Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline Dr Woomanchu

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I've always loved the "perfect for life " argument.

We evolved here, it would be pretty bloody strange if conditions weren't perfectly suited.

Reply #4625 Posted: March 17, 2008, 09:58:07 am

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Offline psyche

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Quote from: Ngati_Grim;677618
Actually, what's NOT amazing about that? It blows me away! Gives me a sense of perspective and wonder (but not religious awe, I'm afraid!).



that's nice. Yet the Sun, the Moon and the Earth are the only planets truly significant to us. Yeah, the sheer size of some of the other planets and stars is amazing, but ultimately they are there just to look pretty.



Quote from: Ngati_Grim;677618
How big is it again?


Look it up.
 

Quote from: Ngati_Grim;677618
Known being the keyword, which then makes a mockery of the word coincidence in this context, if, as it looks, you are trying to imply some sort of I.D?


What?



Quote from: Ngati_Grim;677618
Why is it unlikely?


Stephen Hawking:

Quote
We do not know how DNA molecules first appeared. The chances against a DNA molecule arising by random fluctuations are VERY SMALL. Some have therefore suggested that life came from elsewhere, and that there are seeds of life floating around in the galaxy. However, it seems unlikely that DNA could survive for long in the radiation of space. And even if it could, it would not really help explain the origin of life, because the time available since the formation of carbon is only just over double the age of Earth.


DNA/RNA molecules/whatever were placed on/guided to this perfectly adapted planet for a REASON. Just like it's more probable that these RNA molecules didn't just randomly, spontaneously somehow develop into life but they were specifically coded with the necessary attributes to develop into life.

There is a very very tiny, minute possibility that life has managed to develop elsewhere in the universe. But I highly doubt it, and I'll let you guys wait around for scientists to discover extraterrestrial life to emerge so it might give some significance to your otherwise sad and meaningless existences. Me, I'm more concerned about the origin and happenings of our own planet that seems to have been purposefully created for us rather than some random planet in the oblivion of space.



 
Quote from: Ngati_Grim;677618

Well, the last bit I am inclined to slightly agree with. Our concept of Life is based entirely on our knowledge (of course) but there could well be silica-based, methane-based, iron-based, or other such life forms, and they may not be recognisable to us.
The first bit though is bunkum and supposition. We may well find Life, or it may well be too far away given our position at the periphery of the Milky Way.



1: I'm not sure what electro convulsive therapy has to do with it, though it does sound a bit "Frankensteinien".
2: See above. What you listed are some of the requirements for OUR understanding of Life, here, on this speck of a planet.



Yeah, again unlikely, if there chances of methane-based, iron-based or other such life forms then we would see evidence of these developing here on Earth.


Quote from: Dr_Woohoo;677623
I've always loved the "perfect for life " argument.

We evolved here, it would be pretty bloody strange if conditions weren't perfectly suited.



No it wouldn't, if conditions weren't absolutely perfect here on Earth it would be evidence that everything is completely random, when in fact it is evidence against everything being completely random. When Earth first developed, it already had a specific purpose in the grand scheme of things.

Geez, some of you are so very determined to try and prove that everything is just a random coincidence, it's kinda pathetic. I'm still getting neg rep just for posting in this thread which goes to show you truly pathetic some of you are.

All I can say is, WAKE UP.

Quote from: Tiwaking!;677604
Klericul Yrir - Spokesman for God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=


Hi. You seem to have a habit of linking to morons on Youtube. Newsflash: Youtube is full of crazy morons. There are plenty of crazy morons who aren't religious and don't believe in God too, ya know? Why aren't you linking to any of them? What exactly is the point, if any, you are trying to make by linking to these videos?

Quote from: Black Heart;677600
there is a band of orbit around a lot of stars that could hold planets capable of supporting life like ours, but we're not very good at detecting planets because they don't emit light.
Additionally we can only look for life like our own, when quite possibly theres life that exists without the conditions we need to survive.


What kind of life would that be?

Quote from: Black Heart;677600
scientists haven't created life, so what ?


Scientists will never create life from non-life. Deal with it.

Quote from: Black Heart;677600
If your trying to say this is some kind of evidence against science, and therefore strengthens a case for creation, then all your doing is setting yourself up for a fall, science is continually advancing. Sorry, if all the answers aren't just sitting there ready for you at birth, but humanity dicked around following religious doctrine throughout it's history and progress has been slow.


Actually the Bible and other religious figures accurately predicted many things before scientists were even able to discover them, so I think that's an absolute crock of shit and you're just looking for a reason to bash religion as usual. I think the reason you are so determined to disprove creation and the existence of God is because if you ever came to face our Creator, you would have a life of disbelief, hate of your fellow man and mockery towards religion to explain, and that would almost certainly not go down too well. :)

one last note: I was watching a movie the other night called The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams based on the book. I think some of you might appreciate the movie more than I could since Douglas Adams was an atheist - I thought the premise was fairly stupid (and apparently so did quite a few others) but it's full of lots of wit and is quite funny, like Marvin the depressed robot installed with a human personality and Deep Thought, the supercomputer built by man to compute the meaning of Life, existence and the Meaning of Everything.  It's quite good and I recommend it as worth a watch.

Reply #4626 Posted: March 17, 2008, 01:58:20 pm
The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms, this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness. -Einstein

Offline Ngati_Grim

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Quote from: psyche;677727
that's nice. Yet the Sun, the Moon and the Earth are the only planets truly significant to us. Yeah, the sheer size of some of the other planets and stars is amazing, but ultimately they are there just to look pretty.

On who's authority do you have that priceless information?


Quote from: psyche;677727
Yeah, again unlikely, if there chances of methane-based, iron-based or other such life forms then we would see evidence of these developing here on Earth.


Balls, Inspector!
 Earth is perfectly adapted for carbon-based life forms. there are, however, methanophiles and other extremophiles which point toward the possibility of other forms of life, elsewhere, completely alien.


Quote from: psyche;677727
When Earth first developed, it already had a specific purpose in the grand scheme of things.

Do you have any idea of what the conditions on Earth were like during the Hadean/Archean?


Quote from: psyche;677727
All I can say is, WAKE UP.

To what?


 
Quote
Originally Posted by Black Heart  View Post
there is a band of orbit around a lot of stars that could hold planets capable of supporting life like ours, but we're not very good at detecting planets because they don't emit light.
Additionally we can only look for life like our own, when quite possibly theres life that exists without the conditions we need to survive.

Quote from: psyche;677727
What kind of life would that be?

Alien life, I guess!


Quote from: psyche;677727
Actually the Bible and other religious figures accurately predicted many things before scientists were even able to discover them,

Examples please

Reply #4627 Posted: March 17, 2008, 02:50:48 pm
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Offline Black Heart

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so if life exists/ed elsewhere psyche, does that not prove we aren't 'the shit' theres no need for us to be here for a 'reason', and that if one thing you beleive about god is false, amny/all of it could be ?

It wont prove god doesn't exist, last time i checked nobody set out to try and do that. But hopefully the arrogant few who feel as though they are gods chosen, will get a reality check. And maybe fix their paranoid mindset about how people are trying to destroy their beleifs, when infact while their beleifs may fade away its merely a side effect and not a very interesting one, when the big picture is looked at.

Reply #4628 Posted: March 17, 2008, 03:43:24 pm

Offline KiLL3r

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psyche you are totally dogmatic in your beliefs. i bet even if the evidence was right there in front of your face youd still deny it. at least other people here are open in their beliefs not closed minded bigots such as yourself.

Reply #4629 Posted: March 17, 2008, 06:40:11 pm


Offline psyche

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oh grow up already :disappoin

Reply #4630 Posted: March 17, 2008, 06:48:07 pm
The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms, this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness. -Einstein

Offline D_Unit

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Reply #4631 Posted: March 17, 2008, 06:58:19 pm

Offline psyche

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Quote from: D_Unit112;677913
no you are


NAH YOUR FACE

Reply #4632 Posted: March 17, 2008, 07:09:30 pm
The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms, this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness. -Einstein

Offline cnvrt02

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Quote from: KiLL3r;677893
psyche you are totally dogmatic in your beliefs. i bet even if the evidence was right there in front of your face youd still deny it. at least other people here are open in their beliefs not closed minded bigots such as yourself.


LOL!! FUCKING LOL!oh wow just wow :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

The hypocrisy you display is beyond epic funny.

it's almost as good as my sig!

Reply #4633 Posted: March 17, 2008, 07:09:53 pm

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: cnvrt02;677923
LOL!! FUCKING LOL!oh wow just wow :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

The hypocrisy you display is beyond epic funny.

it's almost as good as my sig!

your a epic reason for sterilization. now please explain how i am a hyprocrite for calling psyche closed minded? My opinion changes when the evidence changes.

heres a good example of new evidence that could have changed my opinion but of course the info was false.

Quote from: KiLL3r;675336
was watching another video with "evilution" and had something about t-rex blood which would mean the earth could be 6000 years old!

but after some research i found it was true they had found something that resembled blood cells but no conclusive proof it was because the bones were 6000 years old. I then found the whole 6000 y/o trex story had been spun by some young earth creationist. what a suprise.


Science +1

but its expected for you to side with psyche. after all stupid thrives in company

Reply #4634 Posted: March 17, 2008, 07:46:15 pm


Offline cnvrt02

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Quote from: KiLL3r;677950
your a epic reason for sterilization. now please explain how i am a hyprocrite for calling psyche closed minded? My opinion changes when the evidence changes.

heres a good example of new evidence that could have changed my opinion but of course the info was false.



but its expected for you to side with psyche. after all stupid thrives in company


i am going to love saying this, I am an Atheist my self.

i am not going to go through this thread to prove my point, it's sad enough you can't see it.

i think my sig proves it enough anyway.

Reply #4635 Posted: March 17, 2008, 08:15:07 pm

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: cnvrt02;677977
i am going to love saying this, I am an Atheist my self.

i am not going to go through this thread to prove my point, it's sad enough you can't see it.

i think my sig proves it enough anyway.


why are you avoiding my question?

Reply #4636 Posted: March 17, 2008, 08:26:47 pm


Offline cnvrt02

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Quote from: KiLL3r;677983
why are you avoiding my question?


i did, you just don't want to read it.

Reply #4637 Posted: March 17, 2008, 08:37:55 pm

Offline Zarkov

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Quote from: cnvrt02;677977
i love my self.

i am going to go through this thread to prove my point, it's sad you see.

i think my sig proves it enough anyway.



?

Reply #4638 Posted: March 17, 2008, 08:41:08 pm

Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: Zarkov;677994
?

I cant wait for the Romulans to recieve my telepathic signals and save me from this moronic cesspit called 'Earth'. Then I'll finally have one of the tools necessary to render the existence of God moot

Reply #4639 Posted: March 17, 2008, 09:19:20 pm
I am now banned from GetSome

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: cnvrt02;677977
i am going to love saying this, I am an Atheist my self.

i am not going to go through this thread to prove my point, it's sad enough you can't see it.

i think my sig proves it enough anyway.


Quote from: cnvrt02;677989
i did, you just don't want to read it.


hmm so wheres the part that proves i was a hypocrite in my previous statement?

Reply #4640 Posted: March 17, 2008, 09:34:59 pm


Offline Bounty Hunter

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ok so you've got a land mass miles away from any other land mass with no major predators on it.

the local bird life become flightless as there is no need for a quick get away, it's food source is in the ground and it's warmer closer to the ground due to the sub tropical location of the land mass.

men show up and kill off a large bird, man is greater than the bird, the birds inability to repel man or escape him makes him weaker, therefore he dies.

Reply #4641 Posted: March 18, 2008, 12:18:15 am
"We are the majority we arent the tards, the people we pick on are." -Luse_K

Offline cobra

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Reply #4642 Posted: March 20, 2008, 01:38:17 am

Offline krasher

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That sucks. First example has little to do with Christianity, second example is a disgrace.

No exactly a case for Christianity being dangerous so much as a case for power being corrupting. I am sure. In fact I know of many many examples of 'secular' institutions doing just as much or more damage. So what's the point. People are not perfect? They project their own ways of dealing with things on to people rather than finding out what people really need? This problem is not isolated to Christianity.

You are fighting a straw man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Reply #4643 Posted: March 20, 2008, 08:32:48 am
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Offline Black Heart

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i think the point is that christianity is linked to as many flawed practises and atrocious acts as any other human group. christianity can be as far away from it's own interpretation of god as any aetheist in its actions.

If only a christian had said christianity was flawless and only ever did good... lol.

Reply #4644 Posted: March 20, 2008, 08:54:49 am

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: Bounty Hunter;678095
ok so you've got a land mass miles away from any other land mass with no major predators on it.

the local bird life become flightless as there is no need for a quick get away, it's food source is in the ground and it's warmer closer to the ground due to the sub tropical location of the land mass.

men show up and kill off a large bird, man is greater than the bird, the birds inability to repel man or escape him makes him weaker, therefore he dies.

Welcome to 18th Century New Zealand :chuckle:

Reply #4645 Posted: March 20, 2008, 09:31:12 am

Offline Ngati_Grim

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Quote from: krasher;679188


No exactly a case for Christianity being dangerous so much as a case for power being corrupting. I am sure. In fact I know of many many examples of 'secular' institutions doing just as much or more damage. So what's the point. People are not perfect? They project their own ways of dealing with things on to people rather than finding out what people really need? This problem is not isolated to Christianity.


I actually agree with you here. I'm sure we could all find articles about all manner of beliefs that have been usurped to make points, from many cultures and perspectives.
This is more to do with the 'human condition' than personal beliefs.
However, this doesn't change my personal stance (bias?), but come on, let's try to get some balance eh?

Reply #4646 Posted: March 20, 2008, 09:46:36 am
Recycle your red poppies, paint them white, and wear them throughout the year.

Offline SteddieEddie

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Quote from: Ngati_Grim;
I actually agree with you here. I'm sure we could all find articles about all manner of beliefs that have been usurped to make points, from many cultures and perspectives.
This is more to do with the 'human condition' than personal beliefs.
However, this doesn't change my personal stance (bias?), but come on, let's try to get some balance eh?


You Rock:rnr::rnr::rnr::rnr::rnr::rnr::rnr:

Reply #4647 Posted: March 20, 2008, 11:47:48 am

Offline krasher

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Quote from: Black Heart;679193
i think the point is that christianity is linked to as many flawed practises and atrocious acts as any other human group. christianity can be as far away from it's own interpretation of god as any aetheist in its actions.

If only a christian had said christianity was flawless and only ever did good... lol.

Not exactly sure what you are saying here, but yeah, I never said it was flawless, and I think I agree with you here.

Quote from: Ngati_Grim;679211
I actually agree with you here. I'm sure we could all find articles about all manner of beliefs that have been usurped to make points, from many cultures and perspectives.
This is more to do with the 'human condition' than personal beliefs.
However, this doesn't change my personal stance (bias?), but come on, let's try to get some balance eh?

Nice.

Ok, lets not get too agreeable, this thread might become tolerable. :P

Reply #4648 Posted: March 20, 2008, 11:50:31 am
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Offline Black Heart

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yea we do agree.
christianity is evil... no wait christianity is linked to evil organisations... no i mean bad people can be christian aswell, which explains why it's so popular in prisons.

ROFL. I crack me up. / post not to be taken seriously.

Reply #4649 Posted: March 20, 2008, 12:02:46 pm