Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

but that doesn't explain how they found clam shells and other marine life on Mt everest.

That's caused by tectonic plate movement, the land where Mt everest is would have once been under water, then it was pushed up when the Indo-Australian Plate collied with the Eurasian Plate

[Arnifix]

i do, i believe that god created the world, scary not to, and part of his creation (his plan) was evolution.

maybe were still living in the 6th day

You are so eminently sensible I would never have guessed you were religious. Other religious people could learn from your example. St Equity anyone?

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

In the begining there was nothing... From nothing started somthing.. this something (no bigger than a full stop on a page)created enough energy to explode into the univers as we know it... Now the earth cooled over millions of years then it rained for a million more, from the rain water interacting with the rocky earth ceated the "organic soup" from that we eventually came about ... by accident. Now that is the offial big bang theory.. look it up. Now I can't see logic in that.. But you are entitled to believe what you want as do I... Thanks anyway man

Makes sense to me.

[Arnifix]

Thanks mate.. but evolution has been disproven many many time.... but the scientist just come up with an alternative theories.

You speak of logic but how logical is the bigbang theory.. it is:

In the begining there was nothing... From nothing started somthing.. this something (no bigger than a full stop on a page)created enough energy to explode into the univers as we know it... Now the earth cooled over millions of years then it rained for a million more, from the rain water interacting with the rocky earth ceated the "organic soup" from that we eventually came about ... by accident. Now that is the offial big bang theory.. look it up. Now I can't see logic in that.. But you are entitled to believe what you want as do I... Thanks anyway man

Evolution cannot be disproved, as it occurs and has been empirically measured. Theories as to the exact manner in which it occurs does change, but then so do most things.

How logical is a make believe character creating the world and known universe instead?

[Dustow]

Evolution cannot be disproved, as it occurs and has been empirically measured. Theories as to the exact manner in which it occurs does change, but then so do most things.

How logical is a make believe character creating the world and known universe instead?

Read this  http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=21  

see their other links too- they have disproven evolution.. it also answers how the marsupial ended up in austrailia...

[Dustow]

Another one that talks of the flood


http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=77

http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=36

Lets not make this a personal issue. it is just a fun conversation that is quite informative

[DaCollector]

I guess this is a problem of people taking the bible literary, which I know many christens do.

This is my view on the Noah flood, in that time, people only knew of a very small part of the world, as the rest had not been explored yet, so to them, their entire world was only as far as they could see.

So therefore when the flood happened, he presumed the entire world was flooded, as as far as he could see, there was only water, so he would have assumed the entire world was flooded.
As for the ark, it wouldn't need to be that big, as it only had to carry the animals of that area, which wouldn't be that many.

So why have so many different cultures around the world have a story about a great flood that covered the earth.
Also, by Noah taking 1 pair of every kind of animal, it is also possible that he tool young ones , immature, small and needing far less food and also, as none may have been in heat, no agrressiveness.
As someone else has said, insects not only float but could have surely taken a ride on the wreckage from the flood.
Birds could have also used these means while keeping themselves well feed.
Who's to say there weren't dinosaurs around only 500 or less years ago too?
Wtf do u think dragons were? Hell, there are stories from the 1700 in which an Italian (as such) slew a beast called a dragon.
How are fossils formed, really?, how are they formed.
Not but creatures laying down to rot away.

Some very narrow minded views being presented here.

I believe the bible has all the answers to living a decent life in it but then to many people, a decent , well lived life is boring.
Fuck as many chicks or guys as u can, abort several children, steal a few things, live with some one, have children, marry, divorce. etc. etc.
Yep, the std good well lived life these days......

[Tiwaking!]

The earth is flat and is the centre of the universe. Everything rotates around us.

That wasn't a religious view, that was the scientific view of Greek philosophers hundreds of years BC. And by the first century it was generally acknowledged among the learned that the world was round.

Some suffered the ultimate penalty at the hands of the Catholic Church for their beliefs. Giordano Bruno was sentenced to death by the Inquisition and burned alive in February 1600. Certainly in Cena de le Ceneri (1584) Bruno declared his support for the reality of the heliocentric theory and also claimed that the universe is infinite. In this work he also argued that the Holy Scripture was written to teach morals but not to teach astronomy. It is a little difficult to know exactly what he was accused of during his seven year trial. Bruno seems not to have understood himself for when the Inquisition demanded that he retract, he replied that he had nothing to retract and did not understand what he was being asked to retract.

And we are at the center of the 'known' universe, because we can only see the same distance in all directions, so the 'known universe forms a sphere around us with earth at the center.
I doubt the actully universe has a physical center, if it does, i'm pretty sure it would be impossible to find.

To find the center of the universe, wouldnt finding the outside of the universe first be more important? That way you could triangulate the distance to the center. A string is only as long as twice the distance from its middle to one edge.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Who's to say there weren't dinosaurs around only 500 or less years ago too?

Where are their bones?

Wtf do u think dragons were? Hell, there are stories from the 1700 in which an Italian (as such) slew a beast called a dragon.

Dragons are in Lord of the Rings, they eat dwarves.

Lord of the rings was made up, like all stories about dragons.

How are fossils formed, really?, how are they formed.
Not but creatures laying down to rot away.

If they rot away, then no fossils are left. Fossils are formed when an animal gets quickly covered in a layer of silt, sometimes deposited by a flood. The animal is then preserved and becomes fossilsed.

Some very narrow minded views being presented here.

you can talk.

I believe the bible has all the answers to living a decent life.

I agree with you, the bible does contain some good messages on how we should live, but the story about the Tortoise and the Hare teaches a good message too, but we shouldn't believe that a Tortoise and a Hare actully raced each other one day.

[Arnifix]

some muddled hard to understand stuff

Flood mythology. Read up on it. The flooding of river deltas is an annual occurance that brought about the new growing season. Logically, a "great flood" would bring about an excellent growing season. Floods were also a common natural disaster. If you guys had bothered to check the Wikipedia article on flood mythology you'd have notcied that these topics have been covered. Far smarter minds than those found here have worked on these problems before.

There weren't dinosaurs around 500 years ago, because we have farking reams of historical documents from those times. WTF didn't anybody mention the velociraptor opening doors and stealing food from the kitchen?

The bible also teaches that whites are greater than blacks and that homosexuals are unnatural. Interestingly enough, a recent study has shown that the vast majority of the animal kingdom take part in homosexual acts. 1 in 5 male sheep are gay. Some penguins will bond in male-male pairs, fuck a female penguin and then drive her away after she's laid the egg to raise it with their male mate.

The Bible is an interesting text that I should really get around to reading. But sadly, Lord of the Rings is taking up my fiction book inventory slot atm.

EDIT: SM, you speak of LotR too. Gay secks?

[Dustow]

Flood mythology. Read up on it. The flooding of river deltas is an annual occurance that brought about the new growing season. Logically, a "great flood" would bring about an excellent growing season. Floods were also a common natural disaster. If you guys had bothered to check the Wikipedia article on flood mythology you'd have notcied that these topics have been covered. Far smarter minds than those found here have worked on these problems before.

There weren't dinosaurs around 500 years ago, because we have farking reams of historical documents from those times. WTF didn't anybody mention the velociraptor opening doors and stealing food from the kitchen?

The bible also teaches that whites are greater than blacks and that homosexuals are unnatural. Interestingly enough, a recent study has shown that the vast majority of the animal kingdom take part in homosexual acts. 1 in 5 male sheep are gay. Some penguins will bond in male-male pairs, fuck a female penguin and then drive her away after she's laid the egg to raise it with their male mate.

The Bible is an interesting text that I should really get around to reading. But sadly, Lord of the Rings is taking up my fiction book inventory slot atm.

EDIT: SM, you speak of LotR too. Gay secks?

Whow whow whow.

No where in the bible does it say whites are better than black... the text the KKK and other supremises use is when the Cananites (I think and of darker skinned people) where banished to serve the others.. it was a punishment of the times... in fact I would submit that there were no whites at that time.. they were jewish or arabic.... Jesus said, all people were created equal in the image of god... No matter what race.  In relation to homosexuality yes it does say it's unnatual and I agree it is BUT they are no less of a human being loved by god than anyone else.. I think if you poll what people genually thought was a natual relationship most people would say male and female....

I apreciate you quoted the bible (which you say you havn't read) so lets make sure we don't take things out of context or make stuff up.  


Now I read the link and all it gives are Theories and hearsay and personal opinion.. no more relevent than more theories....

I say: the bla bla bla this is how it happened
Your link says: yeah but it COULD have happened this way.

Like I said previously anything is possisble even space aliens... and I suppose playing devils advokate is one we we as humnas debate and express their personal opinions.

But saying  What I say is total wrong and that you are right because someone in a website is playing devils advocate isn't really looking at it objectively.  What I've tried to do is respect your view and produce some sort of evidence to support my view... you are saying I'm wrong but not producing anything but devil's advocate theories to back it up.

Eg: I could say, "The evidence is, rain water comes from the evaporation of sea/lake water which when cooled condences into rain"

You say: But it cold also come from people in aeroplanes urinated on all of us" (Abit extreme but u get he idea)

Give me some proff that I can examine instead of people's throerys

Thanks man

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

EDIT: SM, you speak of LotR too. Gay secks?

Can we dress up like hobbits?

[Arnifix]

Can we dress up like hobbits?

Sure. And in response to the original question, why not Frodo brought three.

And when I quote stuff, I read it to make sure I'm not taking it out of context. I can't find the bit I was reading, but it's frequently used.

[private_hell]

can i be the barman at the prancing pony - "it comes in pints"

[Arnifix]

can i be the barman at the prancing pony - "it comes in pints"

I now rename you, Barliman. On that note, I should really start drinking again!

[Dustow]

Sure. And in response to the original question, why not Frodo brought three.

And when I quote stuff, I read it to make sure I'm not taking it out of context. I can't find the bit I was reading, but it's frequently used.

But you said you havn't read the bible??? i could be wrong.

read my txt above, i've added stuff

[Tiwaking!]

Thanks mate.. but evolution has been disproven many many time.... but the scientist just come up with an alternative theories ie: the horse theory, the archeological time line+ many many more, I'll have to look up if you want more.

...and religions have been disproven many many times too! The Millerites, Mormons, Catholics, Buddhists(North and South, Zen, etc), Egyptian/Greek/Roman. Each time this occurs a new theory is put forth and is followed, otherwise known as "COGNITIVE DISSIDENCE"

Just because scientific ideas change due to new evidence doesnt mean it is any less relevant. I think the key point to this whole argument is: Religion vs Science: Who would win? And the answer is easy. Science! Throw all the religionists(Including those Scientology bastards) off onto another planet and have another planet of scientific-centric people. We all know who's going to 'win': The Scientists. The Religious people would wipe themselves out in less than a decade. Probably the Shi'a and Sunni first.

I apreciate you quoted the bible (which you say you havn't read) so lets make sure we don't take things out of context or make stuff up. Thanks man

Why arent we allowed to take things out of context?? Religions have been doing it for centuries and just NOW you want to put the brakes on it? The Jehovahs Witness cult claims the bible forbids blood transfusions, Muslims refuse to eat pork, Hindus consider cows sacred. Do these sound like sensible rules to you, or theologically inspired mass-hysteria?

oh and rofl @ Hobbs was fond of his dram

[DooleysMagic]

Dustow you might want to think about the fact that the Big bang theory has many variations such as that of infinite. We COULD be living in a universe that is just in one massive cycle BANG grow,evolve,grow,evolve universe expands implodes big bang again over and over again. I'm not saying this is true but you are telling people to be open minded while you are blissfully ignoring your own advice. Sure God could exist but s/he/it/they also might not.

[Dustow]

Dustow you might want to think about the fact that the Big bang theory has many variations such as that of infinite. We COULD be living in a universe that is just in one massive cycle BANG grow,evolve,grow,evolve universe expands implodes big bang again over and over again. I'm not saying this is true but you are telling people to be open minded while you are blissfully ignoring your own advice. Sure God could exist but s/he/it/they also might not.

thanks man... I certainly do have an open mind... show me some evidence and I'll certainly look at.. but whats been happening is.. I put up an idea with proff and people turn arojnd and offer alternative ways that it could have happend without any evidence, only theories etc,...  with the big bang theory (there is only one theory on how it came to bang) I can't fatherm how something accidently came out of nothing???

Never mind.. it's been fun.. I appreciate the comments.. take care and I hope you don't think less of me because of my view.... If you have questions PM me.. I will answer.

[Arnifix]

oh and rofl @ Hobbs was fond of his dram

And rene descartes was a drunken fart,
I drink therefore I am!

Oh and btw, Headley Lammar!

[DooleysMagic]

thanks man... I certainly do have an open mind... show me some evidence and I'll certainly look at.

There is no solid evidence that whatever happened this way or that I could provide evidence such as the link between our(humans) DNA and Orangotangs but that still doesn't prove that there was a big bang.

the big bang theory (there is only one theory on how it came to bang) I can't fatherm how something accidently came out of nothing???

If you read my post I said that a different version is that of infinite, it didn't come from nothing it doesn't have a start nor does it have a finish it just is. Sure that is hard to believe but so is the Bible when taken literally

I hope you don't think less of me because of my view.... If you have questions PM me.. I will answer

If you read my other post you would now that I used to go to a Catholic college and was taught r.e there I know this doesn't mean I'm an expert but I do know about both sides of the story.

[Equity]

You are so eminently sensible I would never have guessed you were religious. Other religious people could learn from your example. St Equity anyone?

heh i think your taking the piss. im not religious but i have to think theres something more for me to be able comprehend/make sense of the world around us etc etc. im not as knowlegable on the subject as many of you here, and it definately makes for good reading on the account. i find it hard to just ignore evolution or say its a myth so i try to mix it all in one haha as best i can....that was a summary of what i reckon is true.

dustov your posts have made for good reading, dont give up, i like it how this thread hasnt turned into a flame or a huge dum argument. people are giving good posts......

[DooleysMagic]

heh i think your taking the piss. im not religious but i have to think theres something more for me to be able comprehend/make sense of the world around us etc etc. im not as knowlegable on the subject as many of you here, and it definately makes for good reading on the account. i find it hard to just ignore evolution or say its a myth so i try to mix it all in one haha as best i can....that was a summary of what i reckon is true.

I'm pretty much the opposite and try to just worry about the present and future rather than how I came to be. I recently came to the conclusion that the purpose of life was to survive and thats that. But as for big bangs and God/s I really don't know what to believe so I just like to sit on the fence and/or argue for both sides.

[Equity]

heh i dont care where ive been that much, it dont wiegh on my mind...but sometimes the question is raised...i am into history and stuff so i guess thats where my need for an answer im happy with has come

[Boob Johnson]

no proof?
Noahs ark is not humanly possible to  maintain all the livestock, let alone collect every animal. theres nothing to suggest a boat that large was ever built outside of the bible.

Oh really? Heard of mount Ararat in Turkey? People have climded it and have found what they believe to be "the ark".