Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Quote from: ccfc;335502
How does religion explain dinosaurs?


Many people are religious and believe in evolution.

Reply #975 Posted: February 12, 2007, 03:16:57 pm

Offline Black Heart

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;335495
Perhaps the real culprit here is political correctness?


No its simply the tool. Religious groups are the ones using that tool.

Reply #976 Posted: February 12, 2007, 03:23:28 pm

Offline ccfc

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I'll rephrase that. The "holy bible", most read religious script in the western world, does not include dinosaurs. Does anyone know why there is no mention of dinosaurs?

Reply #977 Posted: February 12, 2007, 03:23:29 pm

Offline Black Heart

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;335495
You tell me - you're the one trying to take it from religious groups.
Where did I do that? I suggested they not be listened too. Sure it would be easier to do if they shut up. But I nowhere insist that they do that.

You are aware of the seperation of religion and state, constitutionally? and that its a state run park.

Reply #978 Posted: February 12, 2007, 03:25:04 pm

Offline Black Heart

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Quote from: ccfc;335522
I'll rephrase that. The "holy bible", most read religious script in the western world, does not include dinosaurs. Does anyone know why there is no mention of dinosaurs?


I'm pretty sure it doesn't mention witches and sacrifices, yet hannibal claims to know all about it presumably from the bible. Oh and what is a leviathan ? the bible mentions them, and the rest is open to interpretation.

Reply #979 Posted: February 12, 2007, 03:31:34 pm

Offline ccfc

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It seems like the leviathan is a biblical sea creature, but it could be a dinosaur... seems pretty weird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan

Reply #980 Posted: February 12, 2007, 03:39:47 pm

Offline Black Heart

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good then you'll find Behemoth aswell :D

Reply #981 Posted: February 12, 2007, 03:43:27 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Another point to remember is that dinosaurs may not have been mentioned because they weren't important to the biblical stories? Personally, I believe in an old earth, but there is something to be said for those details having been left out due to their being inconsequential to the story. Just like how it says "wine" not "red wine" or "white wine" (the colour of wine was unimportant).

Reply #982 Posted: February 12, 2007, 04:08:18 pm

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Quote from: ccfc;335522
I'll rephrase that. The "holy bible", most read religious script in the western world, does not include dinosaurs. Does anyone know why there is no mention of dinosaurs?


Because dinosaurs didn't exist when the bible was written.

Why does it have to include dinosaurs anyway?

Reply #983 Posted: February 12, 2007, 04:19:21 pm

Offline Jack_L

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the tuatara existed, but one bit Mary on the arse and Jesus did nothing about it, so Mary looked at him and yelled JESUS....... DONT JUST STAND THERE

and so no one likes to admit Jesus was a useless fuk and hence we dont talk about dinasaurs in christianity. [/fullstop]

Reply #984 Posted: February 12, 2007, 04:30:04 pm
People who say that stats don\'t matter are 98% more likely to tell you that size isn\'t important.

Guess what...

Offline ccfc

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Quote from: Spacemonkey;335585
Because dinosaurs didn't exist when the bible was written.

Why does it have to include dinosaurs anyway?


So Dinosaurs were created after the bible?

Reply #985 Posted: February 12, 2007, 04:59:52 pm

Offline Black Heart

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The bible does nothing to explain most of human history, let alone touch on what existed here before people. Thats not what its about. Amusingly that is what some people want it to be about.

Reply #986 Posted: February 12, 2007, 05:09:12 pm

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Quote from: ccfc;335668
So Dinosaurs were created after the bible?

No.

The bible was only written in the last 4000 years, dinosaurs were alive millions of years ago.

Reply #987 Posted: February 12, 2007, 05:51:23 pm

Offline Arnifix

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Quote from: Hannibal4life;335414
Christ mass = christmas = 1 (originally dec 25 was chosen as the date to celebrate Jesus' birth as the roman empire held a pagan festival on the same day.

Easter is a recognition of the event in which Jesus died and then rose three days later. The egg was a pagan symbol that represented new life, and hence why it was adopted to represent the event surrounding Easter.

And i never said Hannukkah was a Christian festival actually. My point remains: Public holidays established as a result of "religion" remains 4 as does score. -1 for limited "scientific" counter arguement though.


So... despite the fact that all these Christian events were placed deliberately on, or very close to significant dates in the solar calender, specifically the solstice and equinox events, you still think that they are primarily christian festivals?

Makes you wonder how popular Christianity would have been if it hadn't been introduced as part of a pre-established holiday.

Reply #988 Posted: February 12, 2007, 07:47:09 pm

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Guess what everybody...

It's Darwin Day!

198 years since he was born.

What does that have to do with this thread?

this: http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_darwin_day_070208.html

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Day

Reply #989 Posted: February 12, 2007, 07:50:12 pm

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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oh and yesterday was Evolution Sunday

 
Quote
On 11 February 2007 hundreds of congregations from all portions of the country and a host of denominations will come together to discuss the compatibility of religion and science.   For far too long, strident voices, in the name of Christianity, have been claiming that people must choose between religion and modern science.  More than 10,000 Christian clergy have already signed The Clergy Letter demonstrating that this is a false dichotomy.  Now, on the 198th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin, many of these leaders will bring this message to their congregations through sermons and/or discussion groups.  Together, participating religious leaders will be making the statement that religion and science are not adversaries.  And, together, they will be elevating the quality of the national debate on this topic.


http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/rel_evol_sun2007.htm

Quote
We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth.


http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/religion_science_collaboration.htm

See, science and religion can co-exist.

Reply #990 Posted: February 12, 2007, 07:53:12 pm

Offline Arnifix

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Quote from: Spacemonkey;335984
oh and yesterday was Evolution Sunday

http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/rel_evol_sun2007.htm


Good to see the less moronic religious people actually doing something about these whackjobs.

Reply #991 Posted: February 12, 2007, 07:56:19 pm

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline Charlie C

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It's been an interesting read in this thread, but I couldn't read it all, 'twas making me crosseyed.

The first and most fundamental question anyone, Christian or not, should ask themselves is:
How the fuck would I know? I'm a tiny speck on a small planet which itself is atomically small in relation to the known universe.

To propose that there is no creator is incredibly arrogant, because we are simply not capable of comprehending something so eternal and so vast.  To claim that a creator doesn't exist because evil does is an oxymoron of the first degree, and to suggest that a creator as vast at the one who could have created our universe should give a fuck what any of us think is just me me me me, which is about the level most human beings settle at anyway.  

We live in a universe of decay - we age and die like everything around us, so we have no understanding of eternity, of something that always existed and always will.

Science can't prove that it's all about evolution, and the Bible can't prove it's all about creation.  I've heard people say for years that of course there's evolution!  God prefers to do things the natural way!  See sentence 2 above.

Science is about facts as they are known.  Science inevitably gets it wrong, but you can only go with what you know at the time.  Needs constant effort to learn new things, to better understand what the hell's going on around here

Christianity is about faith, the opposite of science.  People of faith get it wrong too (like the guy who drowned believing he could walk on water).  Need constant reminders that their God, not them, is in charge.  :sunnies:

Reply #992 Posted: February 12, 2007, 09:37:23 pm
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Offline Black Heart

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if its arrogant to say theres no creator, then the arrogance of proclaiming there is one and you know him well, is hugely beyond that.

besides this thread isn't about god. itsa bout tiny religious groups controlling government sectors and information thats available to the public.

Reply #993 Posted: February 12, 2007, 11:33:45 pm

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Quote from: Black Heart;336296
besides this thread isn't about god. itsa bout tiny religious groups controlling government sectors and information thats available to the public.


I think it's more about the stupid American government, they mix up their politics and religion, thats where the problem is, they should be kept separate.

Reply #994 Posted: February 13, 2007, 08:07:47 am

Offline Arnifix

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Quote from: Spacemonkey;336481
I think it's more about the stupid American government, they mix up their politics and religion, thats where the problem is, they should be kept separate.


100% agree. That said, I think religion should be kept seperate from pretty much everything.

Reply #995 Posted: February 13, 2007, 08:17:18 am

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline Black Heart

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Quote from: Spacemonkey;336481
I think it's more about the stupid American government, they mix up their politics and religion, thats where the problem is, they should be kept separate.


i agree, as per their constitution.

Reply #996 Posted: February 13, 2007, 10:26:04 am

Offline Xt1ncT

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Quote from: Spacemonkey;335585
Because dinosaurs didn't exist when the bible was written.
No, they existed millions of years before the bible was written.
Quote from: Spacemonkey;335585
Why does it have to include dinosaurs anyway?
It doesn't have to mention them.

But, doesn't it say the whole 7 days thing? And the whole Garden of Eden thing with Adam and Eve. So, if the bible is saying that God created the Earth, what happened with the dinosaurs?

Reply #997 Posted: February 13, 2007, 10:56:22 am

Offline enile8

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I like these bill hicks quotes:
   
"Fundamentalist Christianity. Fascinating. These people actually believe the world is 12 thousand years old. Swear to God! Based on what? I asked them. "Well, we looked at all the people in the Bible, and we added them up all the way back to Adam and Eve, their ages – 12 thousand years." Well, how fucking scientific! Okay. I didn't know that you'd gone to so much trouble there. That's good.

      You believe the world's 12 thousand years old? "That's right." Okay, I got one word to ask you. A one word question. Ready? "Uh-uh." Dinosaurs.

      You know, the world's 12 thousand years old and dinosaurs existed, and they existed in that time … you'd think it would have been mentioned in the fucking Bible at some point. "And lo, Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus … with a splinter in his paw. And O, the disciples did run a-shrieking: 'What a big fucking lizard, Lord!' But Jesus was unafraid, and he took the splinter from the brontosaurus's paw, and the big lizard became his friend. And Jesus sent him to Scotland where he lived in a loch for O, so many years, inviting thousands of American tourists to bring their fat fucking families and their fat dollar bills. And O, Scotland did praise the Lord: 'Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord.'"

"God put [dinosaur fossils] here to test our faith!"... I think God put you here to test my faith, dude.
:[On dinosaur fossils and their relationship to creationism]


"Seriously, does it bother anyone else that God might be fuckin' with our heads?! [Mimes digging] "Ho ho ho! We'll see who believes in me now!"

"You ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved?"

"A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back, he ever wants to see a fucking cross? Kind of like going up to Jackie Onassis with a rifle pendant on, you know."

Reply #998 Posted: February 13, 2007, 02:09:14 pm

Offline Apostrophe Spacemonkey

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Why the hell does everyone keep going on about dinosaurs?

Reply #999 Posted: February 13, 2007, 02:28:03 pm