Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Who_ate_my_rice]

Feel free not to read this. Don't care really I'm goign to start linking to stuff and you can just take what you want from the pages/articles.  i like to come to this thread with a cup of coffee/tea and some snacks before i play soem games or if i want to procrastinate at work a bit.  

so iced green tea, by Tao Ti, Peach flavour is full! DRINKING STARTS NAO AND POSTING DOES TOO! XD

Finally though, I see the Abrahamic religions as the Axis of Evil. There is a war for our minds. It is being waged by the forces for rationality and the forces for superstition.
That's how I percieve it.

Grim, you are fighting a battle that cannot be won.

didn't realise we were fighting :3

Every field of human knowledge is afflicted by varying degrees of superstition, from Physics to Accounting.

Blob_ZPS
Physics is science, based on EVIDENCE not superstition.

We should aim to free the organising of our societies from any organised religion and superstitions, not just theism. Trying to relieve theists of their faith is counter-productive, people need to find some sort of comfort in this grotesque universe. But at no point should any of us be so arrogant to assume, for example, that our "personal relationship with Jesus Christ" should apply to anybody else.

You can aim to do that as much as you like You are free to do so! And you are right it is counter-productive. The kingdom of God will only grow larger Its like when Jesus shared the parable about the mustard seed.

Who_Ate_My_Rice , Since you seem incapable of answering my question directly

what was your question? o_0....

I guess I will have to answer it for you. Maybe it was my intention after all; you are not completely wrong in accusing me of Sophism! I find it difficult to consider you a reasonable person

Why are you answerign for me? define what a reasonable person is?

when you say that you think sin and virtue should be governed by reason, not superstition, and then say without (superstitious) faith we can find no salvation in our virtue. Surely that would not matter to a being worthy of my devotion.

And anyway, if I should find myself in "Heaven" I very much suspect it will be a punishment, as heaven is going to be filled by most accounts with insufferably smug, brittle minded winners of idiotic wagers of faith. Hell is where all the interesting people are going from what I hear. How am I to know what everlasting happiness is without some suffering, anyway? Better to Masturbate in Hell than to Suck Dick in Heaven.

Again, you pretend to know everything about christianity hahahah but i can clearly see you haven't read the bible. If you had read it you would know Heaven and Hell are nothing like you think it to be :3 You wouldnt have anything to masturbate because it will be burnt off hahahahahah  and what... you don't find me interesting? awwww i feel hurt!

have a read of this if you like. Just a warning to those who read it. It will either be sobering, informative or it will make you angry. How ever you decide to take it is entirely up to you
These are testimonies shared by 7 columbian youths who share what they saw when they were taken by Jesus to heaven and Hell.
http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/7_Jovenes/English_7_Jovenes_Hell.htm
http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/7_Jovenes/English_7_Jovenes_Heaven.htm

man grainwaves are so bad~ you start eating one or two then you cant help but keep eating all of them.  :3

Anything outside the observable universe is in the god box.

I got re-interested in this thread because of Rices comments re: what you woudl say if god appeared in front of you. My position is that if he/she/it appears in front of you, then they aren't god(s)

The problem is that gods by their very definition are unfalsifiable. If gods become measurable and explicable, they're just science. Which is why peoples gods always move to fill the bits science hasn't got to.

But then ofcourse you're running into the verification principle which disproves itself. And yes you are right Doctor God is unfalsifiable. But remember a statement doesnt need to be falsifiable for it to be accepted as true. You could then go on to say, Atheism is falsifiable, and it is falsified, and therefore its negation which is theism is true.

I liek this Doctor this is good stuff. As for the " if he/she/it appears in front of you, then they aren't god(s)", remember what i believe in is that when its time for me to go home/kick the bucket/kark it/die i will stand before God. In which case i can say, hey why did the knife stop working when i tried to knife Woomanchoo the other day. Was it sheilds? then God might answer, "no my son. He has hax."  And remember he has appeared to us before~~ Jesus! He walked this earth, and died on the cross for all our sins, past, present, and future.

Just wondering, Rice... How can you be certain your level of belief is the correct one? I mean, how do you know that your interperetation (which is indeed something completely separate from the morals taught by the old testament) is the correct interperetation over say, the Christian from another church next door, who may indeed be destined to go to heaven where you are determined to go to hell?

You say your faith is based on your personal relationship with Jesus, and follow his morals written in the New Testament, and that's what will eventually get you into heaven. How do you know his teachings, or indeed his existence, to be true?

can't know for sure bro. But i see God working all the time in my life. And i get corrected by people too. If i do soemthign wrong, in terms of what i believe my faith in, the body of christ(the church) should say, No you cant keep doign that because of this... or you're arguement here is not correct because of that.... etc etc.  This gives me faith that im following the right path. And also~ the bible is there for me to read, and for me to ask questions on and for God to reveal to me what i need to know to help me grow spiritualy and as a human being. Acts 17:11 reads:
"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." What it says here is that they just didn't take what paul said at face value. They had an obligation to disprove what he was saying as much as proving what he was saying.

but its true we wont know for sure until that day comes Might see you in heaven, where you guys go, shame n00b!  but man i'd be doign crazy kung fu style dances because we're in heaven so i'd laugh with you No more pain no more sadness! would be awesome!! EIther way it makes for one fire-proof insurance policy thats for sure

I feel everyone should know I have recently joined The Church of Harold.

reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilroy_was_here

Our universe, which started with the Big Bang.

Last i checked it was still called teh Big Bang Theory. have a read of this. You might scoff but i cant be bothered typing this stuff out.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n1/big-bang-gods-chosen-method

and if you say string theory is the solution to what came before. Again its a theory. we have no solid evidence and until then we can only speculate. but hey~~ thats why they constructed teh LHC right!

Perhaps I'll just escape through a wormhole.

man i remember the last ep of Stargate Atlantis, where at that LAST SECOND atlantis activated its worm hole drive and saved teh day....... not saying the episode wasnt awesome, i was just a little~~ disapointed they didnt do soemthign even more epic :/ ah well

just need to wait for more stargate movies!  

omg this is tl:dr material... ah well it smells like BC2 TIME!

edit: BC2 IN IMPACT AND AT 18PT FTW!

[Blob_ZPS]

Couple of things id like to dispute.
Ok in reverse chronological order.

wormholes are a legit part of physics
see: matt visser lorentzian wormholes ebook

But then ofcourse you're running into the verification principle which disproves itself. And yes you are right doctor God is unfalsifiable. But remember a statement doesnt need to be falsifiable for it to be accepted as true. You could then go on to say, Atheism is falsifiable, and it is falsified, and therefore its negation which is theism is true.

You dont want to go down this road, it means you could never EVER prove the existence of god.
Besides, if something isnt falsifiable it means we cant observe it, even when we're dead, which implies that there is no heaven/hell if you assume religion is unfalsifiable.
The fact of the matter is, unless youre worshipping some pretty strange religion, god has to have existed at some point to create everything, and to inseminate mary etc etc etc, and assuming he lives in some "heaven", this place must exist somewhere, ergo it is falsifiable.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Our universe, which started with the Big Bang.

Last i checked it was still called teh Big Bang Theory. have a read of this. You might scoff but i cant be bothered typing this stuff out.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n1/big-bang-gods-chosen-method

and if you say string theory is the solution to what came before. Again its a theory. we have no solid evidence and until then we can only speculate. but hey~~ thats why they constructed teh LHC right!

I have no quarrel with you good sir. But don't get started with this "Last I checked is was still a theory" bullcrap, what's that supposed to mean?

I have nothing against someone believing that the big bang was how god created the universe, that's fine with me.

But there is lots of 'solid' evidence for the Big bang, and I don't really see why you are bringing String theory into this.

[Dr Woomanchu]

The problem Blobs, is that you're using logic. Gods are in the bits logic doesn't reach.

[toofast]

Can you imagine people applying such thinking to other fields of study? What if historians rejected recorded history and claimed that World War I never happened because their philosophy does not allow for the possibility of a world war? Would this be reasonable?

There simply isn’t any good reason to believe in the big bang. It is not compatible with the Bible, and it’s not good science.

That link is just terrible. I mean when i saw genesis in the url, i wasn't expecting much, but it is dare i say it has some absurd bits in it. Like SM says, i don't mind someone saying the big bang was an act of god, but to start disputing it using the bible is quite worrying.

Also on the side, i find it interesting everyone seems to be arguing against the Abrahamic religions, and mainly Christianity.

[Blob_ZPS]

Oh btw nothing happened before the big bang, time began at the same instant as space.

[Spoonguard]

Last i checked it was still called teh Big Bang Theory. have a read of this. You might scoff but i cant be bothered typing this stuff out.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n1/big-bang-gods-chosen-method

We shall scoff so much we choke to death, this is the battle. You imagine that I hold unjustified prejudices against Christianity and expect me relieve myself of them by reading this "bible", and yet you hold worse prejudices against scientific theory based on what I can only assume how you think most people think based on the death-grip biblical fallacy holds over your mind.

We don't "believe" in the Big Bang Theory, we have no faith in it. It is merely what we think is the most likely model for the history of the universe. We can say this because the universe has a number of features pointing to a violent expansion from a single point, the most prominent being the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation which fills the heavens. You are correct in pointing out there are a number holes in this theory, but what would you have us do? We can build upon the Big Bang Theory, like so many other theories before it, and come up with a better model the fits our evidence better. How can Genesis possibly be a better fit with the available evidence?

And why should I read the bible to satisfy your perverse lust to infect my mind with your preachy fairy stories? For a book that was supposedly written (and presumably translated, repeatedly) by divine providence it sure is boring and dull. You would have thought that god almighty could have inspired the best authors instead of incompetent demagogues and partial bigots.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

Couple of things id like to dispute.
Ok in reverse chronological order.

wormholes are a legit part of physics
see: matt visser lorentzian wormholes ebook

wasnt disputing their existence some of the stuff stephen hawking talks about is very interesting. i was just talkign about a tv episode that i remembered once you brought up wormholes.  

But then ofcourse you're running into the verification principle which disproves itself. And yes you are right doctor God is unfalsifiable. But remember a statement doesnt need to be falsifiable for it to be accepted as true. You could then go on to say, Atheism is falsifiable, and it is falsified, and therefore its negation which is theism is true.

You dont want to go down this road, it means you could never EVER prove the existence of god.
Besides, if something isnt falsifiable it means we cant observe it, even when we're dead, which implies that there is no heaven/hell if you assume religion is unfalsifiable.
The fact of the matter is, unless youre worshipping some pretty strange religion, god has to have existed at some point to create everything, and to inseminate mary etc etc etc, and assuming he lives in some "heaven", this place must exist somewhere, ergo it is falsifiable.

but but~ you can never EVER prove AGAINST the existence of God If he was falsifiable he wouldn't be God. This means Christians believe that there is nothign higher than God. In which case we dont have anything that can test for his existence. If we could test for him then he's no higher than the thing we're using to test for him. For instance if i set up a microphone will i be able to hear him move around? If i do that means he's subject to the power of the mic. If God has the attributes the bible says he is then he cant be falsifiable.

Our universe, which started with the Big Bang.

Last i checked it was still called teh Big Bang Theory. have a read of this. You might scoff but i cant be bothered typing this stuff out.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n1/big-bang-gods-chosen-method

and if you say string theory is the solution to what came before. Again its a theory. we have no solid evidence and until then we can only speculate. but hey~~ thats why they constructed teh LHC right!

I have no quarrel with you good sir. But don't get started with this "Last I checked is was still a theory" bullcrap, what's that supposed to mean?

I have nothing against someone believing that the big bang was how god created the universe, that's fine with me.

But there is lots of 'solid' evidence for the Big bang, and I don't really see why you are bringing String theory into this.

you know me lubs you mangs :3  

Can you give me some evidence bru~ would be cool to have a look. nothign being smart here, im seriously asking.

Can you imagine people applying such thinking to other fields of study? What if historians rejected recorded history and claimed that World War I never happened because their philosophy does not allow for the possibility of a world war? Would this be reasonable?

There simply isn’t any good reason to believe in the big bang. It is not compatible with the Bible, and it’s not good science.

That link is just terrible. I mean when i saw genesis in the url, i wasn't expecting much, but it is dare i say it has some absurd bits in it. Like SM says, i don't mind someone saying the big bang was an act of god, but to start disputing it using the bible is quite worrying.

ah~ see Toofast, its not to us because if we can't believe in the bible to tell us how the world began, how can we rely on anythign else it says?

for instance in Genesis it says, on the seventh day God rested. now if we take that into acount for a billion or so years....... he rested for that long? and if it also says we should work 6 days then rest for the seventh... are we supposed to rest for a billion years? We have to take what the bible says literally otherwise we cant rely on it for anything

This throws off A LOT of people. "rice you be cray~zey!"

You really do put forth a lot of good points bro.

Also on the side, i find it interesting everyone seems to be arguing against the Abrahamic religions, and mainly Christianity.

its because im such a nice guy ahahah and i like you. You respect what i believe in and we can have healthy debate without you guys thinking im tryign to convert you(because i cant, its not my job)

Hindus wont share because they aren't allowed too. You are born a hindu, and you cant be converted into one. I know my aunties grilled me after they found out i accepted Christ.

Muslim people won't because i don't know... i never seen a muslim share their faith openly before unless we're sharing with each other. One of the teachers in teh mosque i was installing a sound system in said, " we were all born muslim, and its our job to tell people thats what they are!"

Oh btw nothing happened before the big bang, time began at the same instant as space.

so everythign just came to being?

ARGHH ITS 12AM! better goseepees~ night guys. hope you have an eventful day tomorow! ...err... TODAY!

[Blob_ZPS]

Not just everything, everywhere and everywhen came into being too. There wasnt anything before so its not like it magically appeared, the universe always was and always will be.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

Last i checked it was still called teh Big Bang Theory. have a read of this. You might scoff but i cant be bothered typing this stuff out.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n1/big-bang-gods-chosen-method

We shall scoff so much we choke to death, this is the battle.

the battle to scoff to death? Don't do that you're posts are so positive!

You imagine that I hold unjustified prejudices against Christianity and expect me relieve myself of them by reading this "bible",

don't expect much of you to be honest. I dont even know you other than your name and avatar do what you like

and yet you hold worse prejudices against scientific theory

orly? seems like its your personal mission to prove me wrong? Where as i couldn't care less what you did with your life  

based on what I can only assume how you think most people think based on the death-grip biblical fallacy holds over your mind.

oh you mean the Life Grip God has over my life? XD

We don't "believe" in the Big Bang Theory, we have no faith in it. It is merely what we think is the most likely model for the history of the universe. We can say this because the universe has a number of features pointing to a violent expansion from a single point, the most prominent being the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation which fills the heavens. You are correct in pointing out there are a number holes in this theory, but what would you have us do?

how about keep believeing in the big bang theory? Who's asking you to stop? No one keep believing what you want to believe! thats freedom of choice

And why should I read the bible to satisfy your perverse lust to infect my mind with your preachy fairy stories?

LOL My perverse lust.. ahahahahah this is pure GOLD!!  If you don't like it spoonguard feel free just to ignore my posts. If you disagree with what i share so much why even bother coming in here? yer why are you trying to poison my mind spoonguard? ahahhahahahahahahah  And for the record im not forcing you to do anything you have freedom to chooooooooooseee!!

seriously like i said before, take a step back and see that you are doing what you are accusing me of doing.

difference between yourself and i? I have faith you don't. And it seems you're takign this a little to personally.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

Not just everything, everywhere and everywhen came into being too. There wasnt anything before so its not like it magically appeared, the universe always was and always will be.

how can you create soemthing out of nothing?  or if it always existed, then it had come to being before the big bang, in which case how? I migth be misunderstanding you here

NOW FOR THAT BEAUTY SLEEP!

[Blob_ZPS]

Not just everything, everywhere and everywhen came into being too. There wasnt anything before so its not like it magically appeared, the universe always was and always will be.

how can you create soemthing out of nothing?  or if it always existed, then it had come to being before the big bang, in which case how? I migth be misunderstanding you here

NOW FOR THAT BEAUTY SLEEP!

Nothing existed before the big bang, well that doesnt really make sense, there was no before and there will be no after HAHAHAHA, time was created.
In this post I had a little rant about the creator, setting the wheels of motion in place for the big bang, and discussed his possible origins or whatnot:
http://forums.getsome.co.nz/index.php/topic,59504.msg1244527.html#msg1244527

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Can you give me some evidence bru~ would be cool to have a look. nothign being smart here, im seriously asking.

This is a really good presentation, I admit, before watching it, I didn't really have much of an understand of what the cosmic background radiation was and what it meant. But this explains it really well.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/events/lectures_archive.cfm?year=2009&month=6

ah~ see Toofast, its not to us because if we can't believe in the bible to tell us how the world began, how can we rely on anythign else it says?

for instance in Genesis it says, on the seventh day God rested. now if we take that into acount for a billion or so years....... he rested for that long? and if it also says we should work 6 days then rest for the seventh... are we supposed to rest for a billion years? We have to take what the bible says literally otherwise we cant rely on it for anything

This throws off A LOT of people. "rice you be cray~zey!"

This is where I disagree with you, there are many Christians which interpret the bible metaphorically, and for good reason to.

The bible is a collection of many books written by many different people over a long period of time, put together by the church. It was written in different languages, and translated many times. The old Testament would have been pass down by oral tradition throughout many generations, like the creation stories, before being written down. Those stories would have been changed a lot, like any stories do when they are told orally.

Then finely it was translated into English, and even then there are a few different translations of the bible.

Do how can you take that literally? And how can you say we have to take the whole thing literally or none of it at all when it's actually lots of books written by lots of different people?

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Not just everything, everywhere and everywhen came into being too. There wasnt anything before so its not like it magically appeared, the universe always was and always will be.

You contracting yourself there aren't you, you say it came into being, then say it always was?

I was just reading through this, quite interesting
http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/big-bang.html

The second to last paragraph sums it up nicely

They want to ask why these weird things happened, why there is a universe, and why this universe. Perhaps science cannot answer such questions. Science is good at telling us how, but not so good on the why. Maybe there isn't a why. To wonder why is very human, but perhaps there is no answer in human terms to such deep questions of existence. Or perhaps there is, but we are looking at the problem in the wrong way.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

Can you give me some evidence bru~ would be cool to have a look. nothign being smart here, im seriously asking.

This is a really good presentation, I admit, before watching it, I didn't really have much of an understand of what the cosmic background radiation was and what it meant. But this explains it really well.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/events/lectures_archive.cfm?year=2009&month=6

ah~ see Toofast, its not to us because if we can't believe in the bible to tell us how the world began, how can we rely on anythign else it says?

for instance in Genesis it says, on the seventh day God rested. now if we take that into acount for a billion or so years....... he rested for that long? and if it also says we should work 6 days then rest for the seventh... are we supposed to rest for a billion years? We have to take what the bible says literally otherwise we cant rely on it for anything

This throws off A LOT of people. "rice you be cray~zey!"

This is where I disagree with you, there are many Christians which interpret the bible metaphorically, and for good reason to.

Thats wrong for them to do so. And ofcourse there are places where its OBVIOUS its a metaphor, but you have to be intelligent to look at the text.  And for instance when it talks about things in Genisis as this is this and that is that, as a christian you'd be killing yourself. I can understand looking at different translations. But!!! For instance i look at the New International Version of the bible. Because its the most accurately translated. and apparently it took yeeeaaarrsss to translate it to this text. If i feel as if for instance something isnt clear, i'll have a look at another translation to see what that says. Then armed with that i will start to ask questions.

This faith is not something you just follow blindly. You need to keep your eyes open otherwise you';ll just end up being on of those cows sitting in the back rows of the church chewing on the same word over and over again without growing.

It is also said in the bible that if anyone adds or removes from the bible and tries to change it in any way the plagues written about in the book will fall upon that person/people. They'll pay for it in the end :\

Next thing also for me is that you'd have to rely on the holy spirit to reveal to you what somethign means etc and this throws off most people and thats fine.

i mean you look at catholics they don't recognise baptism by the holy spirit, but in the bible it clearly talks about it.  They also have confession booths where you sit in there.... talk to a father/priest.... and they tell you what you need to do in order to get forgiveness.  

 I can just bow my head in my room and say, Lord forgive me. And if im doing this with a sincere heart, i will be forgiven. I don;t need some priest waving their hands over me telling me what i need to chant to be forgiven.  I can even do this while driving, or running in the park.  

Don't get me wrong there will be people in those churches who are Born Again. Once again i state that its not your attendance to a particular church which saves you, or how much you tithe or what you do for people that will get you to heaven. Its your personal relationship with Jesus Christ. And if you aren't born again you cant. My pastor said to me, a lot of these people who said they were a christian, they didn't have a relationship with Jesus. If they did, they'd have never left.

Because Jesus died for us on the cross, he's created a bridge! A bridge directly to GOD! OH YUS!  so i now have a direct link to God through Jesus. I can tell him everything and i can also get him to lift the burdens of world and put it on him.  God says, my yoke is light, but the yoke of this world is heavy. and running my own business, i can tell you this is very true hahahahahahahaha

ok i went on a bit of a tangent there but im hoping you get what i mean through my hopeless communication skills

I think if we fail to search for knowledge, that would doom us all :/

I hope you are all havign a great morning

[Blob_ZPS]

Not just everything, everywhere and everywhen came into being too. There wasnt anything before so its not like it magically appeared, the universe always was and always will be.

You contracting yourself there aren't you, you say it came into being, then say it always was?

I was just reading through this, quite interesting
http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/big-bang.html

The second to last paragraph sums it up nicely

They want to ask why these weird things happened, why there is a universe, and why this universe. Perhaps science cannot answer such questions. Science is good at telling us how, but not so good on the why. Maybe there isn't a why. To wonder why is very human, but perhaps there is no answer in human terms to such deep questions of existence. Or perhaps there is, but we are looking at the problem in the wrong way.

In a manner of speaking *it* came into being, and by that I mean time as well as space.

[Spoonguard]

Don't get me wrong there will be people in those churches who are Born Again. Once again i state that its not your attendance to a particular church which saves you, or how much you tithe or what you do for people that will get you to heaven. Its your personal relationship with Jesus Christ. And if you aren't born again you cant. My pastor said to me, a lot of these people who said they were a christian, they didn't have a relationship with Jesus. If they did, they'd have never left.

Man, those fucking kiddy-fiddling mary worshippers sure have it wrong! If only they went to MY CHURCH (you should come to my church, my humble pastor isn't quite jesus but man he sure is close <3) they could have our proper faith and relationship with the jebus and all that . Not this fake garbage with the poofy arsing about with the wine to blood and bread to flesh! Cannibalism isn't going to get you salvation! And don't get me started on those raghead Muslims. Oh No my moon god isn't going to let me into heaven if I am pointing am not pointing the right way 5 times a day! And those fucking jews! Hurr god has chosen my people for salvation that is why I can't carry my keys outside of my house on a saturday. Derp Derp why do peeps reject jesus they shud just have faith Derp. Kingdom of god gonna spread like a mustard weed.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

usoundmad

[liquidpain]

Miracles, how do they work?

This video begs for a remix. BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM

[video]PQJaRp6AIgY[/video]

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

That guy Bam'd her hard.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

hahaha need a drum and bass remix! lol you think this is silly? wait till you see benny hin pwn dem sicknesses! Or John Mellor calling on the power of God, its some insane stuff!

Easiest way to see if its silly or not, is to just go and have a look Go check it out. But a lot of people who i say to do this, are to scared to go. For some reason going to some of these meetings just to see if its true or not scares them to much :3

EDIT: just remembered a testimony of this sign writer.  He used to install these HUGE billboards, and one day he was working and soemthing happened and the sign fell on him and landed on his shoulder really destroying his bones and tendons etc. so he was in hospital for ages.... months..... then physio therapy for about a year or two. It would have been horrible the amount of pain he had. He still had to work but he'd have to get other people to do it for him, he was only able to sit and look because of the pain.

Anyways he was just sitting in church listening to the guy speaking. and while he was just sitting in church, he felt the anointing of God. What he described as hot oil pouring all over him, and when he got up... he was healed. Imagine how many times he would have been prayed for! The amount of times he would have prayed himself! He kept the faith, and he was healed.... The mystery of God. Was a powerful testimony to hear and the doctors were even more shocked!

anyways thought i'd share it :3

[Spoonguard]

He got hit on the head

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I don't understand why a Supreme being would only heal people who spends lots of time worshiping him/her/it.

Someones character should be defined by the good they do, not by how much they pray. Thus the Hero firefighter who spend his life saving children from fires, should deserve more to be healed regardless what he believes, as opposed to the billboard guy.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

ok the following is very Christiany(new word) :3 :3 :3 WALL OF TEXT GO!!!

not saying he only helps people etc who only worship God. Like i've posted before, that Jesus died on the cross for EVERYONE. including you and larry down the road. He could be working in your life right now :3

Whether we want to believe this is our choice. We have the freedom to beleive what we want to.

Now what seperates us from God is Sin. There will be No sin in heaven. It will be pure and holy. So that means if we've ever lusted after anyone or had evil thoughts we've sinned, we can't get there. We've all been born into sin because of the fall of man as written about in Genesis. The story of Adam and Eve you've all heard. if you want ot have a quick read this is the link http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3&version=NIV  

Now Christians believe that one of the greatest sin there is, is to reject Jesus Christ.

So..... wait... Good people go to hell because they reject Jesus? that doesnt sound fair !!!! WHy?

Imagine this massive gap that we cant cross.  On one side is us... and on the other side is God. We're seperated from God because of our sin. The gap is there because God cant be part of sin at all. Now when Christ died, he acts like a bridge. So now imagine the cross that Jesus was crucified on, is put down across the gap to act liek a bridge . We now have direct access to God! Now.... the choice you have is... do you want to use this bridge to get to the other side? Do you accept that the bridge exists?

Have a look at this if you like http://gospel-outreach.org/files/NZ/The%20Test%20official%20version%20website.pdf

Its a tract i give out to people when im in town. the first page is printed ont he back of the tract, just skip to the second page, and just have a quick read.

firefighter guy should go to heaven, that would be awesome. But... if he rejects Gods son... He sinned. I san save puppies and kittens everyday of my life... but thats not going to get me into heaven :/ Using the bridge will!

ok better go repalce those diaphragms from this guys speaker... arrghh this is like the 3rd set he's fried -__-;;;

[Dr Woomanchu]

I san save puppies and kittens everyday of my life... but thats not going to get me into heaven :/ Using the bridge will!

The first inklings I had that religion was garbage, was when confronting the priest who played with the kiddies with the concept that someone like Brian Tamaki would go to heaven, whereas atheist kitten savers would go to hell. Even at age 10 it was obvious it was a load of completely self serving dribble served up by religious masters, and swallowed by a gullible flock.