Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[cobra]

Well, I searched for "character references for cobra from iconzarena" on Google, and got no hits ... so ... yikes.

i guess if you can't argue the topic...........

Which religion is choc full of nutters, the one where they raise their hands up and fall over when pushed by the priest? Those guys are complete basket cases.

my friend who does aikido can do that priest dropping trick

[ThaFleastyler]

i guess if you can't argue the topic...........

Oh, I could argue the topic, I just thought that since you had established a trend of using near-inadmissable, totally-unrelated Google searches to prove your point, I would join the fun Point being, come up with something more than an inadmissable Google search.

[dirtyape]

Serious question....say theres a man, and this man has lead an absolutely blameless life, never done anything wrong, never sinned, never coveted his neighbour's ass etc.

Is there such a man? Can a man make it through childhood without doing something wrong? Children learn by experience, and that means making mistakes.

But....he refuses to acknowledge Gods existence....he doesnt hate God or have anything against him, he just doesnt have an opinion one way or the other....

Will he still get into heaven or at least be given a chance ?

According to most Christian's I've argued with about this subject, if the man knows about god/jesus and denies his existence intentionally then he is going to hell regardless. Now this is completely different if you haven't heard about God/Jesus.

First - the bible clearly states that the only way to heaven is through Jesus.

Now, the interesting thing is that if that is true then everyone who existed prior to Jesus had absolutely no chance of getting into Heaven. Jesus didn't exist, so how would they accept him? And same goes for babies, infants, foetus's that die before being able to understand what god is or accept Jesus. What about the intellectually handicapped that are incapable of understanding what Jesus is?

Seems that those who were writing the bible didn't think about these things. But the Christian scholars later came up with the awesome solution which is limbo, forever. Indeed it is the only solution possible if the bible is taken literally. "Limbo" is not mentioned anywhere in the bible, like "rapture" it is something that was derived.



The Mole (Dying): "Where is your God when you need him? Huh? Where is your beautiful, merciful faggot now? *cough* Here I come, God. Here I come, you fucking rat... *cough*"

Amen.

[brucewillis2]

First - the bible clearly states that the only way to heaven is through Jesus.

Now, the interesting thing is that if that is true then everyone who existed prior to Jesus had absolutely no chance of getting into Heaven. Jesus didn't exist, so how would they accept him? And same goes for babies, infants, foetus's that die before being able to understand what god is or accept Jesus. What about the intellectually handicapped that are incapable of understanding what Jesus is?

awesome point!! - another hole in religion. It's beginning to look like a sieve

[Arnifix]

It all depends on your breed of religion I guess.

[Spigalau]

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

King James Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

American King James Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

American Standard Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Bible in Basic English
At the first God made the heaven and the earth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

Darby Bible Translation
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Revised Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Webster's Bible Translation
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

World English Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth --

-----

So is the one Heaven or multiple Heavens ?

[Das]

Spigulau, A) why are you deleting my posts? Do you have some kind of personal issues?

B) Those aren't all completely different versions of the Bible. They are different translations, translated from many different languages over thousands over years.

[krasher]

The problem with you guys theorising about the bible is that you have not read or studied it enough.

Things changed between the new and old testament. That is why it is said the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.  Different story in the old....because obviously there was no Jesus on earth yet etc etc.

[Retardobot]

Spigulau, A) why are you deleting my posts? Do you have some kind of personal issues?

Look.

Your posts are being deleted because it is the only way for you to be removed from this forum for being disruptive and ignorant.

Banning you has proved nothing as you keep making new accounts. So, in order to place punishment for breaking the rules of these forums your posts are being deleted.

Stop acting so innocent as if the sun shines out your arse.

[Das]

Oh right. But it's okay for Ngati to call me 'deluded', and it's okay for Cobra to make comments like 'You have a chimps intelligence', that's perfectly fine, but as soon as I return an insult people kick up a fuss and I get banned?

Why are  they allowed to get away with personally abusing someone?

[Chilli]

^ LOL'D

So is the one Heaven or multiple Heavens ?

Well Mormons say theres multiple 'levels' so yeah theyre saying theres more than one.

[Retardobot]

Well Mormons say theres multiple 'levels' so yeah theyre saying there more than one.

According to John Saffran, Mormons underpants are also supposed to contain super powers...

[Chilli]

According to John Saffran, Mormons underpants are also supposed to contain super powers...

Lol John Safran's a fucking legend!!!

He cracks me up. And hes probably right on the undies, 'god' knows hes snatched a few :chuckle:

[Ngati_Grim]

The problem with you guys theorising about the bible is that you have not read or studied it enough.

Judgement call!

So, either it is open to interpretation, or it is literal?...or maybe both?

[Chilli]

Things changed between the new and old testament. That is why it is said the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.  Different story in the old....because obviously there was no Jesus on earth yet etc etc.

With all due respect Krasher, it sounds like a big bunch of Chinese whispers imo.

[cobra]

Psyche.... was just removed?

Psyche never existed, we dont use his name any more - and be careful using his name, unless you want to be removed as well

[Dr Woomanchu]

The problem with you guys theorising about the bible is that you have not read or studied it enough.

Things changed between the new and old testament. That is why it is said the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.  Different story in the old....because obviously there was no Jesus on earth yet etc etc.

I was raised with the damn thing. It was watching biblical scholars prevaricate and BS about what was literal, what was allegorical, and what just had to be "interpreted" correctly that raised the absurdity of christian belief to the point I escaped.

I have no issues with the story of Jesus as a moral tome (few of my ethics would contradict the teachings of the character Jesus), but the bible as any kind of literal truth is absurd in the extreme

[Retardobot]

I have to admit. What Blobby said earlier has been something that i have always been at odds with.

In fact, it actually angers me.

For a religion that bases itself on love, care, health and unity it seems insanely contradictive that the big boss employs things like "Love me or you will spend eternity in hell being ripped apart".

It just makes it so difficult when Christians try to spread the good word of God by saying that God/Jesus loves us no matter what and all we have to do is accept it. But, if we don't then he throws his toys out of the cot and has us turned into dog food?

Also, i have noticed that some Christians also use the stand point of "to love God you must fear him".

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. - (Gen. 1:26-27 NIV)

If God created man in his own image, then why am i able to have someone turn their back on me, disown me, beat me but STILL have the ability and decency to want to save their life if the situation ever presented itself. Yet if you turn your back on God, he tells you to fuck off and spend eternity in the pits of Hell.

[cobra]

Now, the interesting thing is that if that is true then everyone who existed prior to Jesus had absolutely no chance of getting into Heaven. Jesus didn't exist, so how would they accept him? And same goes for babies, infants, foetus's that die before being able to understand what god is or accept Jesus. What about the intellectually handicapped that are incapable of understanding what Jesus is?

Also anyone born into a non christian country, any one god created to be homosexual, and any one created with an inquiring intelligent mind has been condemned to an eternity in hell- if god exists i dont want any part of his cruel games

[brucewillis2]

Also anyone born into a non christian country, any one god created to be homosexual, and any one created with an inquiring intelligent mind has been condemned to an eternity in hell- if god exists i dont want any part of his cruel games

yeah what about those gay people, they can come to heaven as well.

Believe it or not people with glasses (bad vision) were frowned upon in the bible. It will take a miracle to find the link but this preacher in AUS when on and on about gays going to hell that they read the bible and pointed out the part in the bible about bad vision.

*me goes off to find the news article

people with glasses - you're going to HELL!
http://bible.cc/matthew/6-23.htm

[Arnifix]

^ LOL'D

 Well Mormons say theres multiple 'levels' so yeah theyre saying theres more than one.

So Heaven is an MMORPG? BRB, killing Divine Pigs for xp.

[detonator7]

people with glasses - you're going to HELL!
http://bible.cc/matthew/6-23.htm

The word hell is never mentioned on that page.

"But if your eye is evil, your whole body will be full of darkness." People read, and understand the bible in many different ways, and if you want to think that's talking about people with glasses then that's up to you. What I get out of it is that the evil is sin. So to me it's saying that if you sin with your eyes (e.g adultery), it's just as bad as your whole body sinning.

It all comes down what version you read though, because yes, some of them do say "But if your eye is bad", but then the word bad could mean a few different things (like evil or poor quality).

[Ngati_Grim]

"In America, as nowhere else, science, especially paleontology, evolutionary biology, and geology, are assaulted from one of those very different sides of America. You have heard about it, because we have made it a very big issue, even though it has been almost exclusively American. And it is rising again. Let me briefly fill everyone in on it, although it is far more complex than can be dealt with in this editorial. It is creationism--that religious viewpoint that the Bible (King James Version) is literally correct; especially The Book of Genesis. This view is held vehemently, particularly by evangelical, largely fundamental, Protestants in the United States. Creationists are not easily classified, for even they themselves don't see the scriptures in the same way and differ in their own interpretations of what they believe. But they cause much confusion in the general public and degrade science whenever they can.

link

It is happening more and more. I can see on the Campus here a broadsheet produced by the Student Christian Movement and a discussion/lecture schedule which carries on this theme.
I find it disturbing, not for the expressing of personal beliefs, but the expression that these beliefs are the only way to go.

Anyway, read the link if you can. these aren't just America's problems.

[cobra]

"In America, as nowhere else, science, especially paleontology, evolutionary biology, and geology, are assaulted from one of those very different sides of America. You have heard about it, because we have made it a very big issue, even though it has been almost exclusively American. And it is rising again. Let me briefly fill everyone in on it, although it is far more complex than can be dealt with in this editorial. It is creationism--that religious viewpoint that the Bible (King James Version) is literally correct; especially The Book of Genesis. This view is held vehemently, particularly by evangelical, largely fundamental, Protestants in the United States. Creationists are not easily classified, for even they themselves don't see the scriptures in the same way and differ in their own interpretations of what they believe. But they cause much confusion in the general public and degrade science whenever they can.

link

It is happening more and more. I can see on the Campus here a broadsheet produced by the Student Christian Movement and a discussion/lecture schedule which carries on this theme.
I find it disturbing, not for the expressing of personal beliefs, but the expression that these beliefs are the only way to go.

Anyway, read the link if you can. these aren't just America's problems.

I was wondering if this thread had died for good or not

it is worrying that there are campus movements, university should be about free thinking and new ideas, not promoting ignorance

[philo-sofa]

I was wondering if this thread had died for good or not

it is worrying that there are campus movements, university should be about free thinking and new ideas, not promoting ignorance

 I remember at Auckland Uni, about 2006, there was a creationish lecture and 'creationism book vomiting onto the general population' event held.  What really riled me was that it was held in the maths/physics building. I managed to restrain myself from throwing the table of books across the room and screaming at the creationists, though I did steal every one of their signs and squirrel them away for the student union.

A big regret is that we never found out who'd authorised that shit.

Reasonable debate I'm ok with, but literal mindless vehment creationism lectures (I went in briefly, wasn't even I.D.) in the science faculty building, in New Zealand?  FFS!!!