Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[KiLL3r]

just had around 20 mormons congregating outside my house. Itll take more than that to convert me ya door knocking bastards

[Zarkov]

just had around 20 mormons congregating outside my house. Itll take more than that to convert me ya door knocking bastards

Maybe a crucifixion is what they have in mind.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I was crucified once, it wasn't very nice, they were prodding and poking me with also sorts of sharp things.

No wait, that was the time I was abducted by aliens, or maybe it was when I was in prison.

Either way...

[Zenith]

See the poms just made an expensive film about Charles Darwin.  Will be screen pretty much everywhere except the US.  None of the distrubutors will pick it up as it is too controvertal.  
The censorship department should need an new rating:
"e" Contains references to evolution and will offend most people.

So they wont show this http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/lucyjones/100003210/why-creation-the-new-charles-darwin-movie-needs-to-be-shown-in-america/

but this is good:
http://darwinawardsdvd.com/
Straight to video I guess

[cobra]

See the poms just made an expensive film about Charles Darwin.  Will be screen pretty much everywhere except the US.  None of the distrubutors will pick it up as it is too controvertal.  
The censorship department should need an new rating:
"e" Contains references to evolution and will offend most people.

So they wont show this http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/lucyjones/100003210/why-creation-the-new-charles-darwin-movie-needs-to-be-shown-in-america/

but this is good:
http://darwinawardsdvd.com/
Straight to video I guess

that is crazy - christianity sure does worship ignorance

[Ngati_Grim]

I think it's more correct to say the fundamentalist christianity 'worships' ignorance, i.e:

From 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 (NIV version of the Bible)

9........The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,

10. and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

11. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

12. and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

That "counterfeit" and "powerful delusion" is evolution.

Evolution is a deception, it deceives people, it's intent is to deceive. They (evolutionists) perish because they (evolutionists) refused to love the truth (from Creation to Christ) and so be saved.

God has sent (allowed) a powerful delusion, but don't blame God for your acceptance of this delusion.....that's an act of your free will. God gave you consciousness (the ability and power to reason and make a choice)...the choice you pick is your own fault.

source

America has a long history of religious fundamentalism, and Americans' distaste for evolution is not exactly a new phenomenon. Despite widespread rejection of evolution in the general population, American science has continued to advance to the benefit of all citizens. Why then should this be a pressing concern now?

Source:America's Evolution Denial

There are a number of christians who embrace evolution.

[ThaFleastyler]

There are a number of christians who embrace evolution.

+1 ... take me, for example.

[cobra]

+1 ... take me, for example.

i thought you didn't accept that humans evolved

[Arnifix]

There are a number of christians who embrace evolution.

That's bestiality!

+1 ... take me, for example.

I'll be in my bunk.

[Ngati_Grim]

That's bestiality!

You'd have heard of the bestial virgins, then? :asian:

[ThaFleastyler]

i thought you didn't accept that humans evolved

I don't know enough about it all to have a real educated discussion on it. But I know that I don't reject evolution, which disproves your point that Christians don't accept evolution. As Ngati said, fundamentalist Christians dismiss evolution, but, as I've tried and tried and tried to explain before, fundamentalist Christianity is a different beast than the kind of Christianity practiced by 90% of Christian churches in NZ.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I don't know enough about it all to have a real educated discussion on it. But I know that I don't reject evolution, which disproves your point that Christians don't accept evolution. As Ngati said, fundamentalist Christians dismiss evolution, but, as I've tried and tried and tried to explain before, fundamentalist Christianity is a different beast than the kind of Christianity practiced by 90% of Christian churches in NZ.

This is what i've found too.

I grew up going to church every Sunday, I even went to a Catholic school where they taught evolution. Church was the time of the week where we meet up with all the neighbors and talked about stuff over coffee and tea.

My experience of religion in NZ has been quite different then what you read about in America.

[cobra]

I don't know enough about it all to have a real educated discussion on it. But I know that I don't reject evolution, which disproves your point that Christians don't accept evolution. As Ngati said, fundamentalist Christians dismiss evolution, but, as I've tried and tried and tried to explain before, fundamentalist Christianity is a different beast than the kind of Christianity practiced by 90% of Christian churches in NZ.

nice dodging the question.

So you dont know enough about the evolution of humans but you are quite happy with the level of evidence you have recieved around the evolution of non-human animals? That seems like an inconsistent world view, which smacks of a religious adgenda

If you dont accept that humans evolved you are rejecting evolution, If you ignore the fact that humans are animals and came about just like any other animal then you haven't accepted evolution, you are accepting a watered down version to make it fit with the untruths that have formed into your christian world view

but if you accept humans evolved then all power to you

which disproves your point that Christians don't accept evolution.

my point was that that was another example of christians worshipping ignorance - but nice work making up my points then almost disproving them

[varkk]

This is what i've found too.

I grew up going to church every Sunday, I even went to a Catholic school where they taught evolution. Church was the time of the week where we meet up with all the neighbors and talked about stuff over coffee and tea.

My experience of religion in NZ has been quite different then what you read about in America.

I am fairly certain that Pope John Paul II accepted evolution and natural selection as being how God created man etc. So official Catholic doctrine is that evolution is correct. It is some of the non-Catholic faiths that have an issue with it.

[ThaFleastyler]

If you dont accept that humans evolved you are rejecting evolution

Isn't that like saying "if you think Lost Series 2 was shit, then you must think that all of Lost is shit"? Or, "if you think St Anger sucked, then you think Metallica sucks"?

Look, as I said, I don't know enough about evolution to make any kind of statement on it. In the case of microevolution, I feel like what I have seen, read and understand shows that it is a foregone conclusion. In the case of macroevolution, the evidence is pretty solid as well. But I'm not a biologist or anything, so I'm making my statement from only a laymans understanding of the issue.

Note: You seem to think that I have an opinion on evolution concerning animals, and then a separate opinion on evolution concerning humans. First off, I don't, and secondly, how dumb do you think I am? I understand perfectly that theories of evolution apply to all species, so if I comment on it or give my own opinion, its my opinion for all species

I also want to take issue with this:

So you dont know enough about the evolution of humans but you are quite happy with the level of evidence you have recieved around the evolution of non-human animals? That seems like an inconsistent world view, which smacks of a religious adgenda

This is pretty petty mate - as I've said and as I believe I've shown repeatedly in this thread, I have no religious agenda. I just call things as I see them. In fact, if you look back through my posts here, I'm probably as skeptical of the church as most people here. I don't believe everybody should believe the same as me - like I say, I just look at things and make my own decision. I'm free to believe what I want, and everyone else is free to do the same.

[cobra]

Isn't that like saying "if you think Lost Series 2 was shit, then you must think that all of Lost is shit"? Or, "if you think St Anger sucked, then you think Metallica sucks"?

no, no its not

Look, as I said, I don't know enough about evolution to make any kind of statement on it. In the case of microevolution, I feel like what I have seen, read and understand shows that it is a foregone conclusion. In the case of macroevolution, the evidence is pretty solid as well. But I'm not a biologist or anything, so I'm making my statement from only a laymans understanding of the issue.

Note: You seem to think that I have an opinion on evolution concerning animals, and then a separate opinion on evolution concerning humans. First off, I don't, and secondly, how dumb do you think I am? I understand perfectly that theories of evolution apply to all species, so if I comment on it or give my own opinion, its my opinion for all species

I also want to take issue with this:

This is pretty petty mate - as I've said and as I believe I've shown repeatedly in this thread, I have no religious agenda. I just call things as I see them. In fact, if you look back through my posts here, I'm probably as skeptical of the church as most people here. I don't believe everybody should believe the same as me - like I say, I just look at things and make my own decision. I'm free to believe what I want, and everyone else is free to do the same.

you said a while back that you didn't believe humans evolved, if you have changed your mind and accept that humans evolved from apes then that's positive

[KiLL3r]

Recently i have being reading about Dantes Inferno and specially http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malebolge
the eighth circle of hell, and one thing i cant understand that maybe believers can explain to me is why does the devil punish people who did things againstt he churches wishes? Surely they would be encouraging this sort of behaviour.

For example. "Bolgia Four: Astrologists, seers, sorcerers and others who attempted to pervert God’s laws to divine the future are punished here. Their heads have been twisted around to face backwards, and thus they are forced to walk backwards around the circumference of their circle for all of time."

Bolgia Nine: Sinners who, in life, promoted scandals, schism, and discord are punished here; particularly those who caused schism within the church or within politics. They are forced to walk around the circumference of the circle bearing horrible, disfiguring wounds inflicted on them by a great demon with a sword. The nature of the wound mirrors the sins of the particular soul; while some only have gashes, or fingers and toes cut off, others are decapitated, cut in half (as schismatics), or are completely disemboweled. In the Inferno, Muslim prophet Muhammad is tortured in this ditch.

So any believers care to explain this too me?

[Scunner]

inb4cobrasaysreligiouspropagandaoragenda

My uneducated opinion would be because the Devil is not supposed to be nice at all. So while he might encourage you into acts agaisnt the curches wishes while you are on earth, he'll then be the evil dick that he is and enjoy punishing you for it when you get to hell.

[nick247]

lets be honest we are all fucked....

dinosaurs were on this earth for 65million years, humans a few thousand and probably wont last much longer than a thousand more.

I do believe god is a dinosaur god. So we going to be running around in the afterlife chased by dinosaurs...65million years worth of dinosaurs chasing us around

better start training

[Ngati_Grim]

lets be honest we are all fucked....

dinosaurs were on this earth for 65million years, humans a few thousand and probably wont last much longer than a thousand more.

Q.  How long were dinosaurs around?

A.  They evolved about 228 million years ago (during the Triassic Period, toward the beginning of the Mesozoic Era) and became extinct some 65 million years ago at the end of the Cretaceous Period.  Eoraptor is the earliest known dinosaur.  But because Eoraptor’s skeleton shows some genetically advanced skeletal features, older dinosaur fossils may yet be found.

http://www.desertusa.com/mag06/jul/dino.html

When did dinosaurs live?

It is very clear that there are no more dinosaurs around today. You probably also know that they lived a very long time ago. (Back when your teacher was young, lol) How long exactly though? Not hundreds of years ago, not thousands, and definitely not billions or trillions. Actually, the last dinosaur died out approximately 65 million years ago.

The dinosaurs lived during the Mesozoic Era which contained the geological periods Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous, in that order, with the Triassic coming first. The first primitive dinosaurs evolved onto this planet 248 million years ago.

http://www.paleontology.esmartstudent.com/dinosaurs.html#when

evolution of Humans

So dinosaurs 'died out' 65 Mya at what is now known as the KT boundary. There may have been some outliers for a few thousand years after, but this is the generally accepted time of their demise.

CF humans which have been around (in the 'Modern' Homo sapienssense) at least 150 thousand years.

Sorry if I seem pedantic. It's because I am

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

dinosaurs were on this earth for 65million years, humans a few thousand and probably wont last much longer than a thousand more.

What makes you say that? Why do so many people believe the worlds going to end so soon.

Humans are far more adaptable then dinosaurs were.

[KiLL3r]

What makes you say that? Why do so many people believe the worlds going to end so soon.

Humans are far more adaptable then dinosaurs were.

only way i can see humans surviving longer than the dinosaurs is intergalactic travel. This world simply cannot sustain us for that long.

[Bell]

Why do so many people believe the worlds going to end so soon.

Because of jerks

[swindle]

probably wont last much longer than a thousand more.

At best.

As a species, were so fucked.

[liquidpain]

Why do so many people believe the worlds going to end so soon.

I'm going to be laughing at you when the world ends on 12/21/2012 and you are not prepared.

As for killers point, i disagree. The world has the capability to sustain up to 10-12 billion people. The bureaucrats are bogging it down.