Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[ThaFleastyler]

lol you go to one of those churches that are purely in it for the money. no wonder yours views are so messed up. These are the kinda places that korrupt the ignorant into believing a load of crap about how unless they believe in god and DONATE to their church they will goto hell

lol you hang out on one of those internet forums and pass judgments on things you know nothing about!

If they are in it purely for the money, how come I give virtually nothing in terms of finance, and am still allowed to be the leader of one of the main teams there? And what was it about the website that made you come to that conclusion?

[Xt1ncT]

The bible doesn't say anything about God wanting to stop disease/famine/droughts, it just part of the world we live in.

So you're saying that this all powerful being created life only to have it destroyed by the things I mentioned.

Isn't that contradictory?

Thats not how science works, science has to disprove something before it can say it doesn't exist. If you just go ahead and say it doesn't exist without proving it, then you are just as bad as the religious nuts.

So how can science disprove god when it's impossible to prove that god exists in the first place. No-one, and I mean no-one knows for sure that there is a god, just as no-one knows for sure that there isn't.

I think it's best to leave this argument well alone, as no-one will change other people's minds about what they believe to be the truth.

[Xt1ncT]

lol you hang out on one of those internet forums and pass judgments on things you know nothing about!

If they are in it purely for the money, how come I give virtually nothing in terms of finance, and am still allowed to be the leader of one of the main teams there? And what was it about the website that made you come to that conclusion?

I've highlighted the important part of that post.

Religions are some of the most wealthy and powerful organisations on earth - the Catholic Church being the richest.It's pretty convenient how they suppress or attempt to suppress anything that may be a danger to their way of life and their revenue gathering.

See my previous post about Bono's comment on the Rattle and Hum album.

[enile8]

There has been so much bloodshed and lives lost over religion throughout history more so than anything else and mankind is better off without any of it. It just divides us all into these groups which are much like gangs.

[Tiwaking!]

I think it's best to leave this argument well alone, as no-one will change other people's minds about what they believe to be the truth.

Thus the quotations and the typing was finished, and all the host of them. And on the fifth page Xt1nct ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the fifth page from all his work which he had made.

[ThaFleastyler]

By "virtually nothing", I give around $30 a week towards our building fund, which is us trying to move into a new, larger building, because we're too big now for the building we're in. I also donate time during the week towards leading the multimedia team, putting together video and other multimedia pieces for use in services, as well as contributing to the leadership team for the youth program at our particular church. And I sing on the music team from time to time.

Yes, there are some churches that are all about the money (L Ron Hubbard, scientology founder, about 2 years before starting the C.o.S, famously said "I'm going to start a religion - thats where the money is"), and there are some mainstream churches whose leaders benefit too much from the giving to the church. However, knowing the pastor and the leadership at Equip as I do, they are not about the money. And aside from that, the church needs something to survive on. If you want a church to run well, you need a building, you need offices, you need staff, thus you need electricity and other utilities, thus you need money to pay for utilities and wages. Its common-sense.

This is way off-topic. If you want to argue with me about the merits of giving to church, whether my particular church is in it for the money (which it isn't) and other church/money related topics you guys seem to be interested in perpetuating, start another thread.

[KiLL3r]

lol you hang out on one of those internet forums and pass judgments on things you know nothing about!

know nothing about? i wouldnt pass judgment on anyhting unless i knew the facts first. the religous standpoint i have is becaus ei know all the facts i know all the bs that goes on. I went to a catholic school i know more than anything what a load of crap religion is.

[ThaFleastyler]

know nothing about? i wouldnt pass judgment on anyhting unless i knew the facts first. the religous standpoint i have is becaus ei know all the facts i know all the bs that goes on. I went to a catholic school i know more than anything what a load of crap religion is.

Oh - I didn't realise you went to a Catholic school. Obviously you must know the entire history of, current status of, and motives of every church in the world.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

There has been so much bloodshed and lives lost over religion throughout history more so than anything else and mankind is better off without any of it. It just divides us all into these groups which are much like gangs.

Far many more people have died because of car accidents then wars over religion.

Would mankind be better off without cars? I doubt it.

Everything has it's pros and cons, religion makes millions of people worldwide happy, gives them a sense of purpose in their lives, and gives them a moral standard to live by.

I think that would outweigh the negative aspects of religion.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

So you're saying that this all powerful being created life only to have it destroyed by the things I mentioned.

Isn't that contradictory?

But only individual people have been destroyed by those things, not life as a whole, in fact, life has become strong as a result of those thinks, when humankind gets hit a by a disease, they create better medicine as a result, when and area is affected by famine, humankind has to develop more effect ways to produce food from the land we have available.

So, humankind is actully better off with things like disease and famine then it would be without.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

This is why science and religion cant co-exist peacefully. The whole point of science its to further the goals of humanity, in other words: To become God!

I disagree, it may be the goal of an individual person to become God, not of science, science is just a tool for understanding how our universe works.

I believe that science and religion can co-exist, I don't find any problems with it, and I know others which believe the same too.

[Xt1ncT]

Spacemonkey.

I can hardly believe you think more people have died from car accidents than from wars over religion.

Almost every single war ever has been the result of religious differences. Millions of people have been killed in them.

As for the moral standard to live by, do you think that there is a moral standard only because of religion. What a load of bollocks.

Finally, by your reasoning the world is better off because we have cancer, aids, bird-flu etc etc etc. So far the first 2 things are INCURABLE. Hundreds of thousands of people in Africa are dying from Aids/HIV. Tell them that life is better because of disease.

I firmly believe that IF there was this all powerful being, there is no way he/she/it would let these things happen. Not if he/she/it is supposed to be the loving being that relgious nuts purport him/her/it to be.

[KiLL3r]

Oh - I didn't realise you went to a Catholic school. Obviously you must know the entire history of, current status of, and motives of every church in the world.

and i suppose you do? you would have to otherwise your just making yourself look like a hypocrite

[BerG]

when humankind gets hit a by a disease, they create better medicine as a result, when and area is affected by famine, humankind has to develop more effect ways to produce food from the land we have available.

So, humankind is actully better off with things like disease and famine then it would be without.

That doesnt make sense.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Spacemonkey.

I can hardly believe you think more people have died from car accidents than from wars over religion.

Almost every single war ever has been the result of religious differences. Millions of people have been killed in them.

In the last hundred years, far many more people would have died from car accidents then as a result of religion. In fact there hasn't been any major war caused by religion in the last hundred years.

Before that there were no cars, so you can't really make a comparison.

[Xt1ncT]

In the last hundred years, far many more people would have died from car accidents then as a result of religion. In fact there hasn't been any major war caused by religion in the last hundred years.

Before that there were no cars, so you can't really make a comparison.

That's not what you said though - you said far more people have died in car accidents than in wars caused by religion. Now you qualify yourself which is fine - but I'm tlaking about religion as a whole - since it started so I can goback further than the last 100 years - you were the one who said car accidents and therefore making that comparison, not me.

Errrm....what do you call what's going on in Iraq??

Started by Al Qaeda, due to the minority of Muslims thinking everyone else are infidel and attacking the US. And how many people have died in that war/invasion and the Afgan invasion?

WW2 - sure Hitler wanted to control a large part of Europe but he also wanted the "perfect race" and wanted to exterminate the Jews = religion.

Iraq v Iran - down to diferences in stand points in the Islamic religion.

So there's just 3 in the last 100 years. Add together wars in Africa, Eastern Europe and so on, which are partly race and partly religion and we have far more people dead from wars than car accidents.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Finally, by your reasoning the world is better off because we have cancer, aids, bird-flu etc etc etc. So far the first 2 things are INCURABLE. Hundreds of thousands of people in Africa are dying from Aids/HIV. Tell them that life is better because of disease.

The world is not better off now, but it will be once a cure has been found for cancer and aids.

[Xt1ncT]

The world is not better off now, but it will be once a cure has been found for cancer and aids.

Make your mind up.

Either it's:

So, humankind is actully better off with things like disease and famine then it would be without.

Or it's:

The world is not better off now, but it will be once a cure has been found for cancer and aids.

Not both.

You keep contradicting what you've stated previously. Perhaps you need to think about what you're posting beforehand, so that people can't come along and blow holes in them  :rnr:

[ThaFleastyler]

and i suppose you do? you would have to otherwise your just making yourself look like a hypocrite

Actually I do - I went to a Catholic school as well.

Look, I was just making the point that because you visited a website doesn't mean you know about the motives of a church in a different part of the country from you. As for what I was writing, I know the church I go to, and I know my opinion on faith vs religion. Thats it.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Errrm....what do you call what's going on in Iraq??

Started by Al Qaeda, due to the minority of Muslims thinking everyone else are infidel and attacking the US. And how many people have died in that war/invasion and the Afgan invasion?

I don't believe the Iraq is about religion I think it's about politics, it was the US which invade Iraq, because they believe they had WMDs, even though they didn't have any, or maybe it was because the US wanted control of the oil.

And when Al Qaeda attacked New York, it was because they resented the control US had on middle-eastern countries, then US attacked them back because they don't like their cities getting attacked.

Sure religion plays a part, but it isn't the main reason.

In world war 2, Hitler killed the Jews because he was an arsehole, it was his idea, there was no religion at the time saying all Jews must be killed.

You say we wouldn't have had these wars if religion didn't exist. But we also wounlden't have these wars if people like Hitler and Osama didn't exist, we also wouldn't have these wars if weapons didn't exist.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

You keep contradicting what you've stated previously. Perhaps you need to think about what you're posting beforehand,

perhaps you should stop taking my statements out of context.

[KiLL3r]

That's not what you said though - you said far more people have died in car accidents than in wars caused by religion. Now you qualify yourself which is fine - but I'm tlaking about religion as a whole - since it started so I can goback further than the last 100 years - you were the one who said car accidents and therefore making that comparison, not me.

Errrm....what do you call what's going on in Iraq??

Started by Al Qaeda, due to the minority of Muslims thinking everyone else are infidel and attacking the US. And how many people have died in that war/invasion and the Afgan invasion?

WW2 - sure Hitler wanted to control a large part of Europe but he also wanted the "perfect race" and wanted to exterminate the Jews = religion.

Iraq v Iran - down to diferences in stand points in the Islamic religion.

So there's just 3 in the last 100 years. Add together wars in Africa, Eastern Europe and so on, which are partly race and partly religion and we have far more people dead from wars than car accidents.

Iraq has nothing to do with religion. Its just used at propaganda for americas cause

[frog.]

Everything has it's pros and cons, religion makes millions of people worldwide happy, gives them a sense of purpose in their lives, and gives them a moral standard to live by.
.

it is a false comfort.
you should not need a book to give you purpose. we should not need to run to the "teacher" everytime there is discord or loss of harmony, but we do. we can not think for ourselves no more. always running to the people who know better and because of this, look where we are.

[Xt1ncT]

Spacemonkey.

Middle Eastern politics IS religion. You can't seperate the 2, they are far too intrinsically related not to be. All of the differences there are down to religion nothing else. The Sunni's hate the Shia, who hate the Baath's and so on.

Do some research into it and you'll see - my family has spent a lot of time in Iraq just after the war so know a lot about it.

Al-Qaeda resent the US and their control sure - but the way they got the people involved is down to their religious beliefs.

The same goes for the people who attacked the London Underground and the Buses last year - they were young British Muslims, who were indoctrinated i nthe fervent beliefs of the militant extreme Islamists. So one again it was down to religion nothing else.

To say it's all down to the way the US try to control the oil producing Middle Eastern countries is quite naive and only touches the surface.

The IRA v The Ulster Loyalists is or was Catholics v Protestants. Sure the loyalists wanted UK rule in Northenr Ireland - but because they were the same religion.

Wars through British history have been Protestant v Catholic dating back a few hundred years.

The Crusades were about Christians regaining "The Holy Land" - sure about plunder and profit as well - seems to be a theme where Christianity is involved - but the main thing was again religion.

[Xt1ncT]

perhaps you should stop taking my statements out of context.

I took nothing out of context.

You said car accidents blah blah blah. Then qualified your statement. But this thread isn't about religion in the last 100 years, so maybe you're statements need to be within context.

Iraq has nothing to do with religion. Its just used at propaganda for americas cause

Oh come on Killer - surely you're not that naive are you??

Of course it has. Maybe not from the US's perspective, but from the Iraqi and other Islamic extremeists it has everything to do with religion.

The US wanted control of the oil and invented a reason to invade.

The extremeists want the US out of Iraq and so to recruit fighters from all over the world they put forward the idea that it's a religious war or Jihad.

You're just looking at it from one side - not both sides.

The main thing about this sort of debate is that we can all go on ad infinitum, but no-one will ever agree. The religious camp will always believe in a god - and if that's what they need to get through the day good luck to them. Just as the evolutionists/scientists will never believe in creationism. So really bringing up this subject again and again is pretty pointless. All it's doing is giving people a chance to vent some steam and show what they think they know about certain subjects.

Close thread and move along