Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[mattnz]

[toofast]

I'm reading 'The Greatest Show on Earth' by Richard Dawkins.

Its a good book. Good read. Good, solid, reliable information.

lol what.

He quotes a lot of shit. But its just a lot of his opinion. Just like in the god delusion, which is a pretty disappointing read, because he focuses way too much on Christianity, which is like going after the fat kid in dodgeball. No challenge at all.

[DeeUnit]

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Yeap. I will be happy to chill with the man above if he accepts me, but when the time comes, it better be fucking justified. I'm not going cause some moron drunk too much and decided to drive, or someone decided to blow themselves up for 72 virgins or the like.

That's my reasoning.

[Kayne]

Deeunit, that athiest image is silly, Just because some athiest's (including me) say that science did it, not "god", doesn't mean some athiest's (including me) saying its nothing.

Answer me this, GetSome

What I don't understand is, how can Religeous people say "god HAD to have created earth, what else could of?", and also say "how did the big bang happen, they (atoms.. particles.. what ever caused the big bang) can't of just BEEN there". YET, say that God was ALWAYS there, and NOTHING made god.

It might not be the high ass scientific shit you guys are all talking about, but I want some answers.

[toofast]

Because god doesn't conform to the concept of time, but the earth does.

[Kayne]

Because god doesn't conform to the concept of time, but the earth does.

--Does not understand how you can't "Conform" to time--

I see time as being inescapeable. Time is just a measurement of the age of the something. Time wasn't created, but just was / is. It sounds like god was around before anything existed (including god).

No clue if i'm talking in such a fucked up way that people can't understand me or...
Don't troll me if i'm wrong, I just want answers

[Blob_ZPS]

You make sense good.
The universe has been around for as long as time itself.
If you argue its impossibile to have existed for ever, then you say god created it which means that god must have existed forever or he mustve been created by a super god. Either you come to a point where god existed forever and you admit that infinite time is possible, or you keep having more and more powerful gods creating each other which is just stupid.

[winter]

How is god not bound by time, yet created earth and what not in seven days?

I just can't accept that he (god) has been around 'forever' there must've been a point in 'time' when he did not exist and he was created/somehow created himself (see big bang theory )

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

How is god not bound by time, yet created earth and what not in seven days?

I just can't accept that he (god) has been around 'forever' there must've been a point in 'time' when he did not exist and he was created/somehow created himself (see big bang theory )

Well, time was created with the universe.

So if something created the universe, they also created time. Thus are not bound by the rules of time.

The word like 'forever' indicates time, the concept of time is hard wired into our brains, so it's hard to comprehend the non-existence of it. But "before" the universe existed, time did not exist, so there's no concept of something being around forever.

[Kayne]

How is god not bound by time, yet created earth and what not in seven days?

I just can't accept that he (god) has been around 'forever' there must've been a point in 'time' when he did not exist and he was created/somehow created himself (see big bang theory )

Well, time was created with the universe.

So if something created the universe, they also created time. Thus are not bound by the rules of time.

The word like 'forever' indicates time, the concept of time is hard wired into our brains, so it's hard to comprehend the non-existence of it. But "before" the universe existed, time did not exist, so there's no concept of something being around forever.

A Place without time, would be nothing? You are right, that it has been "hard wired" to our brains, But i'm pretty sure thats because its just... I can't think of a better term to describe it than "common physics".
Nothing can grow old, in a place without time, Infact, Can anything even move, in a place without time?

Please don't suddenly turn around now and say "dats heaven!"

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I would have to say that anything that exists outside space and time would be incomprehensible to humans.

I don't mind religious people saying there exists some kind of God or afterlife beyond our universe, since there's no way for us to tell, there could be.

What I don't like is people trying to describe it, where by it's nature is impossible to describe. And then basing how they live their life and actions on those descriptions, at least when those actions are negative and promoting intolerance.

It's all about tolerance I say, let people believe what they wish, as long as they don't negatively impact on the lives of others by their actions or inactions.

[Kayne]

...Christians tried to brain-wash me when I was little lol.

Every Wednesday, At my primary school, A guy would come in to our room and tell us about "The wonders of god + Jebus". He would then perform simple magic tricks, and tell us God was the cause of the trick to work.

I.E : He had 2 "bean" shaped cards (this one was just a optical illusion). He told us (aswell as prayed to god for his help at that point in time) that god was changing the size of the cards, and was doing it to show us his love.
(the trick) http://www.csiro.au/helix/sciencemail/activities/curvedcards.html

It worked too, untill I was 10, I believed that god existed, I didn't go to church but shit, Did I pray for him, on what I thought was, My death bed (at times).

I also hated the songs... God, I hate the songs...
Song is in an old tune... I think they used the same type of styled songs in "James and the giant peach"

Spoiler :

Skid-da-ma-rinky-dinky-dink
Skid-da-ma-rinky-do
God Loves You.

Skid-da-ma-rinky-dinky-dink
Skid-da-ma-rinky-do
God Loves You.

He Loves you when you're happy
He Loves you when you're sad
He loves you when you're really crook
Or If you're really mad

So Skid-da-ma-rinky-dinky-dink
Skid-da-ma-rinky-do
God Loves You.
God Loves you
*He really does now*
God Loves you
*He really does now*
God Loves you
Skid-da-ma-rinky-dink--a-dink-a-do-ahh.

Those lyrics were drilled into my head.

[Blob_ZPS]

How is god not bound by time, yet created earth and what not in seven days?

I just can't accept that he (god) has been around 'forever' there must've been a point in 'time' when he did not exist and he was created/somehow created himself (see big bang theory )

Well, time was created with the universe.

So if something created the universe, they also created time. Thus are not bound by the rules of time.

The word like 'forever' indicates time, the concept of time is hard wired into our brains, so it's hard to comprehend the non-existence of it. But "before" the universe existed, time did not exist, so there's no concept of something being around forever.

Time is just kind of a part of space, so for something to have existed during some "null time" means they must not physically exist, unless he is inhabiting a 3 dimensional submanifold of the timespace continuum or some BS.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Time is just kind of a part of space, so for something to have existed during some "null time" means they must not physically exist, unless he is inhabiting a 3 dimensional submanifold of the timespace continuum or some BS.

Not physically no, more like beyond our comprehension of what existence is.

[Spoonguard]

The further back in time you go the more bizzare the physical properties of the universe are. In the first million years, the universe was a opaque plasma soup. Go further and the universe is so hot and dense that no matter can form. Go back into the initial microseconds of the universe it's so dense that not even light can form, and the fundamental forces are unified.

It only gets more mysterious in the state of the universe in the "plank time", that is, the period of time which is the smallest possible observable unit of time: very roughly equal to 5.4×10^-44s. Here we assume that all the fundamental forces are unified, and by extrapolating the expansion of the early universe backward we arrive at the rather absurd conclusion that at some point the universe was infinitely dense, or at least so dense that any distance can be traversed in zero time.

My understanding of this is rather crude - I lack even a rudimentary understanding of the mathematics involved - but a universe that is infinitely dense would have no time, no space and properties we cannot extrapolate from currently observable phenomena. Hence the continual building of apparatus to observe collisions of ever higher energies - the hope is that stuff like the force-unifying phenomena can be observed and theories can be confirmed around it.

[Blob_ZPS]

That doesnt mean it came out of some big gods bum.

[Spoonguard]

That doesnt mean it came out of some big gods bum.

it doesn't mean that it didn't either

[toofast]

I just can't accept that he (god) has been around 'forever' there must've been a point in 'time' when he did not exist and he was created/somehow created himself (see big bang theory )

Christian god is not the only god.

SM captures what i said best. Which is what if god existence is something beyond what we can comprehend. Dimensions comes to mind. What if there is a 5th dimension (the path of time and space, right physics guys), so for all we know there could be people just like us moving through time, who we will never bump into. An effective parallel universe. You should never close your mind off the idea there are things which are beyond your (or even everyones at the current time) understanding.

[Zarkov]

I would have to say that anything that exists outside space and time would be incomprehensible to humans.

I don't mind religious people saying there exists some kind of God or afterlife beyond our universe, since there's no way for us to tell, there could be.

What I don't like is people trying to describe it, where by it's nature is impossible to describe. And then basing how they live their life and actions on those descriptions, at least when those actions are negative and promoting intolerance.

That's how religious people talk.

Because they don't want to think about something themselves, they say stuff like: "it's beyond our comprehension" etc.

I bet if I had enough information, I could understand it.

What I don't do, is invent explanations for things I don't understand, and neither should you.

[Kayne]

Just another question

Do christians believe in god because They want to be at one with god or They want to go to heaven?

[Spoonguard]

Just another question

Do christians believe in god because They want to be at one with god or They want to go to heaven?

Why would they need a reason to believe?

[Kayne]

Just another question

Do christians believe in god because They want to be at one with god or They want to go to heaven?

Why would they need a reason to believe?

So you are saying they believe for no reason, because they are told to? (Going over that, I think some actually do believe in god for no reason). They have no self choice over the matter?

[toofast]

Just another question

Do christians believe in god because They want to be at one with god or They want to go to heaven?

Why would they need a reason to believe?

So you are saying they believe for no reason, because they are told to? (Going over that, I think some actually do believe in god for no reason). They have no self choice over the matter?

I could ask you why black people like fried chicken?

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Just another question

Do christians believe in god because They want to be at one with god or They want to go to heaven?

That's quite a generalized question, the reasons are different for different people.

[Spoonguard]

Just another question

Do christians believe in god because They want to be at one with god or They want to go to heaven?

Why would they need a reason to believe?

So you are saying they believe for no reason, because they are told to? (Going over that, I think some actually do believe in god for no reason). They have no self choice over the matter?

I meant, it's more of a thing they know. It is possible to conclude that your existence is full of purpose endowed by a benevolent deity. Of course, you may also have to indulge in fallacies and cognitive dissonance as well, but these are not reasons to believe, as some deal struck for your faith.