Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[krasher]

Why is this accepted though?
Whats wrong with just sharing your opinion without being a complete dick about it?
If people don't agree with your world view, thats their right.

Personal freedom ftw.

ZOMG did freedom of speech just overtake my right to verbalise my opinion. Something is not right here. It feels like somebody just devided by zero.
I insist that you are indeed wrong Dr.W  

I believe the problem here is about where the boundaries lay. I can think what I want, say what I want, and even do what I want (within law then it gets complicated). You on the other hand, and do/think/say what you want. I can insist you are wrong all I like, but you don't have to believe it, and you can waste your time feeling offended or just recognise your sovereign right to do/believe whatever the hell you want....now in saying this am I just putting my beliefs on you...? Yep.

In all seriousness though...I didn't see the clip. Would have been interested though, although if he was all aggressive I probably would have got bored of that pretty quick.

[cobra]

Why is this accepted though?
Whats wrong with just sharing your opinion without being a complete dick about it?
If people don't agree with your world view, thats their right.

Personal freedom ftw.

personal freedom would include sharing your option and being a dick about it

Dawkins was a very good talk - it is a shame he only gets judged on his views on religion and that there is an organised christian hate campaign against him

[Ngati_Grim]

Dawkins was a very good talk - it is a shame he only gets judged on his views on religion and that there is an organised christian hate campaign against him

I saw him and he wasn't a 'dick'.

He was a very well spoken man who has an excellent grasp of the English language. He was there to speak about his (excellent) new book and it was only the 'dicks' in the audience who tried to ask questions about his views on Atheism etc who tried to derail it.

He was gracious, humorous, intelligent and reasonable.

[ThaFleastyler]

personal freedom would include sharing your option and being a dick about it

Doesn't personal freedom also include some understanding that one should respect others' opinions?

By the way, my frame of reference is the interview he did on TV1 with Mark Sainsbury, during which the topic of atheism came up, and Dawkins just came across as arrogant. I have no doubt his talk would have been good, and as I say, I respect his opinion and understand that he is incredibly knowledgeable in a number of areas. I also think that anyone challenging him on a topic that was not on the agenda should have been removed.

[Dr Woomanchu]

They asked him, and if you regard the concept of some mystical higher being(s) as patently absurd, as I and many others do, it's hard not to come across as arrogant or dismissive of people who manage to believe such blatant nonsense. Dawkins has made a mission of it, and is not afraid to be blunt so it makes him seem an arsehole. but no more so than preachers who tell children they'll burn in hell if they play with their own genitals

[Aico]

Why is this accepted though?
Whats wrong with just sharing your opinion without being a complete dick about it?
If people don't agree with your world view, thats their right.

Personal freedom ftw.

You dont know dawkins if you think this You should have freedom but the problem is should people be allowed to spread and promote a cause which is wrong and very misleading. So dawkins has to take a very strong point of view and stand by it, no matter how offensive it may be to some people.

[Arnifix]

Why is this accepted though?
Whats wrong with just sharing your opinion without being a complete dick about it?
If people don't agree with your world view, thats their right.

Personal freedom ftw.

Don't treat personal freedom as some kind of shield against all that ails you. Consider people who believe in circumcision. They are believing what they want to believe and what they believe is that mutilating the genitals of children is important. Personally, I find this repulsive, and anybody who brings up the subject in my presence will be met with scorn and derision. I have absolutely no qualms about disagreeing with their world-view, nor with doing so in a rude or obnoxious manner.

Dawkins does the same thing, but with religion. A lot of people agree with him.

[cobra]

Doesn't personal freedom also include some understanding that one should respect others' opinions?.

no, no it doesn't.  Take hate speach, views based on superstition or views based on ignorance - can you explain why they should be respected?

but i guess you need to discredit Dawkins in someway, he does disagree with you
 

They asked him, and if you regard the concept of some mystical higher being(s) as patently absurd, as I and many others do, it's hard not to come across as arrogant or dismissive of people who manage to believe such blatant nonsense. Dawkins has made a mission of it, and is not afraid to be blunt so it makes him seem an arsehole. but no more so than preachers who tell children they'll burn in hell if they play with their own genitals

it is important to note that Dawkin's views are based on evidence and reason and is open to be questioned - quite different from scaring children into your baseless moral agenda

[ThaFleastyler]

You all associate my position on anything with my Christian beliefs, which isn't fair but understandable.

Still, I stand by my ACTUAL point: whether you agree with someone or not, whether you think they are ridiculous or not, you shouldn't be a twat when telling them they are wrong. Thats just a bad character trait, and it goes for people on both sides of any argument (I think Brian Tamaki is a twat when he shares his beliefs, for example).

[brucewillis2]

Dawkins was a very good talk - it is a shame he only gets judged on his views on religion and that there is an organised christian hate campaign against him

 
I've only just discovered this dawkins guy, now I'm a massive fan. Its the way he explains things, I wasn't much of a fan of religion before but now after listening to him I can understand even more how ridiculous the whole thing is. I'm trying to track down his god delusion as an audio book.

[Ngati_Grim]

Still, I stand by my ACTUAL point: whether you agree with someone or not, whether you think they are ridiculous or not, you shouldn't be a twat when telling them they are wrong. Thats just a bad character trait, and it goes for people on both sides of any argument (I think Brian Tamaki is a twat when he shares his beliefs, for example).

Yes, but it's ALL perception, isn't it, because I don't consider that he (Dawkins) is/was being a twat,perhaps because he comes from a position of validity and reason and isn't unreasonable in the least!
 

I've only just discovered this dawkins guy, now I'm a massive fan. Its the way he explains things, I wasn't much of a fan of religion before but now after listening to him I can understand even more how ridiculous the whole thing is. I'm trying to track down his god delusion as an audio book.

When I get home I'll see who else I can dig up for you

[krasher]

Don't treat personal freedom as some kind of shield against all that ails you. .................................... I have absolutely no qualms about disagreeing with their world-view, nor with doing so in a rude or obnoxious manner.................

What gives you the freedom to disagree with circumcision in a rude of obnoxious manner? Who is using freedom as a shield now?

What use is that attitude anyway. Personally my search is for the truth and I want to help others on the same journey to find it also. Getting all up tight about stuff doesn't really help. That's why I usually don't post in here cos I usually end up getting all pissed off at the dogmatic attitude that seems prevalent.

[cobra]

What gives you the freedom to disagree with circumcision in a rude of obnoxious manner? Who is using freedom as a shield now?

um....look up freedom, if people have personal freedom then they are "free" to disagree in any manner they "personally" choose.

[KiLL3r]

Personally my search is for the truth

from the post of yours i have read in this thread id say you do everything possible to avoid real truth and instead focus on things that make your religous untruths seem more valid in your own mind. And then you have the nerve to pass this rubbish off to others as facts. please, your only fooling yourself.

[krasher]

um....look up freedom, if people have personal freedom then they are "free" to disagree in any manner they "personally" choose.

Post was in relation to the quote.

from the post of yours i have read in this thread id say you do everything possible to avoid real truth and instead focus on things that make your religous untruths seem more valid in your own mind. And then you have the nerve to pass this rubbish off to others as facts. please, your only fooling yourself.

You have misinterpreted me.

[cobra]

Post was in relation to the quote.

my point still stands, read what freedom means - you are not given freedom, it is something that is removed

[Tiwaking!]

Personally my search is for the truth and I want to help others on the same journey to find it also

If I throw a rock and hit a miracle, either:

a) The rock is at fault
b) My idea of what constitutes a 'miracle' needs to be reassessed

[krasher]

Thanks, now I remember why I don't post in here. You have stopped learning and decided you already know.

[Arnifix]

Thanks, now I remember why I don't post in here.

Who's uptight now?

To answer your question, I'm not using freedom as a shield. If somebody objects to my opinions on circumcision, there is a massive raft of scientific study that agrees with me (or more correctly, that I agree with). In other words, my opinion is not an opinion, it's a strongly reasoned position based upon factual evidence.

If you mean that I am using "personal freedom" as a shield solely to enable me to be rude to people, you don't know me very well.

PS. I like your attempt to imply that those of us who believe facts are dogmatic.

[krasher]

Who's uptight now?

Me...reading this thread always makes me uptight. All the closemindedness closes in on me...

[Arnifix]

Me...reading this thread always makes me uptight. All the closemindedness closes in on me...

Oh yeah, believing in facts is really fucking closedminded.

 I'm agnostic. You believe in God. Guess which one of us is more closedminded.

[KiLL3r]

Me...reading this thread always makes me uptight. All the closemindedness closes in on me...

has the world gone inverted or something? is black now white, good now evil, religion now factual?

[SteddieEddie]

To all agnostics.

Saw a good movie last night, The invention of lying. Well the movie was average but the concept of religion in a society that does not lie was brilliant.

Worth watching for that alone

[krasher]

If you mean that I am using "personal freedom" as a shield solely to enable me to be rude to people, you don't know me very well.

Fair enough. I don't. Just seemed you were and perhaps I misread.

 

Oh yeah, believing in facts is really fucking closedminded.

 I'm agnostic. You believe in God. Guess which one of us is more closedminded.

You have already made your mind up. Mind made up = mind closed?
 

has the world gone inverted or something? is black now white, good now evil, religion now factual?

The problem with a few of you in this thread is that you assume that I believe some things and you also assume how I believe them.

"eg: go hate on some homosexuals you douche. searching for truth - lol            -cobra"

Neither of these assumptions are correct. That is why I get tired of posting. You have made your mind up. You are closed minded. About me, about what I believe, about how I believe it, and probably apply the same broad brush to other Christians or people of faith. Closed minded. Bigoted. Not open to learning about how people really think, or what they really believe. Call it what you want but it seems pretty closed minded, and to be honest, if you are that closed minded about Christians, why should I trust any other reasoning you provide. Your attitude undermines your credibility in arguments. If you want to be influential, sharpen up.



I was thinking of watching that movie tonight. ^

[cobra]

You have already made your mind up. Mind made up = mind closed?
 

no - no it doesn't.