Originally Posted by Arnifix View PostIncreased fuel prices, heightened "security" at airports and schools, idiotic invasions of privacy and the general decay of civilized society?agreed, tofu must be walking around with his head up his ass if he cant see the obviousQuote:Originally Posted by TofuEater View Postsorry simon_nz & arnifix i was wrongedited for truth_________________
Hitler was a devout Christian, this is fact. Now: Im not saying that all Christians are Hitler, Its just that Hitler identified himself and followed fundamentalist Christian teachings and I would believe, due to NO evidence to the contrary, that Hitler is in heaven right now.Thusly the 'situational ethics' promoted by the Christian haranguer that people were 'just following orders' means that they were following Hitlers orders, who was following Gods orders.
Hitler was a devout Christian, this is fact. Now: Im not saying that all Christians are Hitler, Its just that Hitler identified himself and followed fundamentalist Christian teachings and I would believe, due to NO evidence to the contrary, that Hitler is in heaven right now.
Interestingly enough, a recent study has shown that the vast majority of the animal kingdom take part in homosexual acts. 1 in 5 male sheep are gay. Some penguins will bond in male-male pairs, fuck a female penguin and then drive her away after she's laid the egg to raise it with their male mate.
How can you not form an opinion of something if you aren't exposed to it? For instance, i'm sure most of the people on these forums have been exposed to religion at some point, but it appears that most have rejected it. For athetists to want to "convert" christians is no more right than christians wanting to convert atheists. Why don't you people just learn to live and let live - it doesn't affect YOU, so who gives a shit?
thats pretty flawed. if i decide to kill orphans does that affect you? If you decide to fuck your pets, does that affect me?
"Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious beliefs and opinions, they may with practices."
The best thing about Finance Minister Bill English\'s latest Budget is that it does finally signal a much greater role for the private sector in the New Zealand economy. And another step along the way to extract this country from the political cul-de-sac in which Helen Clark\'s Labour Government parked us.
I wish we had a similar bill of rights here in NZ - we are primitive savages by comparison. Our liberties are eroded on a constant basis with barely a whisper of dissent.
We also have naturally occurring in the animal kingdom...Pack rape / abduction - dolphins.Copraphilia - rabbits.Infanticide (child murder) - lions.Suicide - ants.Cannibalism - baboons.... the list goes on.Condoning a behavior because other animals do it doesn't make that behavior good or right, just shared. This argument is fundamentally flawed.
It's a wrong analogy. Take a look at the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment to the American Constitution for guidance. While it allows for freedom of religious expression, it specifically stops some practices
Increased fuel prices, heightened "security" at airports and schools, idiotic invasions of privacy and the general decay of civilized society?
you still fail to directly address my point - what if GWB believes he has a moral(which he draws from the bible) imperative to stay in Iraq?even if he doesn't - that above quote seems to illustrate my point well enough.you fail.
Some interesting quotes from Gary Potter, President of Catholics for Christian Political Action"when the christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homsexuals. After the Christian Majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil"So much for forgiveness and charity.Perhapes the saddest thing I can personally relate to is this example belowThe American geologist Kurt Wise is the now director of "Center for Origins Research" - what is really sad is that he is actually qualified, a geology degree from the University of Chicago followed by higher education in geology and paleontology at Harvard under Stephen J Gould, if you have ever studied geology, natural history etc you will know J Gould..anyway Wise was a genuinely smart guy and promising young scientist. Then shit hit the fan. His very training as a geologist was at end with his upbringing in a fundamentalist Christian religious house. It slowly subverted and weakened his scientific views until one day he could take it no more. He took to the bible with scissors, literally cutting out everything that wouldn't stack up if the scientific world view was correct, at the end of his ruthlessly honest labour left the bible"try as I might, even with the benefit of the intact margins throughout the pages of Scripture, I found it impossible to pick up the bible without it being rent in two. I had to make a decision between evolution and scripture. Either the scripture was true and evolution was wrong or evolution was true and I had to toss out the Bible...it was there that night I accepted the word of god and rejected all that would ever counter it, including evolution. With that, in great sorrow, I tossed into the fire all my dreams and hopes in science."And here is my problem with religion. Indoctrinating thousands upon thousands of young, innocent minds and teaching that that unquestioning faith is a virtue. If religion can do that to someone who is a Harvard educated geologist I seriously worry about those of weaker minds and less education.
Liberty professor Marcus R. Ross was featured in a report on creationism.[27] Ross "believes that the Bible is a literally true account of the creation of the universe, and that the earth is at most 10,000 years old," but earned his Ph.D. in geosciences from University of Rhode Island with a dissertation about "the abundance and spread of mosasaurs, marine reptiles that, as he wrote, vanished at the end of the Cretaceous era about 65 million years ago."[27] Dr. Eugenie C. Scott of the National Center for Science Education said fundamentalists who capitalized on secular credentials "to miseducate the public" were doing a disservice to society.[27] Whereas, Dr. Michael L. Dini said, "Scientists do not base their acceptance or rejection of theories on religion, and someone who does should not be able to become a scientist."[27] Commenting on his dissertation that repeatedly described events as occurring tens of millions of years ago, Ross explained, "I did not imply or deny any endorsement of the dates."[27]
Pardon? No. I did not "condone" homosexuality because other animals did it. That statement was simply proof that it was natural, which in case you hadn't noticed, was the point I was arguing. L2read. The things you mention are all naturally occuring, and yet they are not what most people would consider good. However, you cannot say that because these actions are "bad" that all actions animals perform must therefore be "bad" or immoral or whatever you wish to call it.
Bush never campaigned for office on a "Christian" platform. Regardless of his personal beliefs he was not elected as a religious leader but as head of state: a secular State. In fact, if anything you should castigate Britain because they have the Queen as the head of State and since Henry VIII the monarch is also the head of the Church. You could make a case for Britain waging religious war against Iraq, but not America.
thats a lovely 3rd square you got there Fraggin..
agree with the comment?
We're off on the wrong foot. I didn't say YOU condone it. I'm simply saying that the "natural or not" distinction is meaningless, so why bother. It has no other value greater than the value of the distinction itself.
