Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Retardobot]

If they believed in the divinity of Buddha: Yes. Yes they are.
Basics of Buddhism

Shhhhhh, Tiwa!

[Oddball]

Too not believe evil is real is evil.

CHECK MATE ATHEIST!!!

I'm actually a little bit confused. I believe in evil but only in what is defined by the word evil, evil itself isn't a being, evil isn't an emotion even, evil is a MASSIVE collective of wrong-doings, to say god created that criminalizes god.

It's the image that confuses me though, it's people that cause the reasoning for following happenings through their actions - If you smack someone, they say "Ow", some people cry, some people tell their older sibling, who punches them, who cries, who tells... Actions have consequences, that's all THAT is.

The argument in that image is no stronger than saying "God is real because God says so".

As for linking silly images, LOOKMA-NOHANDS!



I lied. Is that evil? I used hands both to type this and to copy/paste that link. I'm evil.



And just to prove my point further (of being able to post images too!):

Spoiler :

[Oddball]

My American friend is now telling me about one of the politicians running for president.

This fucking politician running for president
Santorum
I've bitched about him before
More than national debt and healthcare, he thinks abortion is a major issue for the US
(as is banning pornography)
He wants to ban abortions even if the woman is going to DIE from the pregnancy
or if she's been raped
because the bible tells him so

[Tiwaking!]

Nope~!  Don't have to go to a priest, Rabbi or Rebbe.  I can just talk to Jesus.   Whats the point in talking to one of those if i can go straight to the source?  This is why Jesus died on the cross so we can go straight to God.

Oh hello there.

Remember how I said "Intercession is a dodgy issue in Christian Theology"?

Well you've highlighted exactly why it is dodgy.

 
This has NOT been the way it has always been. In fact, the idea of a personal God is a fairly recent invention in Christian Theology, back in the 18th century when Christianity became half-way sane. Before the Reformation, Christianity was what Islam is today. Islam has not gone through a Reformation and probably never will.

So, the question is: Priests, Rabbi's, Rebbe's, pastors, ministers, archbishops: Why do they exen exist?
Why do churches even exist?

But probably the biggest thing I dislike about Christianity is the ignorance of most of the followers. Most have no idea the history of their religion, what preceded it, the political environment it evolved in, how it came about, why they believe it, and why it is so popular.

To be honest I would replace the word 'most' with 'all' in your sentence.

They are all ignorant.

[Oddball]

That reminds me of a child-hood event of mine, Tiwa.

I was sent to a camp at the age of 12. It was a lot of fun. Except it was a Christian camp.

On the second to last day there was a bible meeting or some rubbish. And they asked everyone to come forward who wanted to hear God speak to them and be a part of their lives. If I was an adult I would of laughed and walked off, or now that I think about it, I would have never been there in the first place. But I was a confused child so I stepped forward. The idiot in charge said some stupid words I believe they call "praying". Needless to say God did not speak to me. OR ANYONE. Then the adults started crying, the children all look confused and started doing it too only it was fake. I know that because I faked it too or I would of been the only one there left out, pathetic enough to be the only person in the entire room who God did not want. What an idiot I was as a kid - to let something so pathetic make me feel unwanted.

This is why it should be illegal to teach Christianity to children - they believe what adults tell them.


--

God does not talk to people
If you hear the voice of god you have schizophrenia

No one sees God
If you see God you have schizophrenic or psychotic hallucinations

Am I making this up? Would I even know what a hallucination is? What it's like?

Actually... Yes I would. I've seen him too and it was horrifying; the fact is that I've had full blown psychosis since the age of eight and even then I did not hear or see God when the fake preacher asked him to come to us.

[Kayne]

May have said this before, But i was tricked by gawd too when I was a younger (age , and fully agree about Christianity not being taught at school.

Every Wednesday a guy would come in for half an hour / an hour and preform magic tricks. He was the bible study teacher. Every trick he did, He said god did it.

One trick was a bible, that would have fire come out when it was on a certain page. Another was an optical illusion, where he had two round cards, that would look bigger than the other when one was placed in front of the other, yet they were the same size. God did it. One of the big ones was during the only bible study school assembly we had, Where there was a small guillotine. He put a carrot in it, The blade came down, and chopped the carrot in half. He then got some kid to come up and put his finger in. He said "If you believe in god, You're finger will remain unharmed". Of course nothing happened... God saved the kids finger, I guess.

This worked, I believed in god. Until I was about age 13, Where I remembered all of this, and asked myself if it was all really that believable. I didn't go through any hard times or anything like that, Didn't "lose my way". I just remembered the tricks that were pulled.






And thats why im an athiest.

[Tiwaking!]

Surely those stats represent the distribution within the greater population. Or did I miss something?

Technically: No, those stats do not represent the distribution within the greater population. If they did then that would mean, by ridiculous extrapolation, 38% of the 2-8% of the Atheist population in England/Scotland would be criminals. That is a significant population of bad people!
Incidentally, if you have ever seen the whole '0.2% Atheist Prisoners' statistic, it is false. It comes from
http://holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
Unfortunately it dates from 5 March 1997, and deals with America.
One of the reasons I do not like looking at American prison statistics is:
a) They have a depressingly high number of prisoners.
b) Not a secular nation.

This is very interesting Tiwa thanks for taking the time to post.  It will be interesting to see other prisoners other than just Scotland.

I was under the impression that it was against the law to ask prisoners for their religious orientation,but it appears to be only that way in New Zealand.

An interesting side note is that in the pdf link you can see the 'trend' of prisoners from 1997 to today. The number of 'no religion' jumped an absolutely HUGE amount.

That second link was very interesting. I also noticed

I also bring up my point about in-prison conversions again

I am pretty sure they survey people who enter the prison about their religious orientation. Dont quote me though.

Also: While hunting for New Zealand Statistics on religiousity, I ran into this

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5011488/Faith-based-prison-unit-told-to-prove-its-worth

Which has a very boring research article about it on the New Zealand corrections site:
http://www.corrections.govt.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/486357/Final_version_of_FBU_evaluation_report_-_web_version.pdf

The FBU at Rimutaka was set up in October 2003 in Unit 7, at Rimutaka Prison.  It has been given the name by Māori of ‘He Korowai Whakapono’ (the Cloak of Faith) Within the New Zealand prison system, the FBU is considered to be a “special focus unit”, a category that also includes five Māori Focus Units, and a Pacific Focus Unit. These are distinct from the “special treatment units” that operate more intensive, psychologically-focused programmes run by psychologists.

PFNZ describes the programme as follows: The  Faith  Based  Unit  is  a  Special  Focus  Unit  that  operates  effective rehabilitative  and  reintegrative  programmes  in  a  therapeutic  and restorative community undergirded by Christian principles and practices.

Long story short: its success rate is the same success rate as not helping at all.

Although this is very interesting, finding numbers for New Zealand prison which have NOT been re-reported by the media is very annoying.

[Retardobot]

Rice, after a few of your answers, I'm curious to know how you view science and how it explains the world around us.

You said you think the Earth is older than 6000yrs (as most evangelical Christians believe that the Earth is in fact this young).

Do you subscribe to science's answer of the Earth being roughly 4.5billion years old? Or do you side with the Christian understanding that Earth is only 6000 years young?

I'm a little confused with what you have said in response to some questions. You believe that humans lived to 700yrs of age once upon a time, do you also believe that we were once giants?

[Oddball]

Wait. People believe that?

Well shit, the atheists are planting fake dinosaur bones in the ground!!

[Easymeat56k]

Finding god in prison gets you points when parole comes up.

[Retardobot]

At times scientists and researchers don't do themselves any favours. Falsifying findings in order to get grants and to get published (holy grail).

[Oddball]

Finding god in prison gets you points when parole comes up.

We have a word for that:

Discrimination


Whether it's race, gender, or religion, it's never okay. If someone is basing your freedom on your belief in a god, that's grounds to sue...

[Who_ate_my_rice]

Sure, although I do not really want to enter debate regarding them as I have crossed those swords many times, but I'll give you a couple.



Also Judges 21, 1-24, the slaughter of a village and the rape of 400 young woman to provide wives to the Benjamites.

And many others. A couple should be all that is required to qualify the statements.

woohooo this is awesome Ape.  Very good questions.   I know for a fact that the bible speakers out against rape.  It says so in Deuteronomy, the same book you quote this from.  From memory the guy who rapes someone has to be put to death.  

Im goign to have a look at the benjamites taking wives.  Im pretty sure these were the people who wanted to rape a man and had gang raped a woman.  they were a sinful people.  I might have the stories mixed up but im goign to have a look!  

Nice ape!  nice
 

common things people ask all the time.

Mr Oddball hello!  How are you doing this evening?   I'll try my best to answer everything you have to say.  I had a quick skim over what you've been saying and im 90% sure i've already answered these questions pages back.

Oh hello there.

Remember how I said "Intercession is a dodgy issue in Christian Theology"?

Well you've highlighted exactly why it is dodgy.

This has NOT been the way it has always been. In fact, the idea of a personal God is a fairly recent invention in Christian Theology, back in the 18th century when Christianity became half-way sane. Before the Reformation, Christianity was what Islam is today. Islam has not gone through a Reformation and probably never will.

So, the question is: Priests, Rabbi's, Rebbe's, pastors, ministers, archbishops: Why do they exen exist?
Why do churches even exist?
To be honest I would replace the word 'most' with 'all' in your sentence.

They are all ignorant.

Come on Tiwa!  What is this    we establish this time and time again that times then were different.   Jesus didn;t come to change teh law, he came to fufill it.

i'll be back later to answer in depth.

ITS TIME FOR BATTLEFIELD 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Oddball]

woohooo this is awesome Ape.  Very good questions.   I know for a fact that the bible speakers out against rape.  It says so in Deuteronomy, the same book you quote this from.  From memory the guy who rapes someone has to be put to death.  

That's some balls, referring to Deuteronomy about rape!

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT :

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

The woman is forced to marry the rapist and live the rest of her life married to him. Who is really being punished?

And it doesn't end there... I'd say this one is even kinder...

Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB :

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

I'm not even going to comment on that.

And it doesn't end with Deuteronomy.

2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB :

Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house.  I will take your wives while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor.  He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight.  You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord."  Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die.  But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die."

This is God giving rape victims to the rapist, then killing a child.




So, go ahead and quote your Deuteronomy, I've quoted mine. Or was the second quote what you were referring to be killing the rapist...



------------

Mr Oddball hello!  How are you doing this evening?   I'll try my best to answer everything you have to say.  I had a quick skim over what you've been saying and im 90% sure i've already answered these questions pages back.

This thread is way too long to read for me

When you asked what offends me about it, it offends me in the belief someone without morals would have power over me for eternity, it offends me in so many ways that I would struggle to no ends just finding the words to portray what is in my head. I see christianity as two things; a way of life for those guilty of blind faith and utmost ignorance milking morals from it as if their lives depended on it's teachings while turning a blind eye to the complete horror, and just the same, as a means to justify murder and rape and an abundance of doings that destroy lives.

[Black Heart]

6000 years aye. google Gobekli Tepe

Tell us your god inspired thoughts on this 12000 year old building. might even be a temple. We can agree it wasn't made to worship your god.

[Black Heart]

BH, you should probably call him Yahweh or Jehovah if you are talking about the Christian deity. "God" is too broad a term to have any meaning. And also, referring to Yahweh as the singular description of "God" infers that there is no potential for other descriptions, and this means you are indoctrinated to the Christian theology because you acknowledge no other potential.

A bit nit picky, I know.

meh, I'm comfortable using god in discussion with Rice, cos I don't think anybody else has a god to ramble on about, in the thread right now. Theres plenty of people that identify themselves as christians, but don't believe in angels, satan, hell. it's quite bizarre how varied and at odds different flavours of it this 'one true religion' are.

[swindle]

Finding god in prison gets you points when parole comes up.

Best post in thread.

Pretty much sums up religion in the whole.

[Oddball]

Best post in thread.

Pretty much sums up religion in the whole.

Christianity has never been anything more than a way to get what you don't deserve out of life.

[swindle]

Christianity has never been anything more than a way to get what you don't deserve out of life.

Then what the fuck is all this thread about?

Summarize it in one word.

[Black Heart]

exploitation

[Oddball]

Then what the fuck is all this thread about?

Summarize it in one word.

That's a bit difficult, or weird even. If I had to summarize religion in one word I couldn't because different religions have different motives. If I had to summarize christianity in one word it would be "greed", if I had to summarize this thread in one word... It would still need an explanation and even then I can't think of anything too appropriate. As this thread covers more than just christianity, more than just religion, I wouldn't know what to call it.

[Kayne]

Then what the fuck is all this thread about?

Summarize it in one word.

Diabetes

[swindle]

exploitation

You win.
 

That's a bit difficult, or weird even. Blah blah blah blah blaaah...

You lose.

Diabetes

You win.

[Oddball]

Well I was going to say Porn, but for some reason I didn't.

[Kayne]

You win.

Always.