Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Steady]

Yeah sorry I just really dislike the church ay. They're getting better lately I suppose, although still behind other religions with the whole "accepting other religions" thing. I'm sorry

[KiLL3r]

when i was in primary school oh so long ago we had sum religous nuts come round and basically tell us cavemen never existed and neither did dinosaurs


so i guess those dinosaur bones where all fake then  :laff:  :laff:

[- NicK -]

No it wasnt. It was written after his death.

As far as I understand it the authors of the Bible wrote through divine influence. i.e. God wrote it through men.

[Simon_NZ]

As far as I understand it the authors of the Bible wrote through divine influence. i.e. God wrote it through men.

How convient.

Could that stand up to the scientific method? No

But because its 'supernatural' it is excluded.

Once again how convient.

[Steady]

The Church is a construct of man and so is very, very fallible.

I would think the same applies here, I know I wouldn't trust any of my mates with writing a book like that. I've actually heard it was a collection of stories or a library of books. As in it didn't all get written at once for the purpose of being a 'Holy book'

[- NicK -]

That's right it was written by many over a long period of time. It is probably because of the involvement of man that such a fuss is made about interpreting the Bible.

Convenient? Certainly. But isn't all evidence that supports an idea? Evidence isn't formed to justify theories. Theories are written to connect and explain evidence. Anyway, I've already stated that I find scientific method flawed.

[- NicK -]

Without a shadow of doubt I can prove that what I did eat for dinner tonight was not shit.


That is 'assumption' it is a fact. If I choose to I could follow the chicken from the battery, to the freezing works, then to the supermarket for me to buy. Second I could take a pile of shit, get out my chemistry set and note the differences in chemical make up between shit and chicken. While I am eating the chicken I could take scans of the brain waves then compare then to brains waves of when im eating shit.

...

Genetics have been changed in a very small amout of time. See.

That is not proof that you're not eating faeces. Your assumptions, observations and tests are all based on your physical senses. Fallible inputs.


Are the foxes not still foxes? Same number of chromosomes etc. All they've done is remove certain traits from the genotype. If the foxes could be reinserted into their species' population and successfully breed, would their eventual descendants not resemble their wilder ancestors? (Ignoring of course the fact that the more placid animals would be unlikely to survive in the wild, just trying to get at that it would be possible to return the characteristics that have been removed.) Show me scientists breeding flamingos from viri.

[Black Heart]

so some people have visions and conversations with god, and get reverence and holy literature printed.

other get labelled 'heretic' and burnt to death. or simply classed as mad, and treated as such. how to choose ? wow literary critics don't have half the power they used to.

[Simon_NZ]

That is not proof that you're not eating faeces. Your assumptions, observations and tests are all based on your physical senses. Fallible inputs.


Are the foxes not still foxes? Same number of chromosomes etc. All they've done is remove certain traits from the genotype. If the foxes could be reinserted into their species' population and successfully breed, would their eventual descendants not resemble their wilder ancestors? (Ignoring of course the fact that the more placid animals would be unlikely to survive in the wild, just trying to get at that it would be possible to return the characteristics that have been removed.) Show me scientists breeding flamingos from viri.

Your a perfect example of why it is pointless to argue points of fact against.

[KiLL3r]

so some people have visions and conversations with god, and get reverence and holy literature printed.

other get labelled 'heretic' and burnt to death. or simply classed as mad, and treated as such. how to choose ? wow literary critics don't have half the power they used to.

yer sum woman killed her husband and her 2 children recently and claimed that god told her to do it!

[- NicK -]

Your a perfect example of why it is pointless to argue points of fact against.

Thank you.


It IS pointless to argue about facts because nothing CAN be proved!

[laurasaur]

can we try keeping the personal insults to a level that occur in mature conversation?
(this is laura)

[Arnifix]

when i was in primary school oh so long ago we had sum religous nuts come round and basically tell us cavemen never existed and neither did dinosaurs


so i guess those dinosaur bones where all fake then  :laff:  :laff:

That should be illegal. 100% illegal. Indoctrinating the youth, etcetera. I would agree if they taught the place of religion in the world, but in no way should it be allowed to promote religion in a publicly funded (be it fully or only partial).

[- NicK -]

So, then should teaching evolution (or indeed any theory) be aswell?

[Arnifix]

So, then should teaching evolution (or indeed any theory) be aswell?

No. A scientific theory is just fact by a different name.

And anyway, we're not all as nihlistic as you.

[- NicK -]

Fair enough.


I guess I'm just struggling to define the difference between religious and scientific faiths.

[BerG]

This thread is pointless, it's just gonna go on and on.

The creationalists are never going to believe our facts about evolution because they are so devoted to their religion, and we are never going to believe what they say about creation because, well, it's laughable.

I'd like to believe that when we die we go to a happy magical world full of fields and flying people, but it's not gonna happen. All we are is a piece of thinking meat hidden away in the skull of a body which we control. When our heart is no longer able to pump blood to us, or we whack our head too hard against something, everything turns black, we die, and we rot.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

This is the thread that never ends,
It goes on and on my friend,
Some people starting posting not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue posting forever just becasue,

This is the thread that never ends...

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I'd like to believe that when we die we go to a happy magical world full of fields and flying people, but it's not gonna happen. All we are is a piece of thinking meat hidden away in the skull of a body which we control. When our heart is no longer able to pump blood to us, or we whack our head too hard against something, everything turns black, we die, and we rot.

How can you be so sure that when you die, that is it? What if we were in fact just a brain floating in a vat of goo, connected to an advanced computer which runs a program which simulates our life.

Now if we died in this program, the masters of the program could simply wipe your memory, reset the program, and you would be a baby again, in a fact reincarnated.

Now, we could never prove whether this is true or not, it's all comes down to what we believe.

Also, if you were in a computer program, you could not rely on your scientific facts to prove anything, as they would all be meaningless, just constructs of the program. So saying 'I believe this because of this scientific fact’ means nothing on it's own, it can only mean something if you believe that your 'scientific facts' are correct, therefore, you are on the same level as any creationist.


Now, a belief in God falls outside this, as it is because of a persons own spirituality that causes them to believe in a God, and not dependent on facts produced by the world they live in, whether it be real or simulated.

[KiLL3r]

yer i think the programs having problems i keep seeing rendering problems and a couple of times i have looked at a wall andthe textures didnt load fast enough

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

yer i think the programs having problems i keep seeing rendering problems and a couple of times i have looked at a wall andthe textures didnt load fast enough

It could be a driver problem, or you might of been drunk.

[SmiLinSniPeR]

Try a reboot an get a good firewall

[KiLL3r]

It could be a driver problem, or you might of been drunk.

nope, i was very tired thou 2,999

[Black Heart]

yes being drunk affects your hit detection also.

[Arnifix]

This is the thread that never ends,
It goes on and on my friend,
Some people starting posting not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue posting forever just becasue,

This is the thread that never ends...

that song angers me more than creationists.