Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline Blob_ZPS

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Atheists vs. agnostics.
KGO

Reply #7700 Posted: October 30, 2010, 10:53:40 pm

Offline dirtyape

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If atheism were all that remained then this thread would still endure. The strong atheists would argue with the weak atheists, and the theological noncognitivists would sit back and troll.

Reply #7701 Posted: October 30, 2010, 11:01:08 pm
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that they are difficult to verify." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Pantheism vs Panentheism

Go!

Reply #7702 Posted: October 31, 2010, 10:15:21 am

Offline cobra

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http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4292416/Sex-offender-invokes-eternal-damnation-fear

so a christian pedo doesnt want to be on the DNA database because it will harm his relationship with god - good to know god doesnt mind child molesters but does have issues with modern law enforcement

Reply #7703 Posted: November 01, 2010, 09:50:43 pm

Offline Blob_ZPS

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Because kiddy fiddling is going to get him straight into heaven.

Reply #7704 Posted: November 01, 2010, 11:00:57 pm

Offline Spoonguard

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Quote from: Blob_ZPS;1327216
Because kiddy fiddling is going to get him straight into heaven.

Jesus touches me at night...

Reply #7705 Posted: November 01, 2010, 11:05:02 pm
        and nothing of value was lost.

Offline dirtyape

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If he can get away with this then how long before breathalysers and blood tests go the same way.

Reply #7706 Posted: November 02, 2010, 10:18:34 am
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that they are difficult to verify." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline swindle

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Quote from: cobra;1327175
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4292416/Sex-offender-invokes-eternal-damnation-fear

so a christian pedo doesnt want to be on the DNA database because it will harm his relationship with god - good to know god doesnt mind child molesters but does have issues with modern law enforcement


It must become so hard to fight for the name of religion when it can be used for such blatant self gain purposes.

Reply #7707 Posted: November 05, 2010, 06:27:40 pm
If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

Offline oefox

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Quote from: swindle;1328474
It must become so hard to fight for the name of religion when it can be used for such blatant self gain purposes.
QFT

Brian Tamaki?

Reply #7708 Posted: November 06, 2010, 10:13:54 am
- badfox

Offline SteddieEddie

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There are billions of religious folk and only a small % are scumbags

Reply #7709 Posted: November 06, 2010, 10:41:55 am

Offline Dr Woomanchu

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I think you'll find the percentage of religious scumbags closely mirrors the percentage of scumbags in the general population

Reply #7710 Posted: November 06, 2010, 10:43:49 am

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Offline Zarkov

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Quote from: Dr_Woohoo;1328656
I think you'll find the percentage of religious scumbags closely mirrors the percentage of scumbags in the general population

The percentage of religious dumbarses is way higher.

It goes with the territory.

Reply #7711 Posted: November 06, 2010, 12:08:08 pm

Offline cobra

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Quote from: Dr_Woohoo;1328656
I think you'll find the percentage of religious scumbags closely mirrors the percentage of scumbags in the general population

for that to be true you would need religious people to be a representative sample, which i don't believe that they are. There is reasonable evidence to suggest that religious people (compared with atheists) have lower intelligence, commit more crime, and are more corrupt.

For how ever long this thread has been going we have not yet had one article of a scientist pedo, yet countless christians have been convicted. i guess a lot of people ask themselves "wwjd" and come up with the answer "molest a child"

Reply #7712 Posted: November 07, 2010, 11:15:49 am

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Quote from: cobra;1328935
Quote from: Dr_Woohoo;1328656
I think you'll find the percentage of religious scumbags closely mirrors the percentage of scumbags in the general population

for that to be true you would need religious people to be a representative sample, which i don't believe that they are. There is reasonable evidence to suggest that religious people (compared with atheists) have lower intelligence, commit more crime, and are more corrupt.


Reasonable evidence? I doubt that.

I agree with Woohoo on this point.

Reply #7713 Posted: November 07, 2010, 11:30:02 am

Offline Dr Woomanchu

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The part of the human psyche that religion appeals to is present in all of us. Each of us finds a different way of dealing with the thoughts and feelings that religion addresses. To claim that those who find the answers through a faith in some controlling influence behind the universe, are more likely to have "lower intelligence, commit more crime, and (be) more corrupt" is a long bow to draw and one that would need clear and substantive evidence to support.

Reply #7714 Posted: November 07, 2010, 12:05:29 pm

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Offline cobra

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Quote from: Dr_Woohoo;1328944
The part of the human psyche that religion appeals to is present in all of us. Each of us finds a different way of dealing with the thoughts and feelings that religion addresses. To claim that those who find the answers through a faith in some controlling influence behind the universe, are more likely to have "lower intelligence, commit more crime, and (be) more corrupt" is a long bow to draw and one that would need clear and substantive evidence to support.


plenty of evidence for the intelligence - and understandable reasons for the difference:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W4M-4TFV93D-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=db2ee09bae0195cc1ecbd026da77245c

Quote
It is suggested that IQ makes an individual likely to gravitate toward a denomination and level of achievement that best fit his or hers particular level of cognitive complexity. Ontogenetically speaking this means that contemporary denominations are rank ordered by largely hereditary variations in brain efficiency (i.e. IQ). In terms of evolution, modern Atheists are reacting rationally to cognitive and emotional challenges, whereas Liberals and, in particular Dogmatics, still rely on ancient, pre-rational, supernatural and wishful thinking.


the crime is backed up by about .21% of the us prison population is atheist, much smaller than the 6-8% of the total us population who are atheist.

being religious is not random so it seems natural that it wont be representative of the population as a whole, i dont think it is that challenging to accept that the religious population will have a different make up than atheists - and given the drivers in having a superstitious world view i dont think it is difficult to accept that "scumbags" are over represented in christian populations.

corruption:

here is the index

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

here is the percentage of athiests:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

correlate away


Reply #7715 Posted: November 07, 2010, 12:52:55 pm

Offline Dr Woomanchu

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You have a flaw in your reasoning. The split isn't between religious and atheist. Atheism is the province of those who have though deeply on the subject, and reached, for them, a definitive conclusion. One that is not the social default, and requires the conscious examination of ethics and morals and the foundation for those. If you haven't made that decision then statistics will identify you as belonging to the culturally dominant religion.

The problem is that you're defining religious as non atheist, when a significant proportion of the population can be viewed as agnostic, or at most, culturally religious. Most western nations are culturally christian, so you'll get many nominal christians in your data set. You'd need to compare offending rates between the devoutly religious and the atheists to draw conclusions.

You'd also have to allow for misrepresentation. If an evil person is trying to present themselves as good, it's likely they'll profess belief in, and adherence to, the teachings of whichever deity was culturally dominant. Someone who is not an atheist is unlikely to claim to be one to curry favour.


Reply #7716 Posted: November 07, 2010, 03:01:33 pm

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Offline Kayne

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Jesus is a metaphor of the sun, as well a countless amount of other religions, including Egypt's religion, Greece, India, and others.

The whole bible (both old and new testament) are based around astrology.

KGO

Reply #7717 Posted: November 07, 2010, 03:22:53 pm
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Top Geary - 27th May 2016 at 12:10 AM
I've learnt to ignore when you say derogatory things to me

Offline Zarkov

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Quote from: Dr_Woohoo;1328981
You have a flaw in your reasoning. The split isn't between religious and atheist. Atheism is the province of those who have though deeply on the subject, and reached, for them, a definitive conclusion. One that is not the social default, and requires the conscious examination of ethics and morals and the foundation for those. If you haven't made that decision then statistics will identify you as belonging to the culturally dominant religion.

The problem is that you're defining religious as non atheist, when a significant proportion of the population can be viewed as agnostic, or at most, culturally religious. Most western nations are culturally christian, so you'll get many nominal christians in your data set. You'd need to compare offending rates between the devoutly religious and the atheists to draw conclusions.

You'd also have to allow for misrepresentation. If an evil person is trying to present themselves as good, it's likely they'll profess belief in, and adherence to, the teachings of whichever deity was culturally dominant. Someone who is not an atheist is unlikely to claim to be one to curry favour.

How does that explain the number of death row inmates who undergo spiritual revelation?

Even if they didn't believe in a god before they entered the prison population, there must have been a religious conversion lurking in them, waiting to be revealed.

Reply #7718 Posted: November 07, 2010, 04:46:12 pm

Offline Dr Woomanchu

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Conversion of convenience. Or more likely, you have some guy telling you that you will continue after death rotting in eternal torment, but if you just believe that <insert god here> exists and are truly sorry, it will be beer n babes for all eternity. As an added bonus, there's no consequence if you're wrong about whichever god dude is on offer. In such cirumstances the only surprise is that some don't convert

Reply #7719 Posted: November 07, 2010, 05:19:31 pm

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Offline swindle

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Quote from: Dr_Woohoo;1328944
The part of the human psyche that religion appeals to is present in all of us.

Woah, woah, woah...

What part of the human psyche might this be?

And in which case, if i have not filled that part with God, what have i filled it with?

Reply #7720 Posted: November 07, 2010, 05:41:07 pm
If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

Offline Nostargate

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Quote from: swindle;1329005
Quote from: Dr_Woohoo;1328944
The part of the human psyche that religion appeals to is present in all of us.

Woah, woah, woah...

What part of the human psyche might this be?

And in which case, if i have not filled that part with God, what have i filled it with?

Pronz, like I have.

Reply #7721 Posted: November 07, 2010, 05:48:59 pm

Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: swindle;1329005
Quote from: Dr_Woohoo;1328944
The part of the human psyche that religion appeals to is present in all of us.


Woah, woah, woah...

What part of the human psyche might this be?

And in which case, if i have not filled that part with God, what have i filled it with?
Unyielding Despair


Reply #7722 Posted: November 07, 2010, 06:26:45 pm
I am now banned from GetSome

Offline Dr Woomanchu

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Quote from: swindle;1329005
Quote from: Dr_Woohoo;1328944
The part of the human psyche that religion appeals to is present in all of us.

Woah, woah, woah...

What part of the human psyche might this be?

And in which case, if i have not filled that part with God, what have i filled it with?

You never think about the universe and your place in it? You never wonder what the hell its all about? You never react superstitiously to coincidence or unlikely occurrences, even if intellectually you know it for what it is? There's a reason religion and spirituality are pretty well universal in human cultures, and it's to do with how our brains are constructed, and the way we think and perceive the universe around us.

As to what you've filled it with, you've obviously managed to develop a mental construct of the universe as you experience it, that doesn't require a deity. I've done the same.



Reply #7723 Posted: November 07, 2010, 06:47:17 pm

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Offline swindle

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Quote from: Dr_Woohoo;1329027
As to what you've filled it with, you've obviously managed to develop a mental construct of the universe as you experience it, that doesn't require a deity. I've done the same.

Very good. And correct.

I personally believe the God/spiritual thing is created for those who fear death. Its a weak minded thing. One day the realisation will hit them like a freight train.

We're all dying, from the moment we are born.

@Tiwa - Will watch when i get my bandwidth back. I watched the 1 minute long Windows 7 Phone add today, 18 minutes to buffer. FML.

Reply #7724 Posted: November 07, 2010, 07:50:44 pm
If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.