Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Zarkov]

^^^
I made the Mithra/Mothra joke on page 115.
But your photo is way better than mine

Crap, I thought it was original.

Mind you, this threads so long every pun, joke, and clever allusion has probably been made twice by now.

[cobra]

Different religions will never agree with each other about whats right, however we can still use logic which in its self is a science to reach the most plausible conclusions.

And yes even scientist now have to accept that god can niether be proven is or disproved.

If you use logic to reach a plausible conclusion about god i think you will find that all logic points to no god

if something cant be proved then, for all intents and purposes, it doesn't exist

A good example is, if we look at a clock how do we know it is man made. Its obvious when you see all the moving parts that work together, chances are its beyond coincidence. Man was able to predict the world was round before he could ever travel it through logic.

you know the clock is man made because all the documented evidence of watchmakers

A good example is, if we look at a dog how do we know it is man made. Its obvious when you see all the moving parts that work together, chances are its beyond coincidence.

your point sucks

[Zarathrustra]

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

[ThaFleastyler]

Did anyone else see the documentary 'The Boy Who Lived Before' on Prime the other not?

Basically, 5 year old Cameron Macauley is a kid who remembers - in vivid detail - a past life on the island of Barra, off Scotland. His story is that he went through what was like a hole and ended up in the body of Cameron. He remembered various details about Barra - the close proximity of housing, planes landing on the beach, a large black dog, a large black and white car, the name of his "father" (Shane Robertson) and the way he died (run over by a car) ...

Some of the details were verified: planes did land on the beach; the housing was in close proximity to each other; there was a family with the surname Robertson who stayed a couple of summers on Barra a couple of decades ago; they had a black dog and a black/white car, but there was no Shane who got run over, just a couple of James'.

So what is the deal here? What do you guys think?

Apparently the memories are only vivid between the ages of 2 years old (presumably when the kids are articulate enough to talk about the memories) and 7 years old, when they fade away. In another case they covered on the show, the kid involved said God gave him a "card" to come back.

Either way, whether God is involved or not, reincarnation seems to be based on the idea of the soul, or spirit, so it seems to be relevant to this thread ... thoughts?

Edit: the doco is available here:



Edit 2: Let me clarify: I don't believe in reincarnation as a spiritual process - the bible clearly takes about one death, one judgment. But I do think that its possible there could be some "energy transfer" or some other scientific-based explanation for this apparent memory recall.

[Bounty Hunter]

Either way, whether God is involved or not, reincarnation seems to be based on the idea of the soul, or spirit, so it seems to be relevant to this thread ... thoughts?

children are fascinating creatures, you can feed them a drop of fiction and they;ll fabricate a world around it.

"do you remember when we went to the beach and saw the bonfire?"

at first the child will seem confused and deny it, but you only need to press it slightly

"remember? and we met matt? he showed you the fish he'd caught?"

...ahh....oh...oh yeah, it was all shiney, and we cooked it on the fire!

I think I remember reading it as an exercise some parents fo with their children to encourage creativity.

in this case I think you'll find it's an overdose, the boy has seen a photo of something that looks similar to something he has seen, decided he must've seen it before and got lucky.

planes land on beaches everywhere, big flat abundant stretches, who wouldnt land there? housing almost anywhere can be in close proximity, large black dog? I have one of those, her name is 'meg' does that mean he's lived here too? not a black/white car! truely a rarity, never seen one of those either, and robertson? again, a common name.

again it's probability, the proof of no god, 1 in 10,000,000 children when asked to make up a story will get 5/6 loose facts right.

[dirtyape]

interesting, off course i'm a skeptic about the child remembering a past life, perhaps it is just an over active imagination. But then again remembering the past could be some form of quantum effect, perhaps the thoughts of the individual that died somehow passed to the receptive mind of the child?

It is said that the first way that humans will time travel to the past will be via thought alone, to other individuals in the past. Perhaps, somehow, this child managed just that naturally. It's not outside the realms of possibility.

As for telling children a lie repeatedly until their mullable minds accept it as truth... this sounds a lot like how religions work to me. Someone tells a story, it gets retold, over a few generations it ceases to be a story and becomes mythology, eventually it becomes religion, and then it becomes fact to those that believe it. Doubly so even, for children that are exposed to devout religious teachings generally grow up to be the most narrow minded to any other alternatives to that which has been drummed into them from day one. To them, it is so much an integral part of reality that there is no separating the two.

[cobra]

But then again remembering the past could be some form of quantum effect, perhaps the thoughts of the individual that died somehow passed to the receptive mind of the child?

yeah..........no it couldn't

[ThaFleastyler]

As for telling children a lie repeatedly until their mullable minds accept it as truth...

In high-profile cases of reincarnation, this is ruled out very early on as a cause.

[Into The Void]

It's a TV show. I'm not willing to believe what a dumbass little 5 year old thinks.

And besides. I thought you christians didn't believe in reincarnation (edit: k just read your edit).

It's not possible. When you die, your brain stops working. You are your brain. If your brain isn't alive anymore you can't think.

[enile8]

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

Careful they'll all think your a crazy conspiracy theorist.

[Growler]

It's not possible. When you die, your brain stops working. You are your brain. If your brain isn't alive anymore you can't think.

So are you trying to tell me Futurama isint true, im not gonna be able to put my head in a jar and live on the body of a robot?

[cobra]

In high-profile cases of reincarnation, this is ruled out very early on as a cause.

um.... link to evidence please

reincarnation is nonsense, there are thousands of people who claim to be Cleopatra reincarnated

[ThaFleastyler]

um.... link to evidence please

reincarnation is nonsense, there are thousands of people who claim to be Cleopatra reincarnated

Wiki Article on Reincarnation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation
Wiki article on the book Twenty Cases Suggstive of Reincaration, by Ian Stevenson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_Cases_Suggestive_of_Reincarnation

I think it is nonsense as well, but it intrigues me that there are still compelling cases which seem to support the view of reincarnation; that leads me to think maybe it is feasible in some kind of form, but in a scientific as opposed to spiritual way (as I mentioned, either via a transfer of energy or something like that).

An interesting fact I once read was that around 90% of the atoms in our body once belonged to someone else, and were passed on due to decomposition and movement of atoms and stuff (read it in Bill Brysons book A Short History of Nearly Everything). Maybe that has something to do with it?

On the funny side, General George Patton believed he was Hannibal reincarnated, and Henry Ford believed he was a reincarnation of a soldier who died at Gettysburg in the American Civil War.

[cobra]

Wiki Article on Reincarnation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation
Wiki article on the book Twenty Cases Suggstive of Reincaration, by Ian Stevenson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_Cases_Suggestive_of_Reincarnation

I think it is nonsense as well, but it intrigues me that there are still compelling cases which seem to support the view of reincarnation; that leads me to think maybe it is feasible in some kind of form, but in a scientific as opposed to spiritual way (as I mentioned, either via a transfer of energy or something like that).

An interesting fact I once read was that around 90% of the atoms in our body once belonged to someone else, and were passed on due to decomposition and movement of atoms and stuff (read it in Bill Brysons book A Short History of Nearly Everything). Maybe that has something to do with it?

On the funny side, General George Patton believed he was Hannibal reincarnated, and Henry Ford believed he was a reincarnation of a soldier who died at Gettysburg in the American Civil War.

if they got that boy who claimed he was a mechanic reincarnated to fix a car i would be convinced

[dirtyape]

yeah..........no it couldn't

I'm intrigued by you're apparent confidence in this assertion, it's as if you believe you know the truth of the matter. How is it you know that this is outside the realms of possibility?

[cobra]

I'm intrigued by you're apparent confidence in this assertion, it's as if you believe you know the truth of the matter. How is it you know that this is outside the realms of possibility?

just saying "quantum" doesn't make it a scientific statement

[Into The Void]

I believe in reincarnation. Because i'm Jesus.

Now all of you mother fuckers bow down to your christ.

[KiLL3r]

those poor christians huh, after so many years of persecuting others they are finally feeling it themselves.

[Poos]

If you use logic to reach a plausible conclusion about god i think you will find that all logic points to no god

if something cant be proved then, for all intents and purposes, it doesn't exist


you know the clock is man made because all the documented evidence of watchmakers

A good example is, if we look at a dog how do we know it is man made. Its obvious when you see all the moving parts that work together, chances are its beyond coincidence.

your point sucks

Lol your points suck fool, you are forgetting my whole point is if god made animals and man then its obvious because its to coincidental. A dog would be something god made according to my example. Lol try looking at things more than one way.
Even scientists who dont believe in a god agree that cant disprove it. Until you have conclusive fact to support he does not exist then you cannot reach a solid conclusion. For years science argued and still do that meridians dont exist. These are invisible electric currents used by acupuncturists, science  said they dont exist despite millions of users knowing they do. Western scientist tried everything to explain things within the western scientific perspective. Now there is very strong evidence they exist, special cameras that can see them, they can be detected by current readers etc etc. But despite the over whelming facts some still refuse to accept it.

As for reincarnation, if you believe there is a god and he is fair then surely you should believe in reincarnation. Do you really think if there was a god do you really think he would just let some people be crippled or some born in a third world country. If you choose to accept the most basic principle of the universe ( cause and  consequence) then you should know that everything happens for a reason. Its like buying a car, if you dont have much money then you still have options but they are limited and not as good as some one with far more money. The religious word is karma which means to do. The smarter you make your self, the more wise your decisions the better your options, this is common sense.

So if im born into a nice home with loving parents did I just get lucky, why some other poor bastard ends up in Iraq. So if you believe there is a god surely he we only do that for a good reason. This is the argument for reincarnation. There was a famous example in India where an uneducated Indian boy was able to do the most complex mathematical equations without training in his own language. Surely he could have been born with a brain that was better suited for maths but don't tell me he could figure out advance maths that involve a lifetime of study with no training because of good genes.

[cobra]

Lol your points suck fool, you are forgetting my whole point is if god made animals and man then its obvious because its to coincidental. A dog would be something god made according to my example. Lol try looking at things more than one way.
Even scientists who dont believe in a god agree that cant disprove it. Until you have conclusive fact to support he does not exist then you cannot reach a solid conclusion. For years science argued and still do that meridians dont exist. These are invisible electric currents used by acupuncturists, science  said they dont exist despite millions of users knowing they do. Western scientist tried everything to explain things within the western scientific perspective. Now there is very strong evidence they exist, special cameras that can see them, they can be detected by current readers etc etc. But despite the over whelming facts some still refuse to accept it.

I did get your point - but it was retarded - intelligent design is just christians trying stifle scientific education because it threatens their world view
If you look at the human body you will discover that it is not very well designed, so either your god is pretty shitty at making things or perhaps, just perhaps we evolved

you can't disprove god - you can not find evidence that something doesn't exist, for instance find me evidence that there is not a magical space gorilla on the moon - but when there is no evidence that something does exist then there is no point thinking it is real. You have no understanding of science.

[krasher]

so either your god is pretty shitty at making things or perhaps, just perhaps we evolved

I'm sure you could do better huh?

[DEATH0WL]

You can't prove something doesn't exist if it doesn't exist to begin with.

[detonator7]

so whats the point of this argument then

[krasher]

so whats the point of this argument then

To harass Christians.

[detonator7]

wow fun. what about the other religions. or are christians more fun cuz they get angry or just full of it.