Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[ThaFleastyler]

What did God sound like?
(This is a serious question; not trolling)

It was 6 years ago dude, I can't really remember the exact sound.
It was just a normal, mans voice, I guess.

Remember, I attributed God to the voice; thus, it can't be used to say what God does or does not sound like. I'm also entirely open to the idea that it wasn't God at all - the whole thing is just my experience.

[brucewillis2]

I'm also entirely open to the idea that it wasn't God at all

could of been your neighbour. He's probably so bummed you took it seriously he now doesn't have the heart to tell you it was a prank.

[Bell]

So did god have a womens voice?

[ThaFleastyler]

could of been your neighbour. He's probably so bummed you took it seriously he now doesn't have the heart to tell you it was a prank.

Nah, I was in a car, with a mate, driving in the opposite direction to where it was telling me to go. If I found out it was a prank, that would change alot - particularly how I tell the story.

So did god have a womens voice?

Actually, yes ... sounded suspiciously like Alanis Morrissette, tbh ...

[Dr Woomanchu]

Nah, I was in a car, with a mate, driving in the opposite direction to where it was telling me to go. If I found out it was a prank, that would change alot - particularly how I tell the story.


Actually, yes ... sounded suspiciously like Alanis Morrissette, tbh ...

mwahahaha +1

[mattnz]

Nah, I was in a car, with a mate, driving in the opposite direction to where it was telling me to go. If I found out it was a prank, that would change alot - particularly how I tell the story.


Actually, yes ... sounded suspiciously like Alanis Morrissette, tbh ...

Terrible, terrible movie...

[ThaFleastyler]

mwahahaha +1

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week!
Don't forget to tip your waitress!

[cobra]

For example my contributions and the responses over the last  day or so have distilled a key point for me. What, if any, evidence or occurrence could convince you that your particular god didn't exist? Any scientific hypothesis or "belief" can be easily falsified, and I am genuinely curious if anyone here who genuinely believes in some sort of supreme deity can point to an occurrence or fact that would make them say " Oh, I was wrong, god doesn't objectively exist".

yeah - i ask a while back "what would change your viewpoint" for atheists it is easy, any reasonable evidence of the existance of something or even the need for the existence of something

I have a lot of respect for St!g as he said he was going to need to think about some of the jesus doesn't exist stuff, and i would have immense respect if he changed his viewpoint, a christian who thinks about things, what ever next?

I'm just not responding to (what I view as) personal attacks from Cobra. His approach to the discussion is just pissing me off, and has for a while, to be honest.

you should be angry with be for pointing out your lies, you should be angry with yourself for lying and then harassing me for not exposing your lies straight away tbh

[ThaFleastyler]

you should be angry with be for pointing out your lies, you should be angry with yourself for lying and then harassing me for not exposing your lies straight away tbh

Let's put it to a vote:
People, speak up - if you think I'm lying and should thus leave the thread, say so; or if you think Cobra is just barking up the wrong tree and should drop it, say so. Let's settle this once and for all, because frankly, this is just petty bullshit that is going on now, and it's starting to piss me off.

[cobra]

Let's put it to a vote:
People, speak up - if you think I'm lying and should thus leave the thread, say so; or if you think Cobra is just barking up the wrong tree and should drop it, say so. Let's settle this once and for all, because frankly, this is just petty bullshit that is going on now, and it's starting to piss me off.

flea man, i will drop it

i wasn't going to post it, you put up a "where is your evidence post" so i posted it and you put up a cock "well big fucken deal" if you werent a dick about i would have left it alone, or even a simple "i yeah, i was wrong" and it would have died without a wimper

but i will drop it now

[Who_ate_my_rice]

Its interesting im reading a few posts and its more like atheist vs the christian rather than religion vs science.

I believe in God but i wouldn't say i believe in religion.  I see some terrible things done and taught in the name of religion and i find that dangerous.  One also has to have commonsense.

Could you also say that atheists practice their own religion?  Their religion of not believing in God?

I think believing in our quest for answers, and to why we exist is really one of the defining characteristics on what makes us human.  Even if we believe in a higher power, who has the right to fight tooth and nail to disprove them.  And who has the right to shove God in peoples face if they don't want to hear of it.

As a believer in Christ, i believe it's my job to share the word.  But the Holy Spirits duty convert.  Not mine.  It's the Holy spirits.

I personally don't agree with people putting their foot in your door to try and shove God down your throats.  Those people who try to preach about Krishna to you on the street are in the wrong by their own standards.  Being an indian i;ve been told by other indians, that Krishna spoke out against what these people are doing.   But yet i'd never tell them that.  Why should i?  What purpose would that serve?  they are obviously not right in their own God if they haven't studied their bible enough to know whats right and whats wrong.  

Alot of people say, "oh so you think you are better than me because you're a Christian."  

No! LOL  man its crazy how many people say that.  This is the hard word.  We all have fallen short of the glory of God.  So that means that christians are NOOOOO better than anyone on the face of the earth.  The bible teaches that God has no favourites.

If people are saying or acting otherwise.  Someone better check them because they are not in God.  Infact if i saw someone in church acting like they are better than everyone else, i'd be the first to take them aside and put them in place.

I have friends who were soooooooo angry at the mention of God, but once they realise that im not going to convert them, and they aren't going to convince me he doesn't exist.  They excepted me for who i was and now we're able to have really good conversations about beliefs of different cultures.

So i guess what im trying to say is... with all the attacks which are going on with everyone trying to prove their veiw is better than everyone elses.  I have to say at the end of the day who cares.

My favourite magazine is New Scientist.  Don't ask me why but it fascinates me.  Articles on dark matter, fossils and theoretical physics.  But no one ever asks me, if you believe in God, why do you read such things.  That is because, it has no effect on my belief.  To me spiritual knowledge is something entirely different.

Believers of any religion will continue to believe.  And atheists will still follow their own beliefs too.  Unless of course either one of these groups decide they will no longer believe, or an athiests decides he will believe... This is Free Will. Why are some people so determined to make other people think like them?

Respect each others differences.  Don't get personal.

A bit more than what i wanted to write but i thought i'd put my opinion up for discussion

PAYCE~~!!  DINNER TIME OH YERRRRRR

[ThaFleastyler]

if you werent a dick about i would have left it alone, or even a simple "i yeah, i was wrong" and it would have died without a wimper

So you wanted me to admit I was a liar, and all would have been sweet?
No can do, buddy, because I honestly don't believe I am a liar.

[Dr Woomanchu]

Great post. 2 quotes stood out for me

I think believing in our quest for answers, and to why we exist is really one of the defining characteristics on what makes us human.

My favourite magazine is New Scientist. Don't ask me why but it fascinates me. Articles on dark matter, fossils and theoretical physics. But no one ever asks me, if you believe in God, why do you read such things. That is because, it has no effect on my belief. To me spiritual knowledge is something entirely different.

I like arguing with people who claim that where science and religion clash, science is wrong. That's a different position from others who argue against religious belief per se.

In my own philosophy the universe only exists because sentience is here to observe it, as it is fundamentally subjective.

The universe we perceive and measure is shaped by our senses and interpretation. We think in terms of solids because that's our perceptive universe but things are 'solid" only in our perception. To a neutrino based sentience, a tree would barely exist and be almost impossible to detect.

So our universe is fundamentally subjective. In that sense if your universe requires a very real and present god, then that's no better or worse than my universe which has no need of a pilot.

Science is about what we can measure and analyse and understand. When we talk about evolution, conservation of momentum, and relativity we speak from a position of knowledge. The claims made are based on repeatedly  fulfilled predictions and independently reproducible data.

Religion is fundamentally human. it tries to understand the universe as experienced and perceived by people. The very core of science is that it tries to minimise the human factor. It tries to gain an understanding of the universe that is independent of our personal experience. Our gods die with us, the science remains.

I take issue when religious belief tries to contradict what science does understand. If a scientist tried to deny religious belief I would rebut that as well.

NB: I don't buy into the hassling religious people line. If people don't want their beliefs challenged they shouldn't participate in this thread.

[Zig]

Awesome post Rice. Concur 100%

I like arguing with people who claim that where science and religion clash, science is wrong. That's a different position from others who argue against religious belief per se.



I take issue when religious belief tries to contradict what science does understand. If a scientist tried to deny religious belief I would rebut that as well.

It is a pretty fundamental concept that you cannot use Science to either prove or disprove the possible existence of a God. Setting out a base condition that there is or isn't a God;

If there is a God, then in all probability he is external of this world. Using the physical concepts that he created, such as time and space to try and prove/disprove him is obviously futile.

If there is not a God, well....this is rather tautological....

What I am saying is that because of it's limits Science cannot disprove the concept of God, but refuting and/or supporting religions based on evidence is mostly within its limits. This is why I believe that everyone, religious or not, should continue to have an open mind to all evidence that may be presented.

NB: I don't buy into the hassling religious people line. If people don't want their beliefs challenged they shouldn't participate in this thread.

And by hassling I think Rice meant actual abuse. Whats going on in this thread is hardly abuse (bar one or two posts). Most of you guys are posting up well informed and reasonably open-minded arguments, and I appreciate that effort to engage in a discussion that actually means something.

[Zarkov]

It was 6 years ago dude, I can't really remember the exact sound.
It was just a normal, mans voice, I guess.

Remember, I attributed God to the voice; thus, it can't be used to say what God does or does not sound like. I'm also entirely open to the idea that it wasn't God at all - the whole thing is just my experience.

I imagine god would sound like Johnny Cash.

[KiLL3r]

Awesome post Rice. Concur 100%


It is a pretty fundamental concept that you cannot use Science to either prove or disprove the possible existence of a God. Setting out a base condition that there is or isn't a God;

If there is a God, then in all probability he is external of this world. Using the physical concepts that he created, such as time and space to try and prove/disprove him is obviously futile.

If there is not a God, well....this is rather tautological....

What I am saying is that because of it's limits Science cannot disprove the concept of God, but refuting and/or supporting religions based on evidence is mostly within its limits. This is why I believe that everyone, religious or not, should continue to have an open mind to all evidence that may be presented.

why isnt it possible for science to prove god?

doesnt your god just have a superior knowledge of everything around us?

eg. a ligthbulb. if you had never seen one you wouldnt know how they worked. If i told you how then you have learned that knowledge and are then able to create your own lightbulbs.
same applys for godly powers. once you understand how it all works then you too could dom the same miracles. only drawback being these  things dont happen naturally around us so we cannt learn from them. this either means they dont exist or we just havnt discovered them yet.

everything is attainable with the right knowledge and that is exactly what science does, it searches for new knowledge.

knowledge is power and with the right kind you can do anything.

[Zarkov]

why isnt it possible for science to prove god?

doesnt your god just have a superior knowledge of everything around us?

eg. a ligthbulb. if you had never seen one you wouldnt know how they worked. If i told you how then you have learned that knowledge and are then able to create your own lightbulbs.
same applys for godly powers. once you understand how it all works then you too could dom the same miracles. only drawback being these  things dont happen naturally around us so we cannt learn from them. this either means they dont exist or we just havnt discovered them yet.

everything is attainable with the right knowledge and that is exactly what science does, it searches for new knowledge.

knowledge is power and with the right kind you can do anything.

If there really was a god, he would have struck you down by now.

[UppityDuck]

I imagine god would sound like Johnny Cash.

[video]AO9dbmJ_2zU[/video]


or

[video]1e0EQlQXoEo[/video]

?

[Dr Woomanchu]

Johnny Cash - Hurt. Recorded after his wife died. To any theists who believe atheists have no soul, this recording is the rebuttal. The truth Cash brings to this song is something science will never understand.

When NIN recorded it, it was indulgent, when Cash recorded, it was truth.

[UppityDuck]

When NIN recorded it, it was indulgent, when Cash recorded, it was truth.

Yeah man, it cuts to the quick. One of my favourite covers of all time.

[cobra]

Awesome post Rice. Concur 100%

It is a pretty fundamental concept that you cannot use Science to either prove or disprove the possible existence of a God. Setting out a base condition that there is or isn't a God;

science can not be used to prove things dont exist, science looks for things and the only way you can get the idea that they dont exist is if you cant find them

there is no god that has a measurable impact on reality, any observation on perceived impact that supposable comes from god soon rules god out and any that god that were to exist is exactly the same as no god.

it seems to me absurd that people can believe there is a god but not find any ways in which this god separates himself from no god and how people can not see how surprising it is that this "god" with all his powers and promises has the same impact as no god

[swindle]

If there really was a god, he would have struck you down by now.

Well, at least we'd have some proof.

[Zarkov]

Well, at least we'd have some proof.

That's what I meant.

[swindle]

That's what I meant.

Ok. Didn't catch the implication/sarcasm sorry.

[Iblis]