying that He existed, thus it would be affecting free will. God wants us to have Him as part of our lives, He doesn't want to force us into it (even though some religions would have you believe that).

*blink* Um

God doesnt have to second-guess humans because God is the omnipresent, omnipotent creator and ruler of all the whole galaxy.

Thusly God understands our motivations and our futures. Therefore God understands that some of us will come to know God as God truly is whereas some people will reject the idea of God's existence, so God therefore benefits and hinders everyone equally in order for us to live our lives as we see fit and therefore: Free Will!

......

Of course, the flip-side of this is that due to the fact that we posess this great gift of 'Free Will', it means that God exists irrespective of his or our need to believe in God. So the question must be asked: Why believe in a God?

Pascals Wager: Because you can only gain from believing in God, then you should believe in God. This is of course horribly false in that you believe only because it ultimately BENEFITS yourself to believe which is contrary to the Catholic ideal of Perfect Contrition.

If you believe in God then therefore you give up your free will.....to God, and follow God's Will. So God gives you the choice to either live a life of Free Will or sacrifice this ultimate gift God has given to God.

"The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away"

Sounds like the Lord doth do far more takething than he does givething to me.

Why would you give up the only thing worth living for(Free will) to gain something which can only be worth dying for(Heaven and Eternity in Gods presence)?

Reply #2394 Posted: April 29, 2007, 03:45:55 pm
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Offline cobra

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Quote from: TofuEater;405686
But that doesn't cover it. For instance, identical twins tend to have the same thoughts and feelings, so why don't we all have the same thoughts and feelings? For instance, for any given situation human cogniscense should dictate that the same answer would be derived by every person on every occasion, but it's plainly not so.

Which means that environment plays a part - and that environment includes religion. You are therefore assuming that science has shaped religion, which means that in order for science to be right, religion must be right in which case most of you here are wrong.




I cant follow your "logic" - please tell me you are taking the piss and this is not a serious post (doing a "nick")

Reply #2395 Posted: April 29, 2007, 03:52:55 pm

Offline Simon_NZ

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tofu talks tough, but his logic is sometimes flawed

Reply #2396 Posted: April 29, 2007, 03:54:06 pm

Offline Arnifix

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Quote from: TofuEater;405686
But that doesn't cover it. For instance, identical twins tend to have the same thoughts and feelings, so why don't we all have the same thoughts and feelings? For instance, for any given situation human cogniscense should dictate that the same answer would be derived by every person on every occasion, but it's plainly not so.

Which means that environment plays a part - and that environment includes religion. You are therefore assuming that science has shaped religion, which means that in order for science to be right, religion must be right in which case most of you here are wrong.


You are now talking philosophy. Determinism (same situation = same result) is unproven. In fact, it cannot be proved in any way I can think of offhand.

And despite this, you're still working from a flawed basis. No two people are exactly alike, physically or mentally, therefore it is impossible to determine whether or not they would make the same decision. If we could do this, we could potentially solve one of the great mysteries.

Reply #2397 Posted: April 29, 2007, 04:00:27 pm

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline KiLL3r

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Dawkins takes on the christians and wins

[video]qR_z85O0P2M[/video]

Reply #2398 Posted: April 29, 2007, 04:02:31 pm


Offline Simon_NZ

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because tiwaking just posted that...

Reply #2399 Posted: April 29, 2007, 04:04:10 pm