Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline (BHP)Clyock

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Quote from: Tiwaking!  Not true. The only main differences are: Catholicism & Everyone else. Protestant churches CAN band together and help each other but it's unusual to see Catholics on a large scale(Other than NGO's) actively attend and celebrate Christianity with other denominations./QUOTE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations. Catholicism and everyone else huh?
Go here and look at the everyone else there's over 32 major sects and plenty more inside those. Tell me why is it when there is a discussion on religion it's only about christians?
Religion encompasses everything from Anabaptists to Zoastrians. Gain yourself a sense of perspective. This discission is about the battle of religion and science not an affirmation of your own faith.

Reply #925 Posted: February 10, 2007, 12:06:20 pm

Offline (BHP)Clyock

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;333307
An orange whirly thing in space? Orange, with this suit?

Not true. The only main differences are: Catholicism & Everyone else. Protestant churches CAN band together and help each other but it's unusual to see Catholics on a large scale(Other than NGO's) actively attend and celebrate Christianity with other denominations.

The Passion of the Christ: Worldwide: $611,899,420 - Production Budget: $30 million
The Da Vinci Code: Worldwide: $758,239,851 - Production Budget: $125 million

Pretty close battle I must say

I have to lol at this. If youare suggesting that religion wins this one due to higher profits i have to point out that this picture, made through the wonder of science, did more to damage the relationship between the christian and jewish religions than the act it portrayed.
I give science .5 for this.
Score - Science 3.5 - Religion 0.

Please forgive the sloppy posts, i'm still getting the hang of this.

Reply #926 Posted: February 10, 2007, 02:53:38 pm

Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: Black Heart;333399
you've lost me there. You say my statement (which is my own observation) is unfair, then go on to explain why it's true.
I feel christianity deserves to be attacked, its shown its intolerance and insecurities all too clearly (in the subject that this topic was started on)

Hehehe. Its funny how I told you that it was unfair that you attacked Christianity using solid arguments grounded in fact, then described how what you were saying was in fact true. Christians have been doing this exact same thing for a very long time.

Is there even a term for this form of non-accepting-acceptance statement?

[QUOTE="BHP)Clyock;333457]
Quote from: Tiwaking!
 Not true. The only main differences are: Catholicism & Everyone else. Protestant churches CAN band together and help each other but it's unusual to see Catholics on a large scale(Other than NGO's) actively attend and celebrate Christianity with other denominations.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations. Catholicism and everyone else huh?
Go here and look at the everyone else there's over 32 major sects and plenty more inside those. Tell me why is it when there is a discussion on religion it's only about christians?
Religion encompasses everything from Anabaptists to Zoastrians. Gain yourself a sense of perspective. This discission is about the battle of religion and science not an affirmation of your own faith.[/quote]
I should say you should go back and read my posts to find out what side Im supporting
Quote from: (BHP)Clyock;333617
I have to lol at this. If youare suggesting that religion wins this one due to higher profits i have to point out that this picture, made through the wonder of science, did more to damage the relationship between the christian and jewish religions than the act it portrayed.
I give science .5 for this.
Score - Science 3.5 - Religion 0.

Please forgive the sloppy posts, i'm still getting the hang of this.

I was pointing out that Christianity still makes alot of money. Hell, "Epic Movie" will probably make alot of money. Money makes the world go round

Reply #927 Posted: February 10, 2007, 03:55:06 pm
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Offline (BHP)Clyock

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;333668

I should say you should go back and read my posts to find out what side Im supporting


My apologies, 12 pages of posts is hard on the eyeball, after the first 6 or so i gave up and was responding to the percieved tone of your response to my posts.
I still have to disagree strongly to your split of the christian churches into catholism and the others. You can't dimiss many major christian faiths as just not being catholic. They all consider themselves wholly seperate entities and so should we.

Reply #928 Posted: February 10, 2007, 07:04:06 pm

Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: (BHP)Clyock;333825
I still have to disagree strongly to your split of the christian churches into catholism and the others. You can't dimiss many major christian faiths as just not being catholic. They all consider themselves wholly seperate entities and so should we.

And you are right! But the thing is: Is it a situation of "There can be only one" or "Can there be only one"?

By all rights the first church should be the 'right' one(Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox) since all other denominations came from them.

Christians would(and do) argue that it is lax morals which are turning people away from the church and that the world is getting more violent ect. But the thing is the orthodox churches are giving way to spiritualism which is a huge turn-around for Christianity. By turn around I mean: Its returning to its roots.

Originally Christianity was ill defined. 'Christians' were deemed enemies of Rome and killed. Unfortunately since Christians hadnt defined themselves by any sets of proper rules, other religions were persecuted too.

Sorry. I just realized that I was giving you a lecture and I shouldnt be.

Reply #929 Posted: February 10, 2007, 08:18:51 pm
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Offline frog.

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;333874
And you are right! But the thing is: Is it a situation of "There can be only one" or "Can there be only one"?

By all rights the first church should be the 'right' one(Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox) since all other denominations came from them.

Christians would(and do) argue that it is lax morals which are turning people away from the church and that the world is getting more violent ect. But the thing is the orthodox churches are giving way to spiritualism which is a huge turn-around for Christianity. By turn around I mean: Its returning to its roots.

Originally Christianity was ill defined. 'Christians' were deemed enemies of Rome and killed. Unfortunately since Christians hadnt defined themselves by any sets of proper rules, other religions were persecuted too.

Sorry. I just realized that I was giving you a lecture and I shouldnt be.

where are the origins of monotheism?

christians worship light yes?

Reply #930 Posted: February 11, 2007, 08:14:19 am
pancakesrreal | Everyone of us is high but you

Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: 'frog.;334237
where are the origins of monotheism?

Not going to smack you with too many facts and what not in this post so: Short answer. Pantheism + Power & Prudence = Monotheism. One aspect of dogmatic religion(i.e Egyptian mythos: Aten & Ankhanaten) overwhelms/wipes out the others
Quote from: 'frog.;334237
christians worship light yes?

Because no-one could comprehend God's presence his descriptions all pertain to light. Light helps us to see. You can fill in the rest

Reply #931 Posted: February 11, 2007, 11:17:19 am
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Reply #932 Posted: February 11, 2007, 12:33:52 pm
R*I*P Buddah aka Jeremy Clarke 09.08.09

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: b00sta;334427
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http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4844/zeq2h4scoctu6qvlph4l32eiw9.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Reply #933 Posted: February 11, 2007, 12:35:37 pm


Offline Fragin

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Quote from: b00sta;334427
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ahah love the pic. put it in every thread you can find! gogogo.

Reply #934 Posted: February 11, 2007, 12:56:43 pm
Originally Posted by Templar
If my mother kills someone, then gets out of jail and kills someone again and she is guilty beyond any doubt, then yes I will be sad but she\'d have to go.


Originally Posted by Xt1ncT
You see, you or Pyro doesn\'t get to choose how I define my own words. I do.

Offline Hannibal4life

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Quote from: Arnifix;330907
Where does what you say XOR from what I said?

Care to provide a link to a reputable (non-christian) website that shows there were this many manuscripts, of which I assume you in fact mean fragments of manuscripts, as the idea of 12000 fully intact manuscripts is ridiculous.



Hi Arnifiz,

BTw the link to that credible site you were asking is below.... I hope you find Cambridge University credible.

http://www.cambridge.org/uk/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521816137

Reply #935 Posted: February 12, 2007, 12:19:10 am

Offline Hannibal4life

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;333302
I didnt mean to make it sound like a trick question. Its not. Its loaded. Loaded means it's going to fall only one way but in the same way Christianity is so fractured, you have a choice in which way it can fall(and none of them are BAD ways either!)

In my opinion there is only one christianity: Catholicism. All other Christian denominations came from Catholicism. Although I would say Eastern Orthodox is probably closer to the original teachings, they too have become fragmented.

The defining of God and the Second covenenant forms the basis of ALL Christian denominations. Disputes over the nature of the trinity, the virgin birth and armageddon have all caused splits which turned into movements and then into Denominations.

Oh look I've answered my own question. Its not the answer I want, because I wanted it out of YOU. Now you've learnt nothing


In fact Eastern Orthodox is closer linked to Islam than the original beliefs. Catholic by the way means universal. All Christians believe the same thing. There are minor denominational differences, and to answer another statement the printing press may have allowed for multiple duplication, but the translations of the bible were not what has resulted in many different denominations or flavours of Christianity, rather renewing of particular passgaes and people's individual calling allowing them to identify which denomination would best empower them to fulfil what Christ has called them to do. For instance, Salvation army (love em hate em its still the same point), where they have renewed serving the community by being the leading provider for people care in NZ.

Reply #936 Posted: February 12, 2007, 12:26:09 am

Offline Hannibal4life

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;333302
I didnt mean to make it sound like a trick question. Its not. Its loaded. Loaded means it's going to fall only one way but in the same way Christianity is so fractured, you have a choice in which way it can fall(and none of them are BAD ways either!)

In my opinion there is only one christianity: Catholicism. All other Christian denominations came from Catholicism. Although I would say Eastern Orthodox is probably closer to the original teachings, they too have become fragmented.

The defining of God and the Second covenenant forms the basis of ALL Christian denominations. Disputes over the nature of the trinity, the virgin birth and armageddon have all caused splits which turned into movements and then into Denominations.

Oh look I've answered my own question. Its not the answer I want, because I wanted it out of YOU. Now you've learnt nothing


Glad i asked for that clarification because what you meant to say was "explain the second coming". I will Monday when i have a day off. BTW, i dont know of any differences in how the church views the trinity at all, in sincerity can u post them here so i am aware, as well as approximates to what denoimination believes what. I have involvement with most denominations and have not found this to ever be the case. The virgin birth also has never been denied by Christians. Also movement and denomination are same thing.

Reply #937 Posted: February 12, 2007, 12:30:36 am

Offline Hannibal4life

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Quote from: KiLL3r;334431
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4844/zeq2h4scoctu6qvlph4l32eiw9.jpg
Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread


This reminds me on an experiment in sixth form science - sodium + conc. Nitric acid = mmmm flaming chunks of sodium... teacher hated me for it. and it wasnt me...

Reply #938 Posted: February 12, 2007, 12:37:52 am

Offline Hannibal4life

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I guess the ultimate question is how many public holidays do we get from each each year...

Answer: Science: 0
            Christianity: (well theres easter friday, easter monday, and christmas day, so thats 3...)
                   and if ur jewish u get hannukkah (+1)
that makes 4.

Whats on the board miss ford?

Science 3.5
Religion 4

Reply #939 Posted: February 12, 2007, 12:40:22 am

Offline Hannibal4life

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;333874
And you are right! But the thing is: Is it a situation of "There can be only one" or "Can there be only one"?

By all rights the first church should be the 'right' one(Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox) since all other denominations came from them.

Christians would(and do) argue that it is lax morals which are turning people away from the church and that the world is getting more violent ect. But the thing is the orthodox churches are giving way to spiritualism which is a huge turn-around for Christianity. By turn around I mean: Its returning to its roots.

Originally Christianity was ill defined. 'Christians' were deemed enemies of Rome and killed. Unfortunately since Christians hadnt defined themselves by any sets of proper rules, other religions were persecuted too.

Sorry. I just realized that I was giving you a lecture and I shouldnt be.


There is of course the councils of nicea and Jerusalem that did define most of this. Also looking at where the growth is happening in the church ppl are tending to go to the "pentecostal" side of the church. In fact last census  showed that the churches in declining numbers were catholic, main stream etc. And i couldnt find any stats about orthdox for 1996 to compare

Reply #940 Posted: February 12, 2007, 12:54:43 am

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: Hannibal4life;335013
I guess the ultimate question is how many public holidays do we get from each each year...

Answer: Science: 0
            Christianity: (well theres easter friday, easter monday, and christmas day, so thats 3...)
                   and if ur jewish u get hannukkah (+1)
that makes 4.

Whats on the board miss ford?

Science 3.5
Religion 4


science cure diseases caused by "god"

Science 1000+
Religion 4

Reply #941 Posted: February 12, 2007, 12:59:15 am


Offline Hannibal4life

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;333309
Ouu this is a mean question. Its either Doctor or Lawyer

The main problem is the fact that different personality types skew the results. That is: A Green personality type who is an electrician would probably be very intelligent where's a Red type would just be in it for the helping people/making money.

Lawyer is sixty/fourty: Intelligence & Personality. A skilled debator can swing an argument just as much as an intelligent one.

I guess I'll have to go "Doctor". But dont you use this as an argument that the intelligence is most required of those people who wish to improve on God's Design! Because that is both a low blow and unbecomming


LOL yeah that would be a low blow. Actually that was a loaded question for you. Good point about lawyers but hands down really its doctors eh? I mean law really is more like 40% intel, 40% personity, and 20%conniving.

This was my point:
Although most people identify that there are multiple intelligences (accepted educational theory), since the science vs religion debate is essentially an academic one from the scientific point of view, i'm putting it out there that if "anyone who believed the bible was God's inspired word is  a moron"(pers comm Arnifix) , then the next time ur in chch public under the knife remember the guy operating on u is apparently a moron. Lol hope u have insurance... both medical and life...

I personally know or have known 6 doctors who would openly say they accept that the bible is God's inspired word, and who are active Christians. This is my point in summary: if we accept that Doctors probably have a higher IQ than anyone posting here, then its probably fair to say they are not in fact morons. To say the above generalised fact is well rather niave.

Reply #942 Posted: February 12, 2007, 01:09:07 am

Offline Hannibal4life

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Quote from: KiLL3r;335024
science cure diseases caused by "god"

Science 1000+
Religion 4


God didn't create disease though did he... although he has been known to actually cure people of cancer.

Reply #943 Posted: February 12, 2007, 01:10:19 am

Offline Arnifix

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Quote from: Hannibal4life;335001
Hi Arnifiz,

BTw the link to that credible site you were asking is below.... I hope you find Cambridge University credible.

http://www.cambridge.org/uk/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521816137


"24,260 biblical fragments"

Course Cambridge is credible. So I've highlighted the relevant section above. Fragments != Manuscripts. Fragments = short. Manuscripts = long. If you wanna roll with the debating crowd here, and don't wanna get capped like a punk bitch, you best be representing, not just fronting.

Reply #944 Posted: February 12, 2007, 04:38:35 am

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline Arnifix

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Quote from: Hannibal4life;335013
I guess the ultimate question is how many public holidays do we get from each each year...

Answer: Science: 0
            Christianity: (well theres easter friday, easter monday, and christmas day, so thats 3...)
                   and if ur jewish u get hannukkah (+1)
that makes 4.

Whats on the board miss ford?

Science 3.5
Religion 4


O RLY? PARDON!

Easter = Not originally a Christian festival.

Christmas = Not originally a Christian festival.

Hanukkah = Not ever a Christian festival.

Please reset religion's score to zero.

Reply #945 Posted: February 12, 2007, 04:43:53 am

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

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Quote from: Hannibal4life;335028
God didn't create disease though did he... although he has been known to actually cure people of cancer.


I bet he knows how to use the edit button.

Reply #946 Posted: February 12, 2007, 06:38:57 am

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Quote from: KiLL3r;335024
science cure diseases caused by "god"

Science 1000+
Religion 4


Actually most diseases are cured by the bodies natural immune system.

And as for the real bad ones which the body can't cure, it was science that help them spread around the world in order to infect everyone.

Reply #947 Posted: February 12, 2007, 08:29:58 am

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Quote from: Arnifix;335055
O RLY? PARDON!

Easter = Not originally a Christian festival.

Christmas = Not originally a Christian festival.

Hanukkah = Not ever a Christian festival.

Please reset religion's score to zero.


But they still are all religious festivals.

And yes, Easter and Christmas are Christian festivals, Easter was the Death of Jesus, and Christmas was the Birth of Jesus, it even has the word 'Christ' in it's name.

Reply #948 Posted: February 12, 2007, 08:32:42 am

Offline Black Heart

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Easter was a pagan fertility holiday, christmas was a solstice holiday? christians simply hijacked them because they were too lame to make there own. Also marriage was around before christians.

Penicillin(Science) > Leechs (the churchs prescription for anything from the plague to mild fever.)

Reply #949 Posted: February 12, 2007, 08:58:30 am