Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Ngati_Grim]

We've all been born into sin because of the fall of man as written about in Genesis. The story of Adam and Eve you've all heard. if you want ot have a quick read this is the link http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3&version=NIV  

So god made us in his image and god being omnipotent and omniscient would have known that this was going to happen?

A) god must have a bad back and poor design skills, and therefore can't be omnipotent or else god has a sick sense of humour.

B) if god didn't know what was going to happen then god isn't omniscient, or knew and just wanted to be a prick by punishing people for something god knew would happen....BRING OUT THE FREE WILL BOMB, GO ON.

The gap is there because God cant be part of sin at all.

Even though god is a jealous god? [paraphrase] you shall not worship any other god but me[/paraphrase].

Does that not also mean that there are other gods?

'Faith healers' are snake oil merchants. They are despicable people preying on others insecurities and stupidity.

I'm definitely not going to heaven, hell, or pergatory. I can't reject jesus when there is no proof he existed except some writings after the supposed 'fact'. That would be a double negative.

I'm glad you enjoy your Sumerian rip-off religion, transposed through Pharonic magic cults and supplanted by Roman desires to rule the World.

It doesn't work for me, at all.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

 I can't reject jesus when there is no proof he existed except some writings after the supposed 'fact'. That would be a double negative.

Isn't that the case with most historical figures?

They can only write about them after they've been born, not before.


I see little reason to doubt the existence of Jesus, anymore then most other historical person. Most classical historians agree that he likely did exist.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

I san save puppies and kittens everyday of my life... but thats not going to get me into heaven :/ Using the bridge will!

The first inklings I had that religion was garbage, was when confronting the priest who played with the kiddies with the concept that someone like Brian Tamaki would go to heaven, whereas atheist kitten savers would go to hell. Even at age 10 it was obvious it was a load of completely self serving dribble served up by religious masters, and swallowed by a gullible flock.

Who's to say that brian tamaki is going to heaven? Who's to say the Priest who destroyed those peoples lives are going to heaven? who's to say that kitten savers are going to hell?   OH im a muslim, oh im a atheist, oh im a christian, oh im a mormon oh i look after sick people, oh i save old ladies from burning buildings.

Saying you're a Christian doesn't make you a christian. Those priests who say they are christian, doesnt make them christian.  Just like saying IM A CHEESEBURGER doesnt make you a cheeseburger.

If you've heard about Jesus, and then reject him. What im saying is if you do that you can't get into the kingdom of God.  If i tomorow deny Jesus and just go about living for myself, im choosing the world over God.

When our time on earth ends, we'll stand before God. He will judge us using our own thoughts and secrets. I mean....LOL theres no defense for that hahahahaha. So the way to get out of getting pwned is to get with the creator and have Jesus deliver you from this.

About children going to hell just because they don't believe. That is RUBBISH. Again i say God will judge them by their own thoughts. God knows if they knew what they were doing. So if 10 year old billy denies him. God will know whether or not he knew what he was doing.  I didn't see any children in hell written about int he bible. Nor did i see it in this testimony of hell http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/7_Jovenes/English_7_Jovenes_Hell.htm

 I can't reject jesus when there is no proof he existed except some writings after the supposed 'fact'. That would be a double negative.

Isn't that the case with most historical figures?

They can only write about them after they've been born, not before.


I see little reason to doubt the existence of Jesus, anymore then most other historical person. Most classical historians agree that he likely did exist.

:3 he was prophesised about in the bible. In the old testament.

And spacemonkey is right on his points. There are also letters that people have written in regards to Jesus and the jews and his diciples written to government etc. Don't ask me which ones, i saw it in a doco ages back.

also pontius pilate existed and he was the one who handed Jesus over to the jews.  Would be cool to learn more about this.

I'll answer Ngati on his points in a second. i just got to deal to these customers and i'll answer it

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

If you've heard about Jesus, and then reject him. What im saying is if you do that you can't get into the kingdom of God.  If i tomorow deny Jesus and just go about living for myself, im choosing the world over God.

When our time on earth ends, we'll stand before God. He will judge us using our own thoughts and secrets. I mean....LOL theres no defense for that hahahahaha. So the way to get out of getting pwned is to get with the creator and have Jesus deliver you from this.

So for example, for the thousand years after Jesus, there were many civilization around the world who had no contact with Western civilizations, and therefore could not have heard about Jesus, and therefore could not reject him as they didn't even know he existed.

When they die, God would judge them by their thoughts, and whether they lived good lives or not?

Cause if that's the case then I think I understand what you're saying.

[Dr Woomanchu]

I see little reason to doubt the existence of Jesus, anymore then most other historical person. Most classical historians agree that he likely did exist.

Ahh no. Not only is there pretty well no independent evidence for his existence, even as a non miraculous historical figure, his biography shares significant detail with a number of earlier myths.

There is no contemporary mention of Jesus in roman histories, especially no mention of Pontius Pilate having anything to do with such a figure. Almost all evidence for Jesus comes from the 4 gospels, the earliest of which wasn't even written until 40 years after his death.

The guy was a conglomeration of a bunch of well used religious tropes from the surrounding regions. If the cultists who promoted the gospels hadn't converted Constantine a few hundred years later, Christianity would have gone the way of the innumerable other religions humans have invented.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

So for example, for the thousand years after Jesus, there were many civilization around the world who had no contact with Western civilizations, and therefore could not have heard about Jesus, and therefore could not reject him as they didn't even know he existed.

When they die, God would judge them by their thoughts, and whether they lived good lives or not?

Cause if that's the case then I think I understand what you're saying.

You're thinking Spacemonkey i like it!!! This is correct. God gave us all a conscience. They will know its wrong to murder, cheat, lie, steal, rape etc.

Romans 2:12
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

link if you want to read the passage before it http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+2&version=NIV

We've all been born into sin because of the fall of man as written about in Genesis. The story of Adam and Eve you've all heard. if you want ot have a quick read this is the link http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3&version=NIV  

 
So god made us in his image and god being omnipotent and omniscient would have known that this was going to happen?
 
A) god must have a bad back and poor design skills, and therefore can't be omnipotent or else god has a sick sense of humour.
 
B) if god didn't know what was going to happen then god isn't omniscient, or knew and just wanted to be a prick by punishing people for something god knew would happen....BRING OUT THE FREE WILL BOMB, GO ON.

 
KABOOM! Adam and eve had the freedom of choice. Everyone has the capacity to do evil. Everyone has the capacity to do good. God told them, dont eat from the tree. He gave them the choice to NOT eat it. But they still chose to.
 
If he could control them they would be nothign more than puppets.

The short answer to these points is that because God is omniscient He knew that Adam would sin, but such fore-knowing should not be translated as being causative. One illustration to explain this is as follows (remembering that all illustrations about God must fall short—a symptom of the finite trying to explain the infinite).

Imagine a man in a car driving along a narrow country road. He passes a cow and is approaching a bend. On the other side of the bend is a large semi-trailer travelling at high speed on the wrong side of the road. A crash is inevitable. To the driver, approaching the bend, the cow is now in the past, he is experiencing the present, and his hitting the semi-trailer is in the future. Now imagine a pilot in a helicopter above the scene. The pilot can see the cow, the car, and the semi-trailer all at once, so in a sense, what is past, present and future to the driver is all one to the pilot. Furthermore the pilot can see that a crash is inevitable, even though the driver does not know it is going to happen. Does the pilot cause the crash just because he knows it is going to happen? Assuredly not!

Our problem in understanding these matters of God’s eternal perspective is encapsulated in Ecclessiastes 3:11:

‘He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot fathom what God has done from the beginning to the end.’
 

The gap is there because God cant be part of sin at all.

 
Even though god is a jealous god? [paraphrase] you shall not worship any other god but me[/paraphrase].
 
Does that not also mean that there are other gods?

 
Negative They were worshiping, the sun, the stars, bhal, molech, asherah etc back then. They thought these things were Gods but they werent. No disrespect to people of other faiths but islam, hinduism, etc is against our creator.  

since before we even got the ten commandments people we worshiping other "gods"  An example..... Your son starts calling the teddy bear he found his father, and tells everyone so.  Wouldn't you get jealous? Wouldnt you say, "no son! i am your father!"  You can tell him he's wrong, but you can't actually control him.

"They lifestyle reflects that they worship theyself instead of him
They don't acknowledge the Christ
If they did, they wouldn't worship themselves by the way that they live "
 

'Faith healers' are snake oil merchants. They are despicable people preying on others insecurities and stupidity.

didn't realise God was a snake oil merchant! XD And if you're refering to peoplelike benny hinn, who use the power of God and give the glory to God, then maybe its time you satisfy your curiousity and visit one of those meetings
 

I'm definitely not going to heaven, hell, or pergatory.

Are you sure? How do you know? Like... How do you really know? Whats going to happen? Light? Fire? or nothing? What happens after death?

I can't reject jesus

Yes you can

I'm glad you enjoy your Sumerian rip-off religion, transposed through Pharonic magic cults and supplanted by

i cant wait for summer! What is chrstianity ripping off? God is the first, the last, the beginning and the end! How can you confuse that with anythign else

Roman desires to rule the World.
 
It doesn't work for me, at all.

roman~~~~~~ desires~~~~~~~~ to RULLLEE THE WOORLLDD

Team Rocket, blast off at the speed of light

Emphasis added

I did a victory pose today to a customer after i fixed his speakers haahha he countered with a handsome pose ahahhahaha crazy guy

Im not tryign to battle anyone here. Im not trying to have a battle of minds. I dont want to have discussions to prove who knows more than than the other.
GetSome crew who read this reply. I love you guys. I love this community. You guys are awesome.  And God loves you too. The reason i type all this stuff here is because i care about all of you. Whether we play games together or just know each other through here i just want to let you know Gods love for you.

You can scoff if you like, but thats how i truely feel. God so badly wants you to know him. He wants to have fellowship with you.  You sit back and relax with the mates, Kick back and talk about old times, or stuff thats happenign with family and friends. God wants that with us all.  "In the same way, we try to create the best possible environment for our children, and enjoy just spending time pleasantly with those we love. Just as we take delight in making our children happy with presents and things, so too God took delight in providing a wonderful garden home for Adam and Eve." He wants to be walking and talkign with him! Before the fall of man you can see he's doing that with his creations!  Creating people was part of God’s plan to expand this circle of fellowship XD

Christianity would have gone the way of the innumerable other religions humans have invented.

I disagree mangs. The parable of the mustard seed applies here. And also~ God wants you to know him~! So his word would have persisted :3 Just like his love does
heres a link you might like http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html


If you can be bothered looking into these questions deeper i found this link which saves me from typing more stuff out.
http://creation.com/did-god-know-adam-would-sin  Ngati you might like that link actually, i kinda remember you asking some of these questions.

[cobra]

Imagine a man in a car driving along a narrow country road. He passes a cow and is approaching a bend. On the other side of the bend is a large semi-trailer travelling at high speed on the wrong side of the road. A crash is inevitable. To the driver, approaching the bend, the cow is now in the past, he is experiencing the present, and his hitting the semi-trailer is in the future. Now imagine a pilot in a helicopter above the scene. The pilot can see the cow, the car, and the semi-trailer all at once, so in a sense, what is past, present and future to the driver is all one to the pilot. Furthermore the pilot can see that a crash is inevitable, even though the driver does not know it is going to happen. Does the pilot cause the crash just because he knows it is going to happen? Assuredly not!

and now imagine that this pilot created everything and is all knowing, just because the pilot created a universe in which this crash would happen and could have stopped the crash or even created a universe where the crash would never happen is the pilot to blame, i think not.

[Spoonguard]

clearly you have the truth as your posts are the longest

[Who_ate_my_rice]

LOL spoonguard are you ok man? Whats wrong?

and now imagine that this pilot created everything and is all knowing, just because the pilot created a universe in which this crash would happen and could have stopped the crash or even created a universe where the crash would never happen is the pilot to blame, i think not.

Ah~ but Cobra Who's to say he's not going to stop the crash or save the drivers if the crash still happens? Have you also forgot that the drivers of teh cars also have control over their vehicles?

this guy was sharing on tv the other day where he was going to commit suicide. and as he jumped out of the building... he was in mid air... he gets pulled back into the building.  There was this lady in Bali i think was during this fire after a bomb blast if i can remmeber correctly. The floor she was in was burning... so she thought she'd risk it and just jump out. She couldnt see how far it was down because of the thick smoke. anyways she jumps, and some guy down there catches her! Anyways as soon as her feet is on the ground the guy dissapears...! Crazy shizzle

SLEEP TIME.  oh man.... 26th of this month...... we lose an hour of sleep

[Spoonguard]

more word == bettar than. What was the question again?

[Who_ate_my_rice]

you ok man? Something wrong?

[Spoonguard]

I mean, we never hear the accounts of people who god chooses not to deny suicide from. Miracles!

[Spoonguard]

Earth is cesspit of suffering and salvation from suicide is gods most cruel punishment. I know this because I try to read your posts, attempt suicide, black out and wake up in a pool of my own blood and vomit

[Spoonguard]

and then I try to read them again

[Who_ate_my_rice]

spooooonn guarrrdd~~~ there must be somethign wrong~~ are you ok there champ~ion~~??  you must be a very depressing guy(assuming, you might be a cheery fellow). you like to get all personal. soemthing you want to talk about?

as for

I mean, we never hear the accounts of people who god chooses not to deny suicide from. Miracles!

we never hear their accounts... because they are dead?  hurr durr

[Spoonguard]

No really, I hate reading what you write here. It's like you wrote the bible or something.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

spoonguard my darling sweet heart

hahah you don't have to read my posts. No one is forcing you to. Why are you torturing yourself?

[Who_ate_my_rice]

here this might cheer you up

[Spoonguard]

Do you not know what a spoonguard is

[Who_ate_my_rice]

do you not know what God is    OH SNAP!

[Spoonguard]

does the faeces know what the body is

[Who_ate_my_rice]

does the spoonguard need to lighten up

[Spoonguard]

i can't help it a jesus touches me every night

[Who_ate_my_rice]

thats not god spoonguard. better call the police. that jesus might as well be a south american president

no wonder you are so uptight! not good man. better get help quick

[Spoonguard]

god /= jesus hmm