Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: DEATH0WL;472641
Anyway is this new theory that we aren't the first universe going to replace the current big bang theory?

Back on-topic, I'm not sure how it could replace the already established Big Bang theory - for a start, the existence of a universe PRIOR to this universe implies the same kind of thinking that is behind the idea of multiple universe theory, which is still far from a mainstream scientific belief.

I don't know that the general population could come to terms with the idea of a pre-universe universe, when they find it hard coming to terms with the idea of multiple universes. Thus, I think this idea (while potentially more likely than "we came from nothing") will find it hard to become mainstream.

Reply #3000 Posted: July 03, 2007, 09:10:12 am

Offline woofnstuff

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face it, there are things that are simply just to big for us mortals to comprehend.

if you understood how the universe worked, you would in theory be able to live forever and do anything .. eg you would probably be a god.  and who says there were not lots of gods at one point, and after a bit of a battle there was only one,  or they agreed to have a holiday,  whats a few 1000 years to something that in theory lives forever,  heck they might just be bored with us and have started a new planet of beings,  which would explain why there has been no deity interaction with people for a long time...

Reply #3001 Posted: July 03, 2007, 09:18:50 am
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world... Those who understand binary and those who don\'t.

Offline KITTY

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ZOMGHWTFHUH???  Who the hell trolled this into a science v religion debate?  There is ZERO discussion about the article.  People, I know this is 'offtopic' but please stay on topic of the thread.

I know it's a big job but can admin merge posts re: science v religion with the science v religion thread where it belongs, please?

Reply #3002 Posted: July 03, 2007, 09:30:17 am
Discuss and comment.
(10 marks)

Kindest regards,
KITTY

Offline woofnstuff

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well anything relating to big bang theory in a full and total discussion must include religion.

you either have to disprove religion or admit there is a god,  either way its a tricky one

Reply #3003 Posted: July 03, 2007, 09:35:06 am
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world... Those who understand binary and those who don\'t.

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Quote from: KiLL3r;472568
lol just saying im wrong doesnt make you right


WHERES YOUR EVIDENCE MONKEY!!


My Evidence?

It doesn't say the Earth is flat in the bible.

How much more evidence could you want?

Reply #3004 Posted: July 03, 2007, 09:40:11 am

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Quote from: DEATH0WL;472641

Anyway is this new theory that we aren't the first universe going to replace the current big bang theory?


Not really, this new theory only says something about the universe before our one, the actully big bang part of our universe is still the same.

Reply #3005 Posted: July 03, 2007, 09:49:20 am

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote


Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)


Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.


silly monkey do your research

Reply #3006 Posted: July 03, 2007, 10:54:21 am


Offline woofnstuff

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Reply #3007 Posted: July 03, 2007, 10:57:25 am
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world... Those who understand binary and those who don\'t.

Offline Bell

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Quote from: Tactical2;472720
eqyptians beliefed in an underworld (NOT an afterlife - simply a place where souls go)
So you agree they believed they had a life after they died.

Quote from: Tactical2;472720
no afterlife. just an underworld
So this underworld was a place where you had a life of some sort after you died?

Quote from: Tactical2;472720
no afterlife except for Heroes
Wait so because heroes only got an afterlife we ignore this fact?

Quote from: Tactical2;472720
Budhaism (??) has a deciding after life

Interesting so you admitt you are completely wrong?

Oh and what about the aztecs of which I did 2min of research to find they had an afterlife in thier beliefs.
And how about my point about all the minor religions that died out that we have no idea about, you just gonna ignore that?

Reply #3008 Posted: July 03, 2007, 11:14:39 am

Offline TuataraDude

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Interesting theory, but unlikely to be proven. The difficulty is, space and time are inextricably linked, meaning if there was no space, there was no time. That would then make the meaning of "before" rather irrelevant.

Reply #3009 Posted: July 03, 2007, 11:26:35 am
Just when I thought I was out, they drag me back in.

Offline woofnstuff

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only if you are standing in the same dimension as we are, if you live outside of what we class and normal time as space.... and just cause you cant believe it, dosnt mean it cant exist.

a creature without eyes cant image what it would be like to see,  we are stuck in a finite time line, we can conceptualize things but we can never really grasp the size of that sort of concept.

i really should do some work, oh well

Reply #3010 Posted: July 03, 2007, 11:33:19 am
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world... Those who understand binary and those who don\'t.

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: Bell;472929
So you agree they had a life after you are died.





lol tactical underworld is just the same as heaven.

Reply #3011 Posted: July 03, 2007, 11:33:52 am


Offline Bell

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wow thats horrible english right there.

Reply #3012 Posted: July 03, 2007, 11:36:31 am

Offline woofnstuff

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im not known for english
sometimes i spell check too

Reply #3013 Posted: July 03, 2007, 11:38:04 am
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world... Those who understand binary and those who don\'t.

Offline hoodieblanket

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No the underworld is NOT an afterlife. thats what im trying to get across - christianity at around 34AD became popular due to it having 1. Moral Code, 2. Set of virtues and 3. introducing a possibility of a choice of after life. Heaven or Earth - Underworld was just seen as in many religions as where spirits simply go to - no life after death

bell im not trying to convince you that EVERY religion in the world right now has no sense of an after life etc.. religion has had shitloads of years to adapt and establish one, for all we know there was religions back when there were cavemen. what im trying to point out is christianity was the first religion which was widely accepted and sought after due to it having those 3 values - other religions of that time had restrictions so slaves/women/outsiders etc could never have part in the communities religion until christianity came along

**edit and just cuz norse are cool yea they thought that people who did heroic stuff before they died deserved to live with the gods

Reply #3014 Posted: July 03, 2007, 12:18:29 pm

Offline Bell

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Quote from: Tactical2;472985
bell im not trying to convince you that EVERY religion in the world right now has no sense of an after life etc

Quote from: Tactical2;472603
sorry to burst your bubble but there is only 1 religion which introduced an after life

Well no you were trying to tell me ONLY christianity had an afterlife and NONE of the rest did.

But i'm glad we now agree thats incorrect.

I still dispute the fact that underworlds were only places for storage of souls and there was no sense of 'life'

Quote
In Egyptian mythology, the fields of Aaru (alternatives: Yaaru, Iaru, Aalu), are the heavenly underworld where Osiris ruled.

Only souls which weighed the same as Ma'at (symbolically represented as a feather) were allowed to start a long and perilous journey to Aaru to exist in pleasure for all eternity.

How can you exist in pleasure for all eternity if your soul is just being stored in this underworld?

I think underworld and heaven are the same concepts.

Reply #3015 Posted: July 03, 2007, 12:25:22 pm

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: Tactical2;472985
No the underworld is NOT an afterlife. thats what im trying to get across - christianity at around 34AD became popular due to it having 1. Moral Code, 2. Set of virtues and 3. introducing a possibility of a choice of after life. Heaven or Earth - Underworld was just seen as in many religions as where spirits simply go to - no life after death



dont be ignorant.

Quote
In the study of mythology and religion, the underworld is a generic term approximately equivalent to the lay term afterlife, referring to any place to which newly dead souls go


and the underworld is not just a place souls go and linger. there are different zones in the underworld.


lets take the greek underworld which according to you
Quote from: tactical
Greeks did not have an afterlife - and greek is not a religion it involved many religions co-existing - greek code were to do what the fuck you wanted - kill pillage blah blah blah. but you must pray and sacrifice afterwards and then the gods like you. - no afterlife. just an underworld


doesnt exist

Quote
The Greek underworld is a general term used to describe the various realms of Greek mythology which were believed to lie beneath the earth or beyond the horizon.

These include: 1. The great pit of Tartarus, which was originally the exclusive prison of the old Titan gods, but which later came to mean the dungeon home of the damned souls ; 2. The land of the dead ruled by the god Hades, which is variously called the house or domain of Hades (domos Aidao), Hades, Erebus, the Asphodel Fields, Stygia and Acherontia ; 3. The Islands of the Blessed or Elysian Islands ruled by Cronus, where the great heroes of myth resided after death ; 4. The Elysian Fields ruled by Rhadamanthys, where the virtuous dead and initiates in the ancient Mysteries were sent to dwell.

The five rivers of Hades are Acheron (the river of sorrow), Cocytus (lamentation), Phlegethon (fire), Lethe (forgetfulness) and Styx (hate), which forms the boundary between upper and lower worlds.


Reply #3016 Posted: July 03, 2007, 12:39:38 pm


Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: tactical
other religions of that time had restrictions so slaves/women/outsiders etc could never have part in the communities religion until christianity came along


are you fucking nuts?

if what you say is true slavery would have been abolished way back during the roman empire but it didnt until after the american civil war. even later in othe rparts of the world.

also women would of had the vote way back then but they didnt get that till recently either


ignorance truly must be bliss

Reply #3017 Posted: July 03, 2007, 12:42:26 pm


Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Quote from: KiLL3r;472906

silly monkey do your research



Quote
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)


I thought I didn't see the phrase flat Earth in there, but just to be sure, I did a search of the text with the phrase, "Flat Earth", and as i suspected it, it wasn't in there.

So I can only guess you never learned to read, in that case, I shall explain these quotes to you, since it's obvious you can’t comprehend them yourself.

First, regarding the phrase "Four corners of the Earth".

Look at this website http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadripoint

Quote
In geography, a quadripoint is a point on the Earth that touches four distinct regions. Such points are often called "four corners", from the corners of the four regions meeting there


I don't understand how you can believe the phrase "Four corners of the Earth" refers to a flat Earth, when it so obviously doesn't.

What about the phrase "Four corners of the Globe", to me that pretty much means the same thing, I don't see how you could deduce from that that the Earth is flat.

All the phrase means, is from all over the Earth, The four corners refer to the four compass directions, North, South, East, West, this is widely accepted, this is even made obvious in the bible, in the quote you posted yourself;

Revelation 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corers of the Earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Four winds of the Earth, as in north , south, east and west winds.

Also,

Isaiah Chapter 40, verse 22: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

While it doesn't mention the world globe, and it's impossible to deduce from this verse whether it's referring to a circler plane of Earth, or Earth as a globe, it's clear that the 'circle of the Earth' can not have any corners, otherwise it wouldn't be a circle. And anyway, even now, globes are sometimes referred to a circle.

It's quite hypocritical that you take everything you read literally, then you attack any Christian who takes the bible literally. You seam just as bad as they are.

Anyway, if you took the phrase "Four corners of the Earth" literally, well, a Tetrahedron has four corners, by your logic, the bible teaches the Earth is a Tetrahedron.

It’s funny, you seam to have this thing that you believe the bible says the Earth is flat, yet you can’t prove it, and you ignore all the facts against it, that sounds religious to me.

Reply #3018 Posted: July 03, 2007, 12:45:24 pm

Offline Bell

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Yea im definatly not gonna join the argument on that one.
I don't see the point of using a book so vauge to prove anything.

Reply #3019 Posted: July 03, 2007, 12:49:42 pm

Offline anotherbodybag

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Wtf is with this thread!!!

The big bang never happened, the reality is Earth was invaded by the cylons some 20000000000000000 years ago, they slaughtered everyone except William and Beth Adama and it was up to them to make an Uber elite fighting force to take over the world, and wipe out the Cylons...

No wait thats season four's (Battlestar Galactica) plot line.:disappoin

Reply #3020 Posted: July 03, 2007, 12:58:25 pm

Offline Pyromanik

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Quote from: Tactical2;472720
Greeks did not have an afterlife - and greek is not a religion it involved many religions co-existing - greek code were to do what the fuck you wanted - kill pillage blah blah blah. but you must pray and sacrifice afterwards and then the gods like you. - no afterlife. just an underworld

same with roman religion - which also had multiple religions such as  stoicism they beliefed what controlled earth was a World Soul - yet again no afterlife. they believe that once you died you simply were obsorbed to be one with the world soul - then theres epicureanism which was the belief that there are gods but they didnt have anything to do with earth. but things simply happened by random chance of atoms colliding to cause random effects. - no afterlife



**edit Budhaism (??) has a deciding after life of being reborn however compared to all other religions im not sure if buddha is a more recent religion

You can't make an argument on something you know nothing about.
Give up.
















The Greeks had their own religion.



Pluto was the god of the Roman underworld.




Your edit makes NO sense whatsoever.
Buddhism is similar to hinduism, being where it originated from, around the 5th century BCE (before common era, == B.C.)
One gets reincarnated many times to learn many lessons until they reach the state of Nirvana. ('Being one with all'/'awakening to the universe' or whatever.)

However even in Buddhism there are many different sects and types, such as the two main classes, Theravada and Mahayana.
Each has their own subtle differences.



What makes these religions different (and where you get confused) is that they are TOLERANT of other religions. Where as Christianity is not.
If the Greeks met another culture with their own gods, they tried to associate their gods with the new ones...

Such as Amon Ra == Zeus == Jupiter.
(Egypt, Greece, Rome)

Reply #3021 Posted: July 03, 2007, 01:02:18 pm
Everyone needs more Bruce Campbell.

Offline Bell

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Theres no giving up on the internets!

Reply #3022 Posted: July 03, 2007, 01:04:32 pm

Offline Pyromanik

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True that.
The interwebs way is to dig yourself a hole so big that everyone stops caring.

Reply #3023 Posted: July 03, 2007, 01:17:17 pm
Everyone needs more Bruce Campbell.

Offline woofnstuff

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I got it,  lets build a time machine and go back and see WTF really happened,  heck, we could pass ourselves off as gods while we are there, i can make fire,  and light . then all get burned as witches probably


Reply #3024 Posted: July 03, 2007, 01:18:20 pm
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world... Those who understand binary and those who don\'t.