Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I personally believe the God/spiritual thing is created for those who fear death. Its a weak minded thing. One day the realisation will hit them like a freight train.

How so? Millions of people having already died believing in God, nothing hit them like a freight train.


Unless they were killed by a freight train.


And insulting someone by calling them 'weak' minded in unnecessary, how can you have any idea what a weak or strong mind is?

[swindle]

I am not necessarily referring to the current generation of believers. That was probably to broad of a statement, but whatever...

And believing in something like religion IS weak minded. Spin it how you want, the more you read, the more you learn, the more you research, the more you listen - you learn that religion is for the weak and feeble mind.

[video]5wV_REEdvxo&feature[/video]

[Blob_ZPS]

I think youre tarring all religions and all religious people with the same brush.
Not every religious person is a fundy.

[swindle]

No.

But any religion is a form of intellectual slave-holding, and therefore of no good or value to the future progress of the human race as a whole.

It creates a disgusting segregation, which in turn would only seem to lead to bloodshed and suffering. How much blood has been spilled in the name of gods over the past 4000 years? To what end? Only for the god and its followers to be forgotten, die out and vanish in the sand of time.

No one believe in the existence of Zeus anymore.

Its only a matter of time before the realisation that we are all made of the same organic decaying matter as the rest of this world becomes the only belief we hold.

[Zarkov]

As to what you've filled it with, you've obviously managed to develop a mental construct of the universe as you experience it, that doesn't require a deity. I've done the same.

Very good. And correct.

I personally believe the God/spiritual thing is created for those who fear death. Its a weak minded thing. One day the realisation will hit them like a freight train.

We're all dying, from the moment we are born.

@Tiwa - Will watch when i get my bandwidth back. I watched the 1 minute long Windows 7 Phone add today, 18 minutes to buffer. FML.

I'm unafraid of death.

It's the preamble that scares me.

[Blob_ZPS]

No.

But any religion is a form of intellectual slave-holding, and therefore of no good or value to the future progress of the human race as a whole.

It creates a disgusting segregation, which in turn would only seem to lead to bloodshed and suffering. How much blood has been spilled in the name of gods over the past 4000 years? To what end? Only for the god and its followers to be forgotten, die out and vanish in the sand of time.

No one believe in the existence of Zeus anymore.

Its only a matter of time before the realisation that we are all made of the same organic decaying matter as the rest of this world becomes the only belief we hold.

People are pretty good at killing each other with or without religion.
Its not so much religion thats the problem, its organised religion whereby people can be manipulated by "god" like lemmings.
from wiki: "A religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe,..."
One could argue that science is a religion, in which case I am a devout priest
The only realy difference between science and religion is that science tests its theories/predictions whereas "religion" (accepting the mainstream idea that religion is somehow supernatural) is by definiton unfalsifiable.

[swindle]

The only real difference?

Since when was religion trying to cure cancer?

Science and religion are at each end of the spectrum. So far removed from each other, that they are not even slightly comparable. You are doing what so many other people are doing, and treating science like its some kind of "following".

And yes, people are good at killing each other, for any reason what-so-ever. However, do we really need another one? That has a following of billions? ...No. We don't. Also, what religion is not organised? People are not manipulated by "God" either (shit dude, you miss the mark big time here) they are manipulated by the man up the front, preaching whatever he likes in his own interpretation of a story book that was wrote 1000s of years ago.

Don't confuse things.

[Blob_ZPS]

The only real difference?

Since when was religion trying to cure cancer?

Science and religion are at each end of the spectrum. So far removed from each other, that they are not even slightly comparable. You are doing what so many other people are doing, and treating science like its some kind of "following".

And yes, people are good at killing each other, for any reason what-so-ever. However, do we really need another one? That has a following of billions? ...No. We don't. Also, what religion is not organised?

I said "from wiki:A religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe,:
Under that definition, science is a religion.

Science and religion arent so different, theyre both ways of explaining the world around us , the main differences are is that science is right and doesnt ask anything of its "belivers" other than to have an open mind and adhere to the scientific method.

[swindle]

I said "from wiki:A religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe,:
Under that definition, science is a religion.

Science and religion arent so different, theyre both ways of explaining the world around us , the main differences are is that science is right and doesnt ask anything of its "belivers" other than to have an open mind and adhere to the scientific method.

Science is NOT "right". Science is a method for us to use to help determine the world around us so as we have a better understanding. There is no right and wrong, there is method to help to prove of falsify whatever we are looking at. We gain understanding.

AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS WITH MORE THEN ONE CELL! Religion does NOT help explain the world around us. Saying that, makes me think you have almost no idea what you are talking about, nor how serious and dangerous religion is.

[Blob_ZPS]

You misinterpret what im saying, I never said it helps, i said it was a way of explaining the world around us and I also said it was the wrong explanation.
I think you may not realise how similar science and religion really are, this is the part of the cause of the tension between them!
Science as a belief is a belief in the scientific method itself, which provides explanations to how the universe works, religion is a belief that explains how the universe works by a giant flying wizard. Just because one is right and one is probably wrong doesnt change the fact that they are both beliefs.
Despite the fact that science is falsifiable the current theory is at root a belief, backed up with empirical evidence (which gives it its leg up over superstition), theories often change (this is the beauty of science, a kind of natural selection of theories) and as they change so do our beliefs about the way in which the universe works.

EDIT:
When I say right I mean it gives us the best "correct" explanation available, I am not inferring that science its self is complete in any way but I am saying that the scientific method is like an algorith which itself will eventually lead us to the best possible explanation...

[swindle]

Please, explain to me the similarities between science and religion that make them so similar?

This will be very interesting.

[Blob_ZPS]

Please, explain to me the similarities between science and religion that make them so similar?

This will be very interesting.

I say AGAIN.
From the wiki definiton:
A religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe
Unsure if trolling?
This is the definiton I am basing my argument off, in this way, religion and science are similar.

I accept that you may be using a different definiton about religion regarding belief in a flying wizard or w/e other supernatural being/imaginary friend you desire and in that case I agreewith you totally, theyre completely different.

[swindle]

No. No troll.

I'll ask again, what makes science and religion similar?

The bold part, is that your answer? If so, then you are so terribly wrong. Science does not concern itself with a set of beliefs to help explain the cause (what the fuck is that anyway?), nature, and the purpose of the universe.

So i must wonder if you are trolling?

[Blob_ZPS]

Are you talking about the scientific method itself?
If so I agree with you.
I am talking about science as a discipline, to say I "belive" in science is to say that I accept the findings of the scientific method and belive in the validity of its findings.

Also worth noting that unfalsified scientific theories are basically religion.

[swindle]

Unfalsified scientific theories are unfalsified scientific theories. Simple as.

As for the similarities between science and religion, forget about it.

[Blob_ZPS]

Unfalsified scientific theories are unfalsified scientific theories. Simple as.

As for the similarities between science and religion, forget about it.

Ok then i present to you a theory that the earth was created in seven days blah blah blah....
Despite the fact that its easy enough to disprove by counterexample (potassium-argon dating/cosmic microwave background/... take your pick) its still a theory until proven or disproven.

The line between science and religion isnt as black and white as you claim, thats part of the problem.
People try and pervert science into supporting their wild claims about genesis or w/e and thats dangerous because it sounds almost plausible.
You have to realise that if science and religion were as different as you claim there wouldnt be such things as "christian science" or other abominations.

You also have to be careful not to claim that every religious person is asome fanatical fundy, despite the fact that they may belive in something that is probably according to science incorrect that doesnt make them inferior.
That in itself is a fallacious argument just because some "A"'s are "B"'s doesnt mean all B's are A's.....
Being fallible is part of being human, many of the greatest scientists made erroneous predictions/theories such as Newtons waveless model of light.
Where the fanaticism comes in is when you show someone clear cut evidence that they are wrong and they brush it away as heresy or something.

ut errare humanum est repetere est bestiarum
| to make mistakes is human, to repeat them is of beasts

[swindle]

Ok then i present to you a theory that the earth was created in seven days blah blah blah....
Despite the fact that its easy enough to disprove by counterexample (potassium-argon dating/cosmic microwave background/... take your pick) its still a theory until proven or disproven.

It is easy to disprove. And has been. Some time ago, by carbon dating.

Carbon dating is not a counter example to the bible either... lol?

The line between science and religion isnt as black and white as you claim, thats part of the problem.
People try and pervert science into supporting their wild claims about genesis or w/e and thats dangerous because it sounds almost plausible.
You have to realise that if science and religion were as different as you claim there wouldnt be such things as "christian science" or other abominations.

It is black and white. What is this Christian science you speak of?

You also have to be careful not to claim that every religious person is asome fanatical fundy, despite the fact that they may belive in something that is probably according to science incorrect that doesnt make them inferior.
That in itself is a fallacious argument just because some "A"'s are "B"'s doesnt mean all B's are A's.....
Being fallible is part of being human, many of the greatest scientists made erroneous predictions/theories such as Newtons waveless model of light.
Where the fanaticism comes in is when you show someone clear cut evidence that they are wrong and they brush it away as heresy or something.

ut errare humanum est repetere est bestiarum
| to make mistakes is human, to repeat them is of beasts

As for that part...

You should read the last part, and then the start part. Continual obvious contradiction. You've done it a few times.

[Blob_ZPS]

1: I already said that - for the record carbon dating has been superseeded by potassium-argon.
EDIT: radiometric dating is a counter example to the bible inferring the existence of dinosours a few thousand years ago.

2:Pretty lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_science

3:Its not a contradiction if they havent been SHOWN said evidence.

[swindle]

I was referring to the statement of "to repeat them is of beasts"... Suddenly Greek gods come to mind?

Thanks for the link

[Blob_ZPS]

Oh yeah well, the people that dont admit the error of their religious arguments often arent worth arguing with, its an argument you can't "win" because theres no way youre going to convince them to agree with you no matter how simply or conclusively you spell it out.
Theyre always going to come out with some hand waving argument "god doesnt want us to see him" "god works in mysterious ways" "science is made by satan to sway the beliefs of the faithful".
In that way they are like beasts, youd probably do a better job of teaching a dog the scientific method, at least it understands cause and effect so far as to get food for doing certain obedient actions.

Its a latin quote, probably comes from some sort of old roman manuscript or something.

Christian science is very LOL, im sure youll fund it quite amusing.



On a tangent,
In one of my lectures a lecturer made the comparison between blind faith and paranoid schizofrenic delusions, quite interesting to think about the fact that a significant portion of the population could be diagnosed with a serious delusional disorder.

[toofast]

The only real difference?

Since when was religion trying to cure cancer?

Science and religion are at each end of the spectrum. So far removed from each other, that they are not even slightly comparable. You are doing what so many other people are doing, and treating science like its some kind of "following".

And yes, people are good at killing each other, for any reason what-so-ever. However, do we really need another one? That has a following of billions? ...No. We don't. Also, what religion is not organised? People are not manipulated by "God" either (shit dude, you miss the mark big time here) they are manipulated by the man up the front, preaching whatever he likes in his own interpretation of a story book that was wrote 1000s of years ago.

Don't confuse things.

Christianity is a religion, religion isn't just Christianity. I think you should remember that.

And because you will say something like tell me how religion helps the world. I say look at the indian and east asian religions. They preach nothing more than understanding, compassion and respect for others. And ofc you say, people shouldn't be nice for the sake of a hope of reward after death, and i respond, most of these religions preach the idea of reincarnation, rather than a heaven or anything.

I think you should think carefully about what you are saying, and really examine the different kind of beliefs around you, before spouting off nonsense against Abrahamic religions directed at all religions.

Also i must ask, what is so weak minded about wanting to think there is more to the world than what we see around us, and hope thats there is greater good being served, when badness strikes around you.

Also, I would be interested to know when religion was saying to not cure cancer? Science and religion can reside happily beside one another. Its the people who embrace the idea, who draw that line in the sand, and believe the two are incompatible.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

mmmmmmmmmmmmm pie. I went to the store to buy the famous 2.50 pie... and i find that it is 3.50!!!

WHY DID YOU INCREASE THE COST OF THE PIE I THOUGHT. so i thought i'd ask. oh... putting up the prices i see! thats good (but i was a bit dissapointed but i understood why he may have done so."

so he told me, to compete with the guy next door! so... i duck in and have a look. and its all flash and fancy, and the pies are 4.50 each.  so... i go back into the bakery and buy one of his pies at the new 3.50 price.

i nom the pie and as i nom the pie i see he added more meat, and the pastry seemed to be flakey too!

so... win morning has been win.

I have a problem with christian science. Just as i have a problem with mormons JW's and catholics lol

There are only a few things i would agree with. Say for instance praying. That has power. I've seen the dead get raised the sick get healed and some crazy shizzle happen in my life.

but the idea that everythign is spiritual and everythign else is a distorted illusion is just dumb

[SteddieEddie]

you have seen the dead get raised, holy shit I thought only Jesus could do that

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Jesus, and Zombies.

[Retardobot]

Jesus, and Zombies.

Technically, Jesus is a zombie.