If science beats religion, can science please explain to me why i'm here?
We are here as a byproduct of the way the laws of this universe work, that is the reason. There is no greater purpose, to suggest there is a purpose would mean that there is an intelligence to universe.
The best thing about Finance Minister Bill English\'s latest Budget is that it does finally signal a much greater role for the private sector in the New Zealand economy. And another step along the way to extract this country from the political cul-de-sac in which Helen Clark\'s Labour Government parked us.
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." 29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so."
you still need to have hope that there is some point to life.
no not really.i could die tommorow or anytime in the next few seconds. if there was a point to life there would be no death.
Maybe the point of life is to end.
So as a "byproduct" there is no need for us to have laws, to protect the environment, to even ponder the nature of our existence. Global warming is just a waste of time, because the "laws of this universe" will have the ultimate say anyway (funnily enough this is what i have argued). Thanks science!
so are you advocating we all commit suicide to accomplish life?
To dismiss life as a "byproduct of the way the laws of the universe work" is to admit that all life is pointless. It honestly saddens me that some of you guys really think there is no purpose, no point to any of this. Heck, even if you take any semblance of God out of the picture, you still need to have hope that there is some point to life.
Might I suggest that if life is merely a "byproduct" of the laws of the universe, then death is as well?Maybe the point of life is to end.
errr wtf are you on about?? How did you arrive at that conclusion?? Self preservation is the motive.An intelligent designer is not a requirement for the self preservation motive of an intelligent species.
And laws of the universe have the ultimate say? wtf do you mean by that?? We are operating within the "construct" which is the universe, our existance is determined by the functions and parameters of that universe.
The "reason" for human life is the same as the "reason" for all other life - to procreate and die. It's what life does. Everything else is simply a means to that end. This is the simple truth about life.
So if the universe "determines" that we should no longer be alive then we won't be. It's actually a good point - for instance, there's no need to ban ads for Hyundai's with babies in them because the universe determines whether they will live or die - not the actions of a bunch of wet, handwringing liberals who have too much time on their hands.
Arrogance. How do you know that we're intelligent? In fact, you don't or can't know that our very existence isn't controlled by an exterior force.You've answered the last bit by yourself - but you don't seem to realise it. Taking your premise: if our existence is determined by the parameters of the universe then nothing we say, do, act, instigate or respond to makes any difference. So if the universe "determines" that we should no longer be alive then we won't be. It's actually a good point - for instance, there's no need to ban ads for Hyundai's with babies in them because the universe determines whether they will live or die - not the actions of a bunch of wet, handwringing liberals who have too much time on their hands.Thanks science, you've given me a philosophy to live by (actually, i've spent the last ten years or so honing a theory based around this, so science can't really take the credit).
By suggesting the reason for life is to procreate, you imply there is a reason. If there is a reason, there there must have been fore thought prior to implementation, which in turn implies intelligent design (I love that term, so careful not to say God, yet in reality say there is).
I would suggest there is no "reason" for life. In the same way that there is no reason for a mountain, or a lake, or a planet or a galaxy. As suggested by others, life is a result of the laws of physics that govern our universe and therefore possibly an accidental outcome.That is indeed what some scientists are suggesting. The only problem is as you have pointed out, people could blame their actions on the laws of the universe and say it was beyond their control. They may be right, but I'm not sure anyone in their right miond would like that to be used as a defence in a court of law.
Physics is God.
2) To do with TofuEaters post above mine, questioning DirtyApe on the implication of his comment that "we are here as a byproduct of the way the laws of this universe work": in the Bible, quite early on, God gives mankind the job of looking after the earth. And I quote:
Arrogance. How do you know that we're intelligent? In fact, you don't or can't know that our very existence isn't controlled by an exterior force.
You've answered the last bit by yourself - but you don't seem to realise it. Taking your premise: if our existence is determined by the parameters of the universe then nothing we say, do, act, instigate or respond to makes any difference. So if the universe "determines" that we should no longer be alive then we won't be. It's actually a good point - for instance, there's no need to ban ads for Hyundai's with babies in them because the universe determines whether they will live or die - not the actions of a bunch of wet, handwringing liberals who have too much time on their hands.Thanks science, you've given me a philosophy to live by (actually, i've spent the last ten years or so honing a theory based around this, so science can't really take the credit).
By suggesting the reason for life is to procreate, you imply there is a reason. If there is a reason, there there must have been fore thought prior to implementation, which in turn implies intelligent design (I love that term, so careful not to say God, yet in reality say there is).I would suggest there is no "reason" for life. In the same way that there is no reason for a mountain, or a lake, or a planet or a galaxy. As suggested by others, life is a result of the laws of physics that govern our universe and therefore possibly an accidental outcome.
That is indeed what some scientists are suggesting. The only problem is as you have pointed out, people could blame their actions on the laws of the universe and say it was beyond their control. They may be right, but I'm not sure anyone in their right miond would like that to be used as a defence in a court of law.
and therefore possibly an accidental outcome.
Just random occurance.
A question to all the christians, why dont you all die? if there is a paradise with seven virgins, or whatever cash prize you get when you die, why dont you just end it now?
Great! im a fucking random accident.
Please tell me exactly what difference humans are meant to make to the universe? You called me arrogant, yet you imply that the lack of a purpose is somehow an abhoration to the universe.
Thats hilarious.Us looking after the world?How exactly do we 'look after' it? We destroy it.
I never called you arrogant - i said that your statement was arrogance. There's a difference (certainly in my mind) so please don't take offence as none was intended.I also don't imply there is a lack of purpose - in fact, i will demonstrate completely to the contrary:When science looks inside our body it finds much activity - activity that is designed to keep us alive. Most of this occurs autonomously. When science looks to the sky's there is a remarkable similarity to that which is internal.If you take the smallest object we can measure - an atomic nucleus, you find a proton/neutron core with electrons circling it. When you look into the heavens you see planets orbiting the sun.There is little difference - i postulate that we are just all part of the cosmos, the universe is a giant body, living in a giant world where it is part of an even greater giant body. Think of it like those Russian Dolls.In which case, we are all being controlled by a giant brain, in much the same way that our brains control our functions. Most of our life occurs automatically, cells are born, live and die but the body lives on - until it reaches a point at which it's usefulness is complete and it dies. That proves the existence of an afterlife - just not ours. We are pre-programmed for all sorts of actions, show me the difference between highways carrying carloads of people and the bloodvessels in the body.
Which means that nothing matters - put it this way, someone in the thread said that if there were no laws there would be nothing to stop you going out and killing everyone. It wouldn't happen, because you're not programmed to allow it to happen.
Every thought, action, emotion, reaction is preprogrammed into you. You will only act in the manner that best serves the greater body. There is no other way you can act. If someone is murdered, who's to say it isn't a cancer cell being eradicated? Who's to say that it isn't the cancer cell doing the murder?
There you have it - our purpose is to "serve" the universe, to keep it alive. It doesn't matter whether we live or die the universe as we know it will live on. There is an afterlife, the universe's. It's been around a long time more than any of us, and it will continue to be so long after our deaths. Go forth little uni-drones, go forth and make the universe whole.
