Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I think what BH means is that if you placed a 6 sided die in the box which had 5 sides marked with a 1 and one side marked with a 2 then you could say that you have a 83% chance of having a 1 on the die if you ever observe it. Which is true.

But knowing the dice has 5 sides marked with a 1 is evidence.

That video explained, in teams of Schrödinger cat, and also with the existence of God, that there is no evidence that one outcome is more likely then the other.

[Black Heart]

its about probability not possibility. you can't say it's not important which god it is either. when you're religious you tend to choose one. that choice can either be right or wrong, but by making that choice the probability of being correct is less, Even if you're right about there being a god, theres a chance that every religion is wrong, or just one is right. they can't all be right. you got more chance of being wrong.

Aethiest 50/50 chance
religious person has nowhere near that chance of being right.

Do you like to gamble, with your soul ? MUahahahHAHAHA

@ SM, Who said you knew how many sides or what markings they had before you made your choice on 1 or 2 ?

[dirtyape]

Yes SM, you are right. And really as there is no evidence either way you could never calculate the probability of either situation occuring.

One thing i've been realising recently is that a lot of people here tend to use science to compliement their belief that there is no god. Science may discredit a particular denomination of religion, such as christianity, islam, or whatever - but these are just interpretations of the existance of god. And as an interpretation they could be very wrong.

To say that god does not exist simply for this fact is wrong. What you should be saying is that the christian interpretation of god does not exist as it is described in the bible.

To rule out the possibility of "god" based upon the bible is very narrow minded in my opinion.

[Black Heart]

To rule out the possibility of "god" based upon the bible is very narrow minded in my opinion.

Then you would think to 'accept' the possibility of god based on the bible to be narrow minded also ?

[dirtyape]

Then you would think to 'accept' the possibility of god based on the bible to be narrow minded also ?

I would say that "accepting the possibility" of anything was being open minded wouldn't you? In fact, thats kind of the defination of being open minded.

[Fragin]

That guy in the video is such a noob. Nothing he said is new and he made the same mistake that so many others make. Everything he said was based on the assumption that there is no evidence for a god. That in itself is a matter of opinion. An agnostic is one who has that opinion - logic has little to do with it.

[Black Heart]

I would say that "accepting the possibility" of anything was being open minded wouldn't you? In fact, thats kind of the defination of being open minded.

well thats just the glass is half full /empty. accepting a possibility when there are 2 options defaults to rejecting the other.

ie rejecting that there might be no god, because of the bible.

EDIT : Yes I worded it terribly.

[true]

Everyone seems to have everything in order anyway so no need for my input

lol

[Hannibal4life]

How does religion explain dinosaurs?

Science will always win.

Interesting that you should bring it up. There is a description of a dinosaur actually in the bible, which would be laughable i know because science says man was not around while dinosaur roamed, although there are i'm sure multiple opinions on this.

Point is that the bible actually mentions one in the book of Job. What would you like us to discuss in particular? That they existed? Or the time frame in which they did? Or is there another point you are getting at? I will endeavour to assist you.

[Hannibal4life]

I'll rephrase that. The "holy bible", most read religious script in the western world, does not include dinosaurs. Does anyone know why there is no mention of dinosaurs?

You are in fact wrong on this account. I refer your eyes to Job 40:15 onwards.

[Hannibal4life]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't mention witches and sacrifices, yet hannibal claims to know all about it presumably from the bible. Oh and what is a leviathan ? the bible mentions them, and the rest is open to interpretation.

Black heart, if you read what i said you'd notice i stated that halloween was a time well known for sacrifices/witchcraft etc. I didn't mention the bible as i recall, but will check. I would inform you that there is mention on witchcraft in almost half of the new testement books.

[Hannibal4life]

So Dinosaurs were created after the bible?

No, sorry to clarify the official Christian position to dinosaurs - if its mentioned in the bible then Christian believe it. The denominations i work with concer that they did exist, and are even mentioned in Job, as for the dinosaurs created after the bible, they were in fact created on the same day as other land animals. If you wanna chat more i'm quite comfotable to also provide more evidence to back this up.

[Hannibal4life]

So... despite the fact that all these Christian events were placed deliberately on, or very close to significant dates in the solar calender, specifically the solstice and equinox events, you still think that they are primarily christian festivals?

Makes you wonder how popular Christianity would have been if it hadn't been introduced as part of a pre-established holiday.

I have never said the events were originally pagan. The christian festivals were always Christian. The pagan festivals occurred at the same time. And the clash was deliberately timed like i said earlier. The church however fyi, grew significantly from 30AD to 200AD for many reasons the least significant was the hosting of "days of rememberance" etc in a deliberate clash with other festivals.

[Hannibal4life]

100% agree. That said, I think religion should be kept seperate from pretty much everything.

Yeah i'd agree, but then we'd have no legal system at all... and then we'd all be buggered.

[Black Heart]

Vast majority of people would disagree about your statement that a behemoth was a dinosaur.
wiki for starters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behemoth

[Black Heart]

Yeah i'd agree, but then we'd have no legal system at all... and then we'd all be buggered.

laws predate christianity. And I'm pretty sure you'd have trouble finding a link between illegal parking and a bible.

[Black Heart]

No, sorry to clarify the official Christian position to dinosaurs - if its mentioned in the bible then Christian believe it. The denominations i work with concer that they did exist, and are even mentioned in Job, as for the dinosaurs created after the bible, they were in fact created on the same day as other land animals. If you wanna chat more i'm quite comfotable to also provide more evidence to back this up.

when were poodles created?

[Hannibal4life]

People are drawn to religion because they want spiritual guidance. Religion provides a blueprint on how to live your life, and a solid grounding. I think that's a prefectly resonable thing to want and good luck to those people.

The truth is in the message not the details of whether turning water into wine is actually possible etc. When religion tries to do what science is for ie explain the natural universe - it just gets pwned so bad.

Religion has been getting pwned on a regular basis since Copernicus, Galileo etc. They need a new coach!

Given your guys lack of understanding of dating methods i can understand why you don't believe the bible.

Basic 5th form chem.... Potassium is soluble. The major dating method other that carbon dating is a method called potassium argon testing. Were there a major flood as descibed in Genesis, this would simply destroy the evolutionary dating practise for well anything. It is amuzing reading your posts about science given they never contact any science above 4th form. I think it niave to accept anything without testing it from a neutral point of view - in fact its like walking into a bank for a home loan and saying "you guys are the guys i want to have my mortgage with - cheerzs." It would be stupid to not look to all the options and then decide, based on evidence. Yet at every turn your arguement has been to attack our credibility for believing the bible, yet you have never presented any credible facts to support your religious evolutionist theories. The science you do mention has inherrent flaws that can easily be spotted, and quite frankly usually are by average people when studying a B Sc.

All the best.

[Hannibal4life]

Wrong. My post was small but perfectly formed.


Tiwa, from what i can tell you left the debate about 2 and 1/2 pages ago. :bigglasse

Hey i just looked back a few pages - on page 10 did Hannibal4life really make 10 consecutive posts?!?! And then Tiwa made 6 consecutive posts in reply?!? Awesome!!! :rnr:

Cheers man, i always read a post at a time and reply. Theres just so much to say.:bounce:

[Hannibal4life]

MUAHAHAH YOU LOSE WANDY!!! YOU LOSE!! *makes L shape with hand and holds it to forehead pointing at Wandy

There may be no clear winner but wandy caved under the pressure to become the clear loser, thank you goodwin.

Yeah LOL to that.

[Hannibal4life]

because religious peoples have never been known to use guns?

ROFL, yeah ummm waco texas lol. Real bad example, and fyi there are christian in the defense forces in NZ.

[Black Heart]

potassium argon dating is used to date minerals, not fossils.

heres the first link i found using google, mr science man http://hypertextbook.com/physics/modern/half-life/

maybe you're not as clued up as you think you are, or that you tell people you are anyway.

[Hannibal4life]

its about probability not possibility. you can't say it's not important which god it is either. when you're religious you tend to choose one. that choice can either be right or wrong, but by making that choice the probability of being correct is less, Even if you're right about there being a god, theres a chance that every religion is wrong, or just one is right. they can't all be right. you got more chance of being wrong.

Aethiest 50/50 chance
religious person has nowhere near that chance of being right.

Do you like to gamble, with your soul ? MUahahahHAHAHA

@ SM, Who said you knew how many sides or what markings they had before you made your choice on 1 or 2 ?

Yeah interestly enough Blackheart. Only one religion actually claims they are the only way to get to God. That is in fact Christianity when Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one gets to the father except thrrough me."

Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet... if a prophet cannot lie (their belief) then there is no point being muslim, cos Jesus said only he could save right...
Most other religions have a theory along the "Karma, or Nirvana" lines.
The choice is therefore easier, cos if the others are right (not Christianity for instance), then really you lose nothing, whereas if Christianity is the way then its the only way to heaven.

[Hannibal4life]

Yes SM, you are right. And really as there is no evidence either way you could never calculate the probability of either situation occuring.

One thing i've been realising recently is that a lot of people here tend to use science to compliement their belief that there is no god. Science may discredit a particular denomination of religion, such as christianity, islam, or whatever - but these are just interpretations of the existance of god. And as an interpretation they could be very wrong.

To say that god does not exist simply for this fact is wrong. What you should be saying is that the christian interpretation of god does not exist as it is described in the bible.

To rule out the possibility of "god" based upon the bible is very narrow minded in my opinion.

Its also biased to believe that science discredits the bible, when i can infact reinforce it on many occassions.

[Hannibal4life]

laws predate christianity. And I'm pretty sure you'd have trouble finding a link between illegal parking and a bible.

I probably would considering that cars were invneted rather recently my friend.

Laws predate Christianity true, yet qwhen did they begin? The basis of our legal system is actually found in Leviticus in the bible...

When you have an open mind one sees this sort of thing..