Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Iblis]

The greatest achievement is selflessness.
The greatest worth is self-mastery.
The greatest quality is seeking to serve others.
The greatest precept is continual awareness.
The greatest medicine is the emptiness of everything.
The greatest action is not conforming with the worlds ways.
The greatest magic is transmuting the passions.
The greatest generosity is non-attachment.
The greatest goodness is a peaceful mind.
The greatest patience is humility.
The greatest effort is not concerned with results.
The greatest meditation is a mind that lets go.
The greatest wisdom is seeing through appearances.

Atisha (11th century Tibetan Buddhist master)

A worthy personal code

Ideological fluff. It's all psychobabble designed to speak to species-preservation instinct hardwired into us for dealing with large scale trauma.
Guess what organisation looks for these qualities:

Commitment(Selflessness)
Maturity
Sacrifice
Listening
Patience
Tranquility and "Unflappability"
Intelligence and Insight
Caution and Prudence
Truthfulness and Counsel
Ability to Observe and Analyze
Ability to Act

[Iblis]

Guess what organisation looks for these qualities:

Commitment(Selflessness)
Maturity
Sacrifice
Listening
Patience
Tranquility and "Unflappability"
Intelligence and Insight
Caution and Prudence
Truthfulness and Counsel
Ability to Observe and Analyze
Ability to Act

Hint:

[Zarkov]

Hint:

That's not a hint.

That's a smack on the back of the head.

[Iblis]

That's not a hint.

That's a smack on the back of the head.

You have to deal in rhetoric sometimes. Also, I ripped those straight from the Al-Qaeda training manual right he... online.

[WhiteRabbit]

Hint:

Goldman Sachs ?

[Zarathrustra]

You have to deal in rhetoric sometimes. Also, I ripped those straight from the Al-Qaeda training manual right he... online.

My guess was gonna be your wife's NZ Dating profile.

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Tiwaking!]

Goldman Sachs ?

Urrr. I think Goldman Sachs fail on the

Truthfulness and Counsel

Criteria

[Dr Woomanchu]

Ideological fluff. It's all psychobabble designed to speak to species-preservation instinct hardwired into us for dealing with large scale trauma.
Guess what organisation looks for these qualities:

Commitment(Selflessness)
Maturity
Sacrifice
Listening
Patience
Tranquility and "Unflappability"
Intelligence and Insight
Caution and Prudence
Truthfulness and Counsel
Ability to Observe and Analyze
Ability to Act

All personal codes are ideological fluff. It takes the individual applying them to give them meaning. I personally don't buy into about half of the ones I responded to, but there are several there that are useful perspectives. I can easily visualise someone living a rewarding and happy life by adhering to them.

A big chunk of my personal moral code is indistinguishable from much of christian and other religious teaching. That doesn't make me religious.

BTW you could list numerous schools of thought that meet the list you made.

[Iblis]

BTW you could list numerous schools of thought that meet the list you made.

Indeed. I was discussing it with some other people and I bet using synonyms it's only a step away from anything like the Girl Scout charter all the way to a revolutionary guerrilla group manifesto.

The idea behind me using the Al-Qaeda training manual to illustrate my point is that almost all religions claim exclusive insight into human virtue, using superlative abstracts to inflate an artificial mysticism to captivate people's attention. They do this to hook into people's natural instinct to improve their own social consciousness in the interest of improving the conditions for the future of their species. Yet it is essentially neurolinguistic programming; it's true mechanism being obscenely transparent, and it ends up having no more divine providence than the astrology column in your newspaper does. The people read it, few even make a sliver of effort to achieve such a high standard, yet everyone identifies with it.

[Iblis]

BTW, if anyone is thinking it, I refuse to let this thread die until it is either locked, I become worm food, or every person who has posted in this thread to argue that some kind of intervening supernatural landlord does exist shows their cards to be a bluff. I'm not just an atheist; I'm an incredibly stubborn antitheist, and despite the fact that I will no doubt eventually be referred to as hypocritically righteous or driven by an ideology that I put my "faith" in, I do not rest until the defenders of religion can produce a basis for the legitimacy of religion without separating it from its historical absurdity or its contradicting nature with itself. Every pro-religious argument I've ever seen gets reduced to the individual's need to slather existence with the compulsive human desire to project its own image and perspective into the explanation for everything. We still haven't collectively reached the intellectual marker where we can understand things are just how they are, and that our self-awareness is just an amusing byproduct of our evolutionary ability to analyse and anticipate our environment based on pattern recognition.

[mattnz]

You're self righteous

[Dr Woomanchu]

Indeed. I was discussing it with some other people and I bet using synonyms it's only a step away from anything like the Girl Scout charter all the way to a revolutionary guerrilla group manifesto.

The idea behind me using the Al-Qaeda training manual to illustrate my point is that almost all religions claim exclusive insight into human virtue, using superlative abstracts to inflate an artificial mysticism to captivate people's attention. They do this to hook into people's natural instinct to improve their own social consciousness in the interest of improving the conditions for the future of their species. Yet it is essentially neurolinguistic programming; it's true mechanism being obscenely transparent, and it ends up having no more divine providence than the astrology column in your newspaper does. The people read it, few even make a sliver of effort to achieve such a high standard, yet everyone identifies with it.

Ahh. I see your problem. I don't regard the varying belief systems etc to be exclusive or incompatible. They're all the outcome of human thought on morals and ethics and so provide a useful resource. That's part of the reason  that a study of religions is so useful, not as part of a search for some mythical "truth", but as an insight into millenia of human thinking on ethics and social codes.

BTW you use "linguistic programming" as if its somehow a trivial or banal process, yet language is at the very heart of sentience. Self programming is, IMO anyway, a worthy pursuit.

BTW I love how you describe self awareness as an amusing byproduct of evolution. I'd regard it as a glorious byproduct, one which is possibly unique in the universe.

Sentience, and the process of it arising through evolution, doesn't qualify for the use of the words like merely, especially when used in contrast to the quite unimaginative and petty gods we invent with it.

[Iblis]

You're self righteous

Probably. Prone to human fallibility myself, I think I can at least say that I'm among the most educated of the self-righteous and don't back up my claims with fairy tales passed down like family heirlooms.

Ahh. I see your problem. I don't regard the varying belief systems etc to be exclusive or incompatible. They're all the outcome of human thought on morals and ethics and so provide a useful resource. That's part of the reason  that a study of religions is so useful, not as part of a search for some mythical "truth", but as an insight into millenia of human thinking on ethics and social codes.

I'd agree, but I'd say learning from the mistakes is far more progressive than learning from empty claims. For example, slavery is condoned in the bible, even in the new testament.

BTW you use "linguistic programming" as if its somehow a trivial or banal process, yet language is at the very heart of sentience. Self programming is, IMO anyway, a worthy pursuit.

It is insidious when it is used to control a layman, which is what a lot of religions do in my opinion.

BTW I love how you describe self awareness as an amusing byproduct of evolution. I'd regard it as a glorious byproduct, one which is possibly unique in the universe.

Sentience, and the process of it arising through evolution, doesn't qualify for the use of the words like merely, especially when used in contrast to the quite unimaginative and petty gods we invent with it.

I don't disagree here. I chose the word 'amusing' because it provides as much grief through our rampant imaginations and gullibility as also it is a fantastic gift which I am grateful to have and use for my own pursuits.

[swindle]

<3 Iblis

Im really enjoying reading your posts dood.

[Bell]

BTW I love how you describe self awareness as an amusing byproduct of evolution. I'd regard it as a glorious byproduct, one which is possibly unique in the universe.

There is evidence that along with us and some apes, Dolphins and Elephants are self-aware.

[cobra]

There is evidence that along with us and some apes, Dolphins and Elephants are self-aware.

humans are apes

[swindle]

humans are apes

*facepalm

In this thread? Really? Come on man you should know better...

[Dr Woomanchu]

There is evidence that along with us and some apes, Dolphins and Elephants are self-aware.

Wouldn't it be grand if they could gain language and join us.

[Arnifix]

Wouldn't it be grand if they could gain language and join us.

Playing poker with a dolphin would be weird.

[Dr Woomanchu]

Playing poker with a dolphin would be weird.

Note to self: Buy plastic cards

[Zarathrustra]

There is evidence that along with us and some apes, Dolphins and Elephants are self-aware.

Anyone who doubts most higher level animals are self aware has either never owned a dog, or lacks the insight to observe it.

[Arnifix]

[video]qO9IPoAdct8[/video]

Dramatic readings of Christian posts on message boards.

[darkFOX]

... Is this thread glitching for anyone else?

[Dr Woomanchu]

Anyone who doubts most higher level animals are self aware has either never owned a dog, or lacks the insight to observe it.

Dog? I'm far from convinced.

[Zarkov]

Dog? I'm far from convinced.

Zara is dyslexic.

It sometimes confuses things.