Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Dr Woomanchu]

I have to disagree on this point, you can't just lump them into two camps. For instance I'm a Christian and have done a fair bit of research into all this stuff and I can find no reason why evolution disproves God OR creationism. All it means is that from the time if initial creation there has been change in the species that were created, call it evolution, advanced adaptation or whatever you want but that doesn't mean God didn't create it all in the beginning.

The same goes for the "universe", God may have created it looking very different to the way it is now and allowed science to shape it. Hell he might have even used a "big bang" somewhere along the line.

I think you'll find you fit with the majority of of theists in this position. It's only a small minority of wacko nutjob fundies who believe their faith is more valid than reality

[philo-sofa]

Do you mean  pedantry?  :chuckle:


It's o.k Philo, I wasn't disagreeing, just adding to the arsenal (go spurs!)

Arse-en-alllllll!!!

Yeah TBH I feel I learnt a fair bit from reading it up.  Maybe I should fill my spare time at work with reading decent material rather than spamming forums....

Nah.

[brucewillis2]

I have to disagree on this point, you can't just lump them into two camps. For instance I'm a Christian and have done a fair bit of research into all this stuff and I can find no reason why evolution disproves God OR creationism. All it means is that from the time if initial creation there has been change in the species that were created, call it evolution, advanced adaptation or whatever you want but that doesn't mean God didn't create it all in the beginning.

but don't you have to use what is written in the bible as part of your belief? It states how he created the world, how he created man. Who wrote this passage in the bible anyway?

[Ngati_Grim]

If only Jesus was as big as a blue whale. I'd love to own an apron made from his foreskin.

Apparently, at one time there were four foreskins around. Must have had a big shlong...so perhaps the blue whale analogy is apt!

Other things:

Luke is no reference for the historical Jesus as he (Luke) has no historicity.
Paul had no interest in historicity.

The relics are fabrications from later dates to embolden the faith of the people.
There was a teacher called Jeshua Ben Joseph from Nazareth who was crucified for some reason, but that is as far as documentation goes.


(This was from a conversation with my Bro, over the phone, in about two minutes. Will try to get some more information presently).

[Arnifix]

I once heard some interesting things about the number of fingers Jesus must have had if the relics are to be believed. That, combined with the foreskin info, leads me to believe in Jesuthlhu.

[brucewillis2]

(This was from a conversation with my Bro, over the phone, in about two minutes. Will try to get some more information presently).

what does you brother do? sounds like he might be welcome here with info like that.

[Ngati_Grim]

see this: http://forums.iconzarena.co.nz/showthread.php?t=27666&page=182

post #5433

He's a theologian, teaches Christianity....not how to be a christian, but what christianity is and where it came from...Nah, he doesn't like these sorts of forums...prefers the rl face-to-face version.


I can act like the pope and be his intermediary though! :asian:

[Arnifix]

I can act like the pope and be his intermediary though! :asian:

I'm not certain your hat is big enough. It's a prerequsite for that kind of job.

[Ngati_Grim]

True, I have a small head.

Maybe I should have "   " ?

[brucewillis2]

see this: http://forums.iconzarena.co.nz/showthread.php?t=27666&page=182

post #5433

He's a theologian, teaches Christianity....not how to be a christian, but what christianity is and where it came from...Nah, he doesn't like these sorts of forums...prefers the rl face-to-face version.


I can act like the pope and be his intermediary though! :asian:

oh man that guy would be awesome to have around here. It'll be like a group of people having a loud chaotic argument and he walks into the room and everyone hushes. "he is right, you are wrong"... then leaves. the room is now filled with people nodding their heads in agreement.

[Ngati_Grim]

I agree, but then there is still that 'small' matter of 'faith'.

Other theologians may disagree with him , as well...remember the alamo...ummm...I mean the Geering controversy! (Geering also taught my Father, who was a Presbyterian Minister...so I am very much the Black Sheep!).

[ThumbsUpGuy]

but don't you have to use what is written in the bible as part of your belief? It states how he created the world, how he created man. Who wrote this passage in the bible anyway?

When it comes to my immortal soul I stand slightly apart from most Christians (and I would strain to point out that I am closer to a Protestant as opposed to a Catholic) in that I am not entirely satisfied with putting it in the hands of a book. I also stumble on the ideas of worshipping a human as God's equal and the Jesus biscuit.

[frog.]

see this: [url]not how to be a christian, but what christianity is and where it came from...

I can act like the pope and be his intermediary though! :asian:

Is it possible for your bro to sum up in a few short paragraphs what he thinks christianity is and where it came from?

[huey31415]

190 pages? There was a thread just like this on GameArena this week that lasted only 3 days. Religion won.  :angel:

One of the main problems with what the atheists were saying was that they thought their own ignorance and stupidity changed reality for everyone else; i.e. if they don't notice God, He doesn't exist at all. They also had unrealistic expectations about proving anything related to religion and offered no explanation for miracles.

[nick247]

rumour has it that anyone who watches disaster movie will agree there is no god

[Ngati_Grim]

Is it possible for your bro to sum up in a few short paragraphs what he thinks christianity is and where it came from?

I'll ask...but realise that a few short paragraphs willget you neither here nor there.

[Arnifix]

rumour has it that anyone who watches disaster movie will agree there is no god

Those movies are worse than the holocaust.

[ThumbsUpGuy]

Those movies are worse than the holocaust.

Muchly:multi:

[cobra]

190 pages? There was a thread just like this on GameArena this week that lasted only 3 days. Religion won.  :angel:

One of the main problems with what the atheists were saying was that they thought their own ignorance and stupidity changed reality for everyone else; i.e. if they don't notice God, He doesn't exist at all. They also had unrealistic expectations about proving anything related to religion and offered no explanation for miracles.

can you offer an explanation why no miracles have ever been recorded in this modern age where a lot of people carry cameras?

and by not noticing god do you mean that god has never had a measurable impact on any thing?

[ThaFleastyler]

190 pages? There was a thread just like this on GameArena this week that lasted only 3 days. Religion won.  :angel:

One of the main problems with what the atheists were saying was that they thought their own ignorance and stupidity changed reality for everyone else; i.e. if they don't notice God, He doesn't exist at all. They also had unrealistic expectations about proving anything related to religion and offered no explanation for miracles.

Can you please provide a link to the thread?
That all sounds a little out of context.

[Dr Woomanchu]

190 pages? There was a thread just like this on GameArena this week that lasted only 3 days. Religion won.  :angel:

One of the main problems with what the atheists were saying was that they thought their own ignorance and stupidity changed reality for everyone else; i.e. if they don't notice God, He doesn't exist at all. They also had unrealistic expectations about proving anything related to religion and offered no explanation for miracles.

You'd have to show an independently documented miracle with all the data available before it could be disproved. This is impossible because if it is independently documented with all data available, it isn't a miracle any more.

BTW which god(s) was it the gamearena atheists weren't noticing? Were they wearing camouflage or something?

[Ngati_Grim]

190 pages? There was a thread just like this on GameArena this week that lasted only 3 days. Religion won.  :angel:

One of the main problems with what the atheists were saying was that they thought their own ignorance and stupidity changed reality for everyone else; i.e. if they don't notice God, He doesn't exist at all. They also had unrealistic expectations about proving anything related to religion and offered no explanation for miracles.

hmmm, I'm interested in this!

I think that we, here, have finally got passed the 'ignorance and stupidity' phase (mostly, on the whole, a generalisation) and have come up with some really interesting points to debate.
Rather than repeat ad infinitum ad nauseum, it may be better,Huey, to go through the whole 190 pages to see the timbres of the discussions change and morph over time.


As a tempter, I suggest that 'miracles' are the products of over-hopeful imaginings coupled with humans' desires and hopes. The mind is powerful in this respect...or do you mean miracles like the virgin's dace on a piece of toast?....


edit: I meant of course 'face'...not Leuciscus leuciscus. I'm  not calling her a fish....though if the carp fits!

[Zarathrustra]

190 pages? There was a thread just like this on GameArena this week that lasted only 3 days. Religion won.  :angel:

One of the main problems with what the atheists were saying was that they thought their own ignorance and stupidity changed reality for everyone else; i.e. if they don't notice God, He doesn't exist at all. They also had unrealistic expectations about proving anything related to religion and offered no explanation for miracles.

There's so much irony rolled up in that, it's not funny.

So much that my ignorant and stupid brain hurts when try to make sense of it.

[Tiwaking!]

190 pages? There was a thread just like this on GameArena this week that lasted only 3 days. Religion won.  :angel:

Which one won?

I voted Rastafarian but have yet to recieve my free counselling session

Spoiler :

Disclaimer: I does not take drugs

[Ngati_Grim]

You don't drink coffee, eat chocolate? I'm disappointed in you Tiwa!

Good point though....My choice would have been the Ancient Greek religion, as the Olympic Gods rocked!