Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Spoonguard]

how did the star explode?

Quite violently I imagine.

If God is the answer to a question, well, now you have two questions.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

how did the star explode?

Quite violently I imagine.

If God is the answer to a question, well, now you have two questions.

what are the two questions gangsta?

man its time for some pew pew on bc2

[Ngati_Grim]

faith has nothign to do with in that respect bro. It jsut happens that the Nice people you know just dont believe in God

a lot of my best friends dont believe in God and i'd do anythign for them, and they would do anythign for me. Its down to their character mangs~ not about who they worship

...and yet it matters to 'god'....hmmmm

[Blob_ZPS]

What If you pick the wrong god, I mean what if you get to the pearly gates and St. peter is sitting there, looks at you:
"Sorry bro, youre not on the list"
"What list?" You reply
"This *is* valhalla you know, its like, the most exclusive nightclub this side of the abyss. Unless youre here with Odin or Thor I can't let you in im afraid, you can go and chill with Loki in the alleyway though."

[Kayne]

Yeah, Who's to say that "God" is the true idol, What about the more sinister religions.

No one said god had to be morally correct.

[toofast]

Yeah, Who's to say that "God" is the true idol, What about the more sinister religions.

No one said god had to be morally correct.

God can be whatever you want him/her/it to be. Thats why the idea is so popular.

[Kayne]

Yeah, Who's to say that "God" is the true idol, What about the more sinister religions.

No one said god had to be morally correct.

God can be whatever you want him/her/it to be. Thats why the idea is so popular.

That is a silly idea.

[Scunner]

faith has nothign to do with in that respect bro. It jsut happens that the Nice people you know just dont believe in God

a lot of my best friends dont believe in God and i'd do anythign for them, and they would do anythign for me. Its down to their character mangs~ not about who they worship

...and yet it matters to 'god'....hmmmm

Actually, as I understand it, it doesn't. At least, as long as you read the New Testament.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

faith has nothign to do with in that respect bro. It jsut happens that the Nice people you know just dont believe in God

a lot of my best friends dont believe in God and i'd do anythign for them, and they would do anythign for me. Its down to their character mangs~ not about who they worship

...and yet it matters to 'god'....hmmmm

what matters to "God" the fact that you key someones nice car just because you want it and dont? or the fact that you respect yourself enough not to key that guys car and just keep on walking.

how about if i were to throw rubbish out of my car on the road while im at the lights. would that piss you off? wouldnt you come up to me and say listen dickhead! DONT LITTER!

now... see everyoen has morales.  whether or not you are a good person and arse considerate has nothign to do with your faith.

if larry was a complete arse and he was a christian what would say then?
then you have a billy over there who is an even bigger arse who doesnt believe in God then whats the difference between the two?

nothing! they are both humans and they are both arseholes! THEIR FAITH HAS NOTHIGN TO DO WITH IT? agreed?

it also matters to your parents....hmmmmmmmm


and scunner you've obviously haven't read the new testament hahaha

[Blob_ZPS]

Sorry rice what were you trying to say? People should do good because its the right thing to do rather than out of fear of the big man in the sky?
Agree 100% if so.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

yes! EXACTLY!  Just because i have faith and you don't theres nothign to stop you from doing good. What is the difference between you and i? nothing... just faith. if you see some old lady with a flat tyre, you'd stop and help right? You dont need a faith badge to do so.

why else do we have a conscience? yer i better not steal these pies from that ladies window because its wrong. she'd have made it for her own family and crikey... i wouldnt like it if soemone did it to me.

for instance... my friends. i've shared what i believe in and we can talk about it. but i don't force it on them. why? because i feel its wrong. i respect peoples space. Thats the right thing to do.

And the end of days i'll have to answer for all the bad that i have done. Difference is will i have Jesus standing up for me saying, "its ok! my blood is sufficient." or will i come to God, and not allowed in and i'll be all like, but i preached in your name! i cast out demons and healed the sick in your name! if my relationship with him was not good he would say to me, away from me i never knew you.

the jewish teachers asked Jesus, what is the greatest commandment? Jesus replied, love your neighbor as you do yourself. and love god with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul."

so in reference to scunners comment it matters even more if you are a christian. Infact you are held to a higher standard than everyone else. Luke 12:48 From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

[Spoonguard]

So we are the same except some sky wizard is going to save you from the consequences of your actions because of some superstition.

Tell me why I should think your Jesus Christ superstition doesn't compel you to act unethically, especially against things you consider "demonic".

[Who_ate_my_rice]

So we are the same except some sky wizard is going to save you from the consequences of your actions because of some superstition.

Tell me why I should think your Jesus Christ superstition doesn't compel you to act unethically, especially against things you consider "demonic".

im not telling you to think anything.  What you want to think is your choice. I can only share what i believe in. If you don't believe in what i do, and find it to be superstition then you have every right to think so. That's whats awesome about living in a country like New Zealand and having free will

im having a little difficulty understanding what you are trying to ask. Are you asking, why doesnt Jesus cause me to act badly? like stealing? Why would his teachings cause me to do this? and if you are asking, why does the fact that having Jesus in my life cause me to be an even better person than i once was? what are you asking?

And to your first comment, yes i do believe he will save me from hell. He took my place on the cross. He died for all sins past, present and future. that includes yours too. just depends on whether or not you'll accept him or not.

if you dont? well thats your choice. But im not forcing this belief on you. i have to repeat this over and over again, im just sharing what i believe, and what i believe is the true path.

im not better than any of you for believing this. like i said there is no difference between you and i, other than the fact that i believe Jesus died on the cross for me, and you think this is superstition.

Righteousness Through Faith Romans chapter 3
 21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
 27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Its funny how this thread seems to go in circles  I also find it hilarious that some of you get annoyed at what i post XD Remember im not trying to tell you what to think. thats your choice and yours alone.  think of it as me passing you a tract on the street. Its up to you if you take it and read it. you can take it and throw it away if you want. or.. you can politely say, "no thank you."

just add this last part i found.

Romans Chapter 5
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

 9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

[Spoonguard]

You can't seem to stop proselytizing for any moment, I think that maybe at the root of your issue.

How far are you willing to take Pascal's Wager? You seem to be confidant that faith is necessary for salvation , but how do you know it is sufficient? Do you need to take your foreskin off and flagellate for your sins as well? Should you never touch pork, or Alcohol? How many homosexuals can one tolerate before it becomes necessary to stone them for your spiritual wellbeing? How much must you participate in forcing misery upon animals and your fellow human beings (assuming such a thing exists outside of the soul) to secure salvation?

[Who_ate_my_rice]

lol spoonguard... are you trying to act like you're of higher intelligence just because you like to use big words that you wouldn't use in normal speech?

and have you stepped back and thought for a moment you're now proselytizing? i think that might be the root of your problem.

How do i know that faith in Jesus christ is necessary to salvation? Because the word of God says so. As i've said in earlier posts money, works, and preaching at my church wont get me into heaven. Its faith in Jesus Christ. My relationship with him will determine my salvation.

Also in regards, to circumcision and not eating certain certain foods does not apply to my faith so i wont be able to answer those questions as i don't know enough about them.

And im dissapointed at your comment about needing to stone homosexuals. Thats very very silly. Infact i nearly facepalmed. If you had even bothered to look at Christianity you'd see that God hates sin, not people.  have a look at the quote above in my last post

Where do you get the idea that i force misery upon animals? what are you just pullign things out of the air now? If it was a legitimate question, im sorry it doesn't apply to what i believe in so i am unable to answer those questions.

time to pew pew on bc2!

[Blob_ZPS]

You can't seem to stop proselytizing for any moment, I think that maybe at the root of your issue.

How far are you willing to take Pascal's Wager? You seem to be confidant that faith is necessary for salvation , but how do you know it is sufficient? Do you need to take your foreskin off and flagellate for your sins as well? Should you never touch pork, or Alcohol? How many homosexuals can one tolerate before it becomes necessary to stone them for your spiritual wellbeing? How much must you participate in forcing misery upon animals and your fellow human beings (assuming such a thing exists outside of the soul) to secure salvation?

Don't get me wrong, I'm an atheist-agnostic through and through but you have to realise that most modern interpretations of the bible have veered away from the bigotry found in the old testament (In taking out Leviticus from the new testament they solved a LOT of problems.) and most christians are not the wife beating, homophobic, kiddy-fiddling zealots that many atheists would have you believe. That being said there are still a lot of bad eggs( bigots, creationist-fundamentalists and other ignorant minorities) and theres no excuses for them, they deserve to burn in the fires of their self-constructed hell for all eternity.

[Spoonguard]

I don't like to use big words, I just use them. They are just words. I don't intend to appeal to intelligence by using words I know and especially to words I should know better. Would you have me quack like a duck, describe you as a "bible bashing cunt" instead of a proselytiser and your salvation as "sucking off god"? Probably, since that would make it easy for you to just dismiss me as a vulgar bigot.

What words do you know? I bet you don't know a word of Koine Greek or Hebrew.

And what of this word of god? Does god even have words? Why would they be English? I suspect your word of god is nothing more than poorly translated excuses for bigotry and hypocrisy from a cruel history. Do you honestly expect me to believe that your perpetuation of this doesn't make you dangerous? You already seem to have Jebus Christ Our Shortcut for salvation, how many more are you willing to take?

[Spoonguard]

...self-constructed hell for all eternity.

Could salvation be self-constructed as well?

Christians seem to be very quiet about god creating evil.....

[Who_ate_my_rice]

nice spoonguard nice! You're a very interesting guy  Didn't realise this was a thread where people try to prove they know more than the other! Good job!

Have i made you angry?

I better go learn 345968 languages so my opinion matters! Nice!  Or learn hebrew just to know God! BRILLIANT!

You can't seem to stop proselytizing for any moment, I think that maybe at the root of your issue.

 You know whats funny is that Nagti, scunner, blob, seem to do quite well is that they are open to discussion.  If i lay soemthign out on the table, they reply back with things like, well if that was true why this? and what about if this was that. then i can say, well i see it as like this. Its an open discussion.


take a step back man and calm down  play this game if it will help. Anaraith sent it to me! its cool! http://www.members.shaw.ca/gf3/circle-the-cat.html


as for salvation being self constructed, again its writen in the bible. if you had bothered to even have a skim through it you can find it.

as for God creating evil agian~~~ you are misinformed. Not saying you're stupid here! WOW look at that! Im just saying you lack knowledge in this area.
Evil is the absence of good. Agreed? Darkness is the absence of light. agreed?

ok now we're in agreement with this. We have people/creatures he created. They all have free will. The freedom to choose what ever they like. I want pancakes on tuesday. I want bacon everyday. YAY! I can do this because i have free will!

if i wanted to go throw a bucket of water at my brother i can do this as well! Wouldn't be nice(although funny) but i could if i wanted too.

the things that God has created, if they chose not to do good. that is evil. they reject good and do evil.

It is not soemthign that God has created.  But God does allow evil to exist. If he doesn't allow evil to exist then there would be no freedom to choose. as i posted earlier from that song,

"Some people say that God ain't real 'cause they don't see how a good God can exsist with all this evil in the world. If God is real then He should stop all this evil, 'cause He's all-powerful right? What is evil though man? It's anything that's against God. It's anything morally bad or wrong. It's murder, rape, stealing, lying, cheating. But if we want God to stop evil, do we want Him to stop it all or just a little bit of it? If He stops us from doing evil things, what about lying, or what about our evil thoughts? I mean, where do you stop, the murder level, the lying level, or the thinking level? If we want Him to stop evil, we gotta be consistent, we can't just pick and choose. That means you and I would be eliminated right? Because we think evil stuff. If that's true, we should be eliminated! But thanks be to God that Jesus stepped in to save us from our sin! Christ died for all evilness! "

[oefox]

The absence of good doesn't mean evil, that's a very poor argument, you're omitting neutral my favourite choice

[Who_ate_my_rice]

Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

so you cant see some lady getting beaten and be nuetral about it. ignoring that lady getting beaten is evil.

[Spoonguard]

Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Since the 1940s various popular writers have attributed to Burke the statement, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Burke never made that famous statement. However, he did say something vaguely similar in 1770: "when bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle"

Do you have a habit of quoting popular misattributions

[Spoonguard]

The Fabrick of Superstition has in this our Age and Nation received much ruder Shocks than it had ever felt before; and through the Chinks and Breaches of our Prison, we see such Glimmerings of Light, and feel such refreshing Airs of Liberty, as daily raise our Ardor for more. The Miseries derived to Mankind from Superstition, under the Name of Religion, and of ecclesiastical Tyranny under the Name of Church Government, have been clearly and usefully exposed.

[oefox]

Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

so you cant see some lady getting beaten and be nuetral about it. ignoring that lady getting beaten is evil.

Now that is such a BS twisted argument. Bystanders not stepping in to a physical confrontation doesn't make them evil, totally situational but smart thing to do is not put yourself in harms way. Based on your argument, I didn't steal the old lady's handbag therefore that'd make me a good person.

[cobra]

Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

so you cant see some lady getting beaten and be nuetral about it. ignoring that lady getting beaten is evil.

um.... there is someone beating a lady - can you explain how the person beating the lady is due to the absence of good - because that seems like an evil act to me.

also your quote is for evil to triumph, not evil to exist.