Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline Who_ate_my_rice

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I'm not doing that all Mr. Virus :D  

Im not saying, Retardo you're a Christian because you support an organisation that was started by a Christian.

That's like saying you play for the Lakers when you just support the NBA.

Edit:  Black Heart, you'd have a better understanding of where i'm coming from if you read the Bible.  Because you haven't or don't want to its easy to see why you'd have this opinion :)
Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 01:22:51 pm by Who_ate_my_rice

Reply #7925 Posted: April 02, 2012, 01:20:38 pm
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Offline BerG

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God can suck my hugely masculine, perfectly formed, cancer and disease immune penis.

Reply #7926 Posted: April 02, 2012, 01:22:42 pm

Offline Who_ate_my_rice

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Quote from: BerG;1478223
God can suck my hugely masculine, perfectly formed, cancer and disease immune penis.

why do you feel this way BerGinator?

Reply #7927 Posted: April 02, 2012, 01:24:18 pm
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Offline dirtyape

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Quote from: Who_ate_my_rice;1478197
Sickness doesn't come from him.  Its the sin of man who brought sickness.   Gods intention was that no one ever got sick.
Cancer is sin? So sin mutates our cells and prevents our leukocytes from destroying them? Is that just cancer or all diseases? Did god not provide the framework for such to occur? And considering "god" is omniscient and able to see the future presumably then that would mean god knew damn well what would happen. By that definition any creation was flawed by his design and intent therefore disease and sin itself is but an expression of his will. I therefore find your postulate that gods intention was for no one to ever get sick is fallacious and contrary to observation.

I presume you are talking about Yahweh here, i'm ignostic so you'll have to give me some criteria before i can discuss your particular deity.

Sorry if I offend, I tend to be frank on such matters.

Quote from: Who_ate_my_rice;1478197
hahaha  what perks do you get from your job?   Is there anything you benefit from the job you do?
Personally the standard things like money, lifesytle, but we also provide services to a large number of customers including health care. But I feel like you are leading me into something here...

Reply #7928 Posted: April 02, 2012, 01:25:53 pm
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Offline Black Heart

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Which bible? There are too many to choose from. Why didn't god invent and share reading/writing thousands of years earlier to save all those generations of souls? Is it because he is a cruel and evil entity wanting to claim and entrap my soul, and only total hatred and denouncement of him can save my soul and set it free? You've already admitted your a tool of god so I will need you to prove your god isn't evil.

Reply #7929 Posted: April 02, 2012, 01:26:32 pm

Offline BerG

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Its a test.

Surely after such outbursts, I will be punished with cancer and disease.

Reply #7930 Posted: April 02, 2012, 01:29:32 pm

Offline Black Heart

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Gods a trecherous and deplorable character. Read about Abrahams test? Punishing you would not achieve his goal, infact it would only make your soul harder to imprison.

Reply #7931 Posted: April 02, 2012, 01:45:11 pm

Offline Who_ate_my_rice

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Quote from: dirtyape;1478225
Cancer is sin? So sin mutates our cells and prevents our leukocytes from destroying them? Is that just cancer or all diseases? Did god not provide the framework for such to occur? And considering "god" is omniscient and able to see the future presumably then that would mean god knew damn well what would happen. By that definition any creation was flawed by his design and intent therefore disease and sin itself is but an expression of his will. I therefore find your postulate that gods intention was for no one to ever get sick is fallacious and contrary to observation.

I presume you are talking about Yahweh here, i'm ignostic so you'll have to give me some criteria before i can discuss your particular deity.

Sorry if I offend, I tend to be frank on such matters.


I don't get offended when it comes to beliefs.  For instance you guys saying what i believe in is wrong doesn't offend me in the slightest.   Forcing a belief factor down someones throat whether it be Christianity, Atheism, Islam, of Hinduism offends me.  Someone insulting a friend of mine offends me.  but a debate amoungst peers would never offend me.

Sickness is not sin.  Sickness has come about because of sin.  If you read Genesis you'll see what i mean.  We're suppose to live soooo much longer than what we live now.  But even if you didn't get cancer or get ill your telomeres don't stop shortening and you'll end up with old age illnesses as a result.  Interesting thing if you try to stop the telomeres from shortening you'll end up with tumours :0

and i see what you're saying by the whole, Adam was set up to sin argument, i hear that a lot.  

I may be self employed but i still gotta do some work so i'll post this here instead  http://www.amazingfacts.org/radio/bible-answers-live-question-archive/ctl/playmedia/mid/731/mdid/2395.aspx

Quote from: Black Heart;1478226
Which bible? There are too many to choose from. Why didn't god invent and share reading/writing thousands of years earlier to save all those generations of souls? Is it because he is a cruel and evil entity wanting to claim and entrap my soul, and only total hatred and denouncement of him can save my soul and set it free? You've already admitted your a tool of god so I will need you to prove your god isn't evil.


talked about this before many pages back.  Can't be bothered to type it all out again :P  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:12-15&version=NIV  copy pasta

Quote
Romans 2:12-15
New International Version (NIV)
 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)


You think of me a tool for God?  Thats a great compliment thanks :D   Great to see im portraying an image as a servant for Christ :)  

What makes you think God is evil?
 
Quote from: BerG;1478227
Its a test.

Surely after such outbursts, I will be punished with cancer and disease.


Nope

Reply #7932 Posted: April 02, 2012, 02:27:10 pm
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Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: Who_ate_my_rice;1478241
I don't get offended when it comes to beliefs.  For instance you guys saying what i believe in is wrong doesn't offend me in the slightest.   Forcing a belief factor down someones throat whether it be Christianity, Atheism, Islam, of Hinduism offends me.
Atheism is never forced.

Atheism is what is. Atheism is the frame into which you place a canvas upon which you paint religion.

Reply #7933 Posted: April 02, 2012, 02:38:15 pm
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Offline pablo d

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Atheism is a lack of a belief.

STOP FORCING YOUR LACK OF BELIEF ON ME

Reply #7934 Posted: April 02, 2012, 02:55:44 pm

Offline Retardobot

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I find it weird that you discuss the teachings in the bible to be true and it's legitimacy by saying "read the bible and you'll understand".

No. You should be able to defend it without constantly referring us to bible passages.

Reply #7935 Posted: April 02, 2012, 03:08:06 pm



Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: pablo d;1478246
Atheism is a lack of a belief.

STOP FORCING YOUR LACK OF BELIEF ON ME

Arguing about religion is as trivial as arguing about which shade of purple the sky is.

"But the sky is blue!" I say.

"Well, if you put these God-Coloured-Glasses on ..."


"No thanks."

Reply #7936 Posted: April 02, 2012, 03:42:51 pm
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Offline Who_ate_my_rice

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Quote from: RetardoBot;1478247
I find it weird that you discuss the teachings in the bible to be true and it's legitimacy by saying "read the bible and you'll understand".

No. You should be able to defend it without constantly referring us to bible passages.

LOL wut?   Are you thinking about what you're typing?  Or are you just replying for the sake of replying :P

My word alone has no weight.  Its the Word of God that has weight.    If i'm not constantly pulling from the bible and using that as my anchor then i'm pulling on the ideas of man and i'll be in the wrong :)  When you are being schooled don't you refer to the text book, doesn't the teacher refer to the text book?

Quote from: Tiwaking!;1478253
Arguing about religion is as trivial as arguing about which shade of purple the sky is.

"But the sky is blue!" I say.

"Well, if you put these God-Coloured-Glasses on ..."


"No thanks."

LOL i love this bro!!    Oh and about your opinion about atheism is never forced.  I'd disagree as i've had people trying to force it on me :P   Just like i've had Mormons trying to force the book of Mormon on me o__o;;

Reply #7937 Posted: April 02, 2012, 04:16:43 pm
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Offline pablo d

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Quote from: Who_ate_my_rice;1478263

My word alone has no weight.  Its the Word of God that has weight.    If i'm not constantly pulling from the bible and using that as my anchor then i'm pulling on the ideas of man and i'll be in the wrong :)  When you are being schooled don't you refer to the text book, doesn't the teacher refer to the text book?

I'm sure this is going to blow your world apart so apologies in advance, but if you keep referring to the bible to back up the word of the bible, it's called Circular Reasoning and it's a logical fallacy, or "wrong" as the higher primates sometimes like to call it.

Reply #7938 Posted: April 02, 2012, 04:21:29 pm

Offline Who_ate_my_rice

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ah~ you're asking how do i know the bible is true?  That comes down to faith :)   If i was an atheist i'd obviously believe that the bible was just a bunch of stories and continue to life my life very differently to the way im living now.  

Now if you're asking me to back up my faith! I'll refer to the word of God AND my testimony as what God has done for me and other people :)

I found this link which is interesting.  i don't have to much time to type out my answer so have a look at this :)  http://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/the_study_of_god/how_do_we_know_the_bible_is_true.aspx

ofcourse you don't HAVE to if you don't want to :P

Reply #7939 Posted: April 02, 2012, 04:34:20 pm
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Offline Tiwaking!

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Quote from: pablo d;1478265
I'm sure this is going to blow your world apart so apologies in advance, but if you keep referring to the bible to back up the word of the bible, it's called Circular Reasoning and it's a logical fallacy, or "wrong" as the higher primates sometimes like to call it.

I cant believe SoldierInGodsArmy got suspended back in 2009. Ridiculous. They guy was a beacon unto others.


JESUS JESUS JESUS!

Reply #7940 Posted: April 02, 2012, 04:39:41 pm
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Offline Retardobot

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Quote from: Who_ate_my_rice;1478263
LOL wut?   Are you thinking about what you're typing?  Or are you just replying for the sake of replying :P

Quote from: Who_ate_my_rice;1478222
you'd have a better understanding of where i'm coming from if you read the Bible.

Quote from: Who_ate_my_rice;1478241
If you read Genesis you'll see what i mean.

That is weak. Seriously weak. If you can't front up with what you're trying to debate/discuss then don't palm people off by dropping "go read the bible, it's all in there". A teacher will refer to a text book for answers. Referring to a passage or some anecdotal evidence is not an answer, it's an attempt at circular reasoning.

IT'S TRUE BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO AND BECAUSE IT HAPPENED TO MY DAD.

Reply #7941 Posted: April 02, 2012, 04:40:00 pm



Offline dirtyape

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Quote from: Who_ate_my_rice;1478263
My word alone has no weight.  Its the Word of God that has weight.   If i'm not constantly pulling from the bible and using that as my anchor then i'm pulling on the ideas of man and i'll be in the wrong :)  When you are being schooled don't you refer to the text book, doesn't the teacher refer to the text book?

Does it??? Says who??? Do know who wrote it? When, why, and the history leading up to it's creation? And who told you it was a text book? Did you not question any of this before you committed to belief? Chances are you were a indoctrinated early in life, yes?

These are rhetorical, unless you care to answer.

And hang on - if you are saying the ideas of man is wrong then do you believe then that the bible literally true? As a young earth creationist? Do you think the bible inerrant? If so which copy? The one untouched by man or the sin of man?? Which one is that???

Quote from: Who_ate_my_rice;1478263
LOL i love this bro!!    Oh and about your opinion about atheism is never forced.  I'd disagree as i've had people trying to force it on me :P   Just like i've had Mormons trying to force the book of Mormon on me o__o;;

I have to agree, we are all essentially forcing atheism at this very moment by arguing against your ideas. Atheists can be a bit hypocritical like that. It would be naive to think that Atheists do not argue their world view and try to promote it. In fact I would even go as far to say that atheists are even worse, for they tend to say things like "Your god can suck my cock" or "your god is a fucken idiot" and other forms of abuse, not really wanting to participate in a free exchange of ideas but rather wanting to dominate it.

Reply #7942 Posted: April 02, 2012, 04:42:43 pm
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Offline Retardobot

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I wish Mormons would force their magic underpants on me.

I want to fly and ride unicorns.

Reply #7943 Posted: April 02, 2012, 04:44:23 pm



Offline Black Heart

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Quote from: Who_ate_my_rice;1478241
Sickness is not sin.  Sickness has come about because of sin.  If you read Genesis you'll see what i mean.  We're suppose to live soooo much longer than what we live now.  But even if you didn't get cancer or get ill your telomeres don't stop shortening and you'll end up with old age illnesses as a result.  Interesting thing if you try to stop the telomeres from shortening you'll end up with tumours :0

and i see what you're saying by the whole, Adam was set up to sin argument, i hear that a lot.  

I may be self employed but i still gotta do some work so i'll post this here instead  http://www.amazingfacts.org/radio/bible-answers-live-question-archive/ctl/playmedia/mid/731/mdid/2395.aspx



talked about this before many pages back.  Can't be bothered to type it all out again :P  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:12-15&version=NIV  copy pasta



You think of me a tool for God?  Thats a great compliment thanks :D   Great to see im portraying an image as a servant for Christ :)  

What makes you think God is evil?
 


Nope

God created evil. Some of gods angels turned out evil, god created hell before the garden of eden, and humans. If sickness is caused by sin, then why do all forms of life get sickness and disease? Not just humans.

Why are fruit trees stricken with blight? Why are honey bees susceptible veroa, kiwifruit PSA ? gods will ?

Also whats this age delusion you have? We live longer now (in the western world anyway) than ever before, thanks to science and medicine. And guess what science proves our aging is consistant with other similar mamals, is god punishing them with sickness and short lives too ?
Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 06:52:56 pm by Black Heart

Reply #7944 Posted: April 02, 2012, 06:48:29 pm

Offline Tiwaking!

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Interesting.

I just learned that drugs used to counteract depression prevent people from 'communing or hearing god'.


I will keep this knowledge always.

Reply #7945 Posted: April 02, 2012, 07:39:02 pm
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Offline Who_ate_my_rice

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lol retardo first quote about you posting for the sake of posting is what i feel you do :P

Second quote was because i'm talking about something that Black Heart considers completely nonsensical to him.   I see there being a divine hand involved in my parents medical care.  With drugs newly being subsidised, tests getting fast tracked, the doctors visiting my mum at home even though they don't have to :)   The fact that i was able to be born in New Zealand and my parents coming over here from Fiji!   we'd be living a completely different life.  Infact i don't think my mum would have made the 7 years in Fiji.  Defiantly Gods grace we live in such a wonderful country that is New Zealand.  

Third quote was referencing to the fall of man and where i get my view on sin and why disease is not sin.  

Love you bro!

In fact i could have answered these questions a lot clearer but between taking returns for the weekends hires and showing people new product on the computer i wasn't able to give this my full attention.  my fault :)

Quote from: dirtyape;1478273
Does it??? Says who??? Do know who wrote it? When, why, and the history leading up to it's creation? And who told you it was a text book? Did you not question any of this before you committed to belief? Chances are you were a indoctrinated early in life, yes?

These are rhetorical, unless you care to answer.


I care to answer!  This is great :D   I haven't done this sort of study in ages. As soon as i finish work around 9pm or earlier i go home and play games coz im so knackered from work so this has been fun.  
I wasn't indoctrinated early in life to Christianity.  I grew up as a Hindu.  Mum was a Hindu brother and father were atheists.  Dad left home when the bro and i were very young. When i was around 16 i thought hey i'll give my life to Christ!  My life just cleaned up so much.  All the crap people in my life fell away.  I started to do better in school, and the teachers noticed so much of a change they let me take part in the school radio station :D   No more trips to the councillor, no more detentions, no more 1 hour long lectures in the principles office everyweek lol.  I was the class clown.  Friend of mine invited me to a church, it was a mormon church.  Back then i didnt realise what the difference was but i started to look into what they were teaching and it sounded ok to me.  When i was about to be baptised in their church my father who was atheist at the time came to the church and said.  NO WAY!  LOOK AT WHAT THESE PEOPLE BELIEVE.  Then i realised you just cant follow a path blindly.  I needed to exam everything.  When i hit 20 i made a serious commitment to Christ.   There was so much going on i'd defiantly be a different person if it wasn't for my faith.

The fact is personally i can't deny God exists.  Just with everything that's happened there's no doubt in my mind that he does.  I'm way past the idea that life is a big accident and that life is the state of self-perpetuation for no other purpose than to exist.  I believe we've been created for fellowship with God.   He wants a relationship with us so he can bless us.  Bless us so much it spills over to people around us and blesses them :D


Quote
And hang on - if you are saying the ideas of man is wrong then do you believe then that the bible literally true? As a young earth creationist? Do you think the bible inerrant? If so which copy? The one untouched by man or the sin of man?? Which one is that???


Again im at fault here for not being clearer.  Also a pastor or someone with more knowledge in theology could correct me here as im still learning.  The ideas aren't always wrong.  For instance a persons Testimony is a very powerful thing.  for example about how someone raised someone from the dead, healed a skin ball from inside a girls ear or how they found Christ.   Its important when dealing with the FAITH that the final authority is the world of God and/or God Himself. It comes down to my faith that the Bible is the word of God.   If i were to defend certain accounts in the bible, I need other sources that SUPPORT the truth of the bible if that comes into question.  

I found this cool link about the bible http://www.brianauten.com/Apologetics/trustthescriptures.pdf   I also found a few youtube videos about this too :D

this is interesting.  going to read this later.
Quote
If one believed in merely the teachings of a person, then their belief could continue even if it turns out that the supposed author of those teachings didn’t exist. For example, about 25,000 people are members of the Church of Scientology [1] despite the fact the religion has been exposed as a fraud. The founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard, has been quoted as saying, “Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion. [2]”

http://knowitstrue.com/?p=1354


Its true that you can not just say, "well the bible tells me so!"   This is how i'm able to have a Debate with Jehovahs witnesses and Mormons about their belief.  I'm able to find material outside that supports the bible about my argument.

When you guys talk about someone who's never heard about Jesus, and ask if they die do they immediately go to Hell. It was relevant for me to copy paste that scripture from Romans because this involves a belief.  I can't find a non biblical answer for this because i wasn't able to find one.

If you were to ask me why do you believe the world is flat. I'd reply, i don't believe its flat because of the varying star constellations in the sky, we can see further the higher you get and Insert link for my source    I wouldn't quote from Isiah etc.

Quote

I have to agree, we are all essentially forcing atheism at this very moment by arguing against your ideas. Atheists can be a bit hypocritical like that. It would be naive to think that Atheists do not argue their world view and try to promote it. In fact I would even go as far to say that atheists are even worse, for they tend to say things like "Your god can suck my $#@!" or "your god is a $#@!en idiot" and other forms of abuse, not really wanting to participate in a free exchange of ideas but rather wanting to dominate it.



Thanks Dirty Ape i appreciate this exchange of ideas.  I also appreciate you being frank with your questions.  always good to think outside the box because there will be things about the bible you would have thought about but i never would have thought to!  I think people get like that because they think im trying to convert them.  but thats not my intention and i apologise if it seems like that :)

Im half asleep but i think im going to play bf3 with the Vectors.  If i've missed anythign out or i've typed anythign stupid feel free to make fun of me ☜(゚ヮ゚☜)

Reply #7946 Posted: April 02, 2012, 08:47:54 pm
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Offline Retardobot

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Quote from: Who_ate_my_rice;1478315
lol retardo first quote about you posting for the sake of posting is what i feel you do :P

That's fine, I have no problem with that.

Just know that every time you post, I feel like I am reading a post from this guy:
Quote from: *~t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m~*
hi every1 im new!!!!!!! *holds up spork* my name is katy but u can call me t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m!!!!!!!! lol...as u can see im very random!!!! thats why i came here, 2 meet random ppl like me ^_^... im 13 years old (im mature 4 my age tho!!) i like 2 watch invader zim w/ my girlfreind (im bi if u dont like it deal w/it) its our favorite tv show!!! bcuz its SOOOO random!!!! shes random 2 of course but i want 2 meet more random ppl =) like they say the more the merrier!!!! lol...neways i hope 2 make alot of freinds here so give me lots of commentses!!!!

DOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--- me bein random again ^_^ hehe...toodles!!!!!

love and waffles, *~t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m~*

Reply #7947 Posted: April 02, 2012, 08:56:20 pm



Offline Black Heart

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who_ate_my_rice needs gods forgiveness for being a dick. if god doesn't exist then how could he ever feel good about himself. His character flaws prevent him from being able to accept his state of mind is his only option to make him happy. Not because god exists, but because he's acts like a worthless piece of shit without beleiving some super being forgives him, even though he can't forgive himself. Probably used to hack at games too.

Reply #7948 Posted: April 02, 2012, 10:05:53 pm

Offline dirtyape

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That's a bit harsh and intolerant there BH. You know real or unreal, one still cannot say that belief is a completely bad thing. It is only when it is combined with ignorance or manipulative hands that it becomes so.

Oh, and i'll reply later rice

Reply #7949 Posted: April 02, 2012, 10:19:39 pm
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that they are difficult to verify." - Abraham Lincoln