Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[nick247]

So you are saying Bill Gates is bad even tho he gives money away?... just like the church...

The church gives money out of the goodness of their heart even though they might not have much of it....Bill Gates wouldnt give away his money if he didnt have so much of it

The church makes real sacrifices every day to help the poor and help the needy.

Put simply, Santa is real, God is a made up presumably so adults won't be scared of death.
Santa is actually a real spiritual being whom over a billion childern believe in!
I know hes real because I experianced his awesomeness one christmas.

God created the world bell, we didnt create him like we created santa. Something had to create all this thats around us. How else did we end up being here on this planet and being able to think like we do and make the choices we do but for some higher being helping us along. The exact conditions required for the world to lead to us being here in this form are zillions bagillions to 1, something had to have helped us along the way

Even though you experienced his awesomeness one christmas you know he isnt real. Yet billions of people have felt god, and experienced him and they know he exists....one day bell maybe you will get to experience this.

Yea you can go to some sort of "hell" in alot of different religons for a large range of things including not believing in that one particular religon.
So I hope you picked rightly Flea cause otherwise you are going too.
IF god wanted true believers he wouldn't have thrown in bullshit scare tactics like the going to hell thing, I know when I was a small child and first heard about all this crap I belived in this god chap because I was scared i'd go to hell if i didn't.

These different religons are wrong though, why do you think all the main religons of the world have only one god. Thats because the people who have experienced god know there is only one. All the religons who have failed in the past had multiple gods, these people worshiped false idols and thus god did not help them to succeed. Thats why Christianity is so successful today, god is looking out for us bell.

It is not that hell is a bad evil place, its more that heaven is a good place that is better than the alternative. You are rewarded by going to heaven for being a good person. Hell could be anything

The problem you none Christians have is that you cant go straight to god. He is above us and we cant reach him alone. Only through Jesus Christ can we communicate with god. That is why jesus christ is our saviour, we must embrace him first then you can experience god and you will know what we are talking about

[KiLL3r]

These different religons are wrong though, why do you think all the main religons of the world have only one god. Thats because the people who have experienced god know there is only one. All the religons who have failed in the past had multiple gods, these people worshiped false idols and thus god did not help them to succeed. Thats why Christianity is so successful today, god is looking out for us bell.

The reason other religions havnt suceeded is simply because other religions, which started off with more support simply force their beliefs on others. The true reason christianity is successful is because it prey on humanitys one true weakness, Fear of Death!

It is not that hell is a bad evil place, its more that heaven is a good place that is better than the alternative. You are rewarded by going to heaven for being a good person. Hell could be anything

The problem you none Christians have is that you cant go straight to god. He is above us and we cant reach him alone. Only through Jesus Christ can we communicate with god. That is why jesus christ is our saviour, we must embrace him first then you can experience god and you will know what we are talking about

This just relates to what you said above. your forcing people to believe in your god otherwise you end up in hell. You should have been a missionary nick, you would have done a good job on frightening those natives into believing in your god

[Santa Claus]

God created the world bell, we didnt create him like we created santa.

Something had to create all this thats around us. How else did we end up being here on this planet and being able to think like we do and make the choices we do but for some higher being helping us along. The exact conditions required for the world to lead to us being here in this form are zillions bagillions to 1, something had to have helped us along the way

Even though you experienced his awesomeness one christmas you know he isnt real. Yet billions of people have felt god, and experienced him and they know he exists....one day bell maybe you will get to experience this.

SHUT......THE..........FUCK..........UP........



You are one arrogant SOB. IF YOU THINK UR GONNA GET ANY PRESSIES THIS XMAS THINK AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111!!!1!

One day nick maybe you will get to experience my BOOT UP UR ASS!! It might set you on the path to enlightenment.

Billions of people have experienced my awesomeness. YOU KNOW IT TRUE FUCKERS!!! :rnr:

[BerG]

The exact conditions required for the world to lead to us being here in this form are zillions bagillions to

Yes. And the universe is infinite, with zillions of bagllions of planets, therefore its bound to happen somewhere.

[Zarathrustra]

The un-aided development of organic molecules from crap that naturally occurs has be replicated in the lab, so I don't see hows it's so hard to believe that a few of those could have randomly formed together.  I personally doubt there was only one evolution of life, there may have been many here on earth even, and they may still be occurring.

So maybe there is a God... I call him 'Chance'.

[Bell]

So Nick I hope you aren't having sex with your girlfriend, cause otherwise god says you are going to hell!

[KiLL3r]

Something had to create all this thats around us.

so if something had to create us wouldnt something have to create god? and then wouldn't something have to create that?
 and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  and then something create that?  etc

[Wandarah]

Fuck me dead. This thread is like a steaming pool of liquid retard.

[Arnifix]

Fuck me dead. This thread is like a steaming pool of liquid retard.

ASL?

[Arnifix]

I have no answer for this, other than to say the idea of any God who cared about my life wanting me to kill myself is absurd.

According to conventional christian belief though, our brief time on earth is simply a proving ground to show that we're worthy enough to enter heaven. If you're worthy, hell, why not die and go to paradise?

[nick247]

So Nick I hope you aren't having sex with your girlfriend, cause otherwise god says you are going to hell!

God is tolerent of the actions of man aslong as man is willing to embrace him and have faith. That is the most important part of having a relationship with god and going to heaven.

Sex, drugs, violence are the usual manifestations of evil or chaos, thus they are generalised as being evil, yet you can do drugs, and have sex as long as you are pure of heart and have faith in god and those around you.  

So i wouldnt be going to hell because i am still a good person inside, and that is what god finds important

If i was to go to hell it would probably be for beastiliaty...cos i fucked your girlfriend

squeal piggy

[KiLL3r]

So i wouldnt be going to hell because i am still a good person inside, and that is what god finds important

i think i am a good person on the inside, but i dont believe in god so does that mean i am doomed to hell, compared to a child murdering rapist who believes in god is allowed into heaven?

[Tiwaking!]

But even the new testament has examples of a god that is anything but good.

Religion is a relic and has no place in modern society

Seconded

Yes. And the universe is infinite, with zillions of bagllions of planets, therefore its bound to happen somewhere.

So maybe there is a God... I call him 'Chance'.

The sun cant exist. It hasnt enough energy to create fusion. It is caused by quantum tunnelling. I would asume less than 1% of Religious people would have the intelligence or stamina to go through the rigorous calculations

so if something had to create us wouldnt something have to create god? and then wouldn't something have to create that?

Ahh Saint Thomas Aquinas was the master of the infinite regression argument.

God is tolerent of the actions of man aslong as man is willing to embrace him and have faith. That is the most important part of having a relationship with god and going to heaven

I call bullshit

Simon_NZ will gladly point out all the times when God wasnt even remotely tolerant in the old testament

Oh but wait, wasnt there an argument about the validity of the old testament?

Sadly that lost some ground against Catholics as they just claim they only follow the "New Testament"

II. Christ’s use of Scripture

As Louis Gaussen has asserted, ‘We are not afraid to say it: when we hear the Son of God quote the Scriptures, every thing is said, in our view, on their divine inspiration—we need no further testimony. All the declarations of the Bible are, no doubt, equally divine; but this example of the Savior of the world has settled the question for us at once. This proof requires neither long nor learned researches; it is grasped by the hand of a child as powerfully as by that of a doctor. Should any doubt, then, assail your soul let it behold Him in the presence of the Scriptures!

From here

To ignore a part of the bible is to ignore Christ's teachings. Ergo, you have picked and chosen what you want to believe

The absolute arrogance to tear out and ignore critical sections of a Holy Book, re-write sections you disagree with and THEN telling everyone who is following the original methods and teaching "They are wrong and we are right!" BOGGLES THE MIND

Buddhist religion seems to be most reasonable. Vegetarian (optional?). Trying to reach worldwide peace. Try to respect everything. But the head shaving and re incarnation nah not gonna get me shaving my head and re-incarnation isn't more proven than Heaven/Hell. Wonder how they find the "enlightened one"...

Sorry guy. You wont be able to have sex. Or own anything.

Of course, you could choose one of the non-Orthodox styles of Buddhism, the ones which have picked and chosen what they choose to believe in.

[cobra]

One thing that annoys me about christianity is that if you pick up one of the nonsense bits in the bible they will say "thats a metaphor" then claim the bible is the literal truth when they want to hate on woman or homosexuals - can one of the christians explain this to me

[Bell]

Just men using religion to make people do what they want, which is the whole point of it in the first place so is infact the "correct" use.

[nick247]

just because some people have used religon as a means of power doesnt mean that god cannot exist and cannot do good

People that say they are doing the good things in the name of god that arent actually doing good things will be judged accordingly.

Anyone that has experienced god knows that it isnt about the shit you see people doing in religons name. Its about being close to something bigger and brighter than yourself, until you experience this you are ignorant bell.. ignorant

[Bell]

If you wanna see something bigger and brighter than yourself come see me in my room some time.

[Menial]

Bell-end?

[krasher]

According to conventional christian belief though, our brief time on earth is simply a proving ground to show that we're worthy enough to enter heaven. If you're worthy, hell, why not die and go to paradise?

Sounds more like JW's. That's not how my faith works - or anyone elses in my church. The reason God made us is so he could be with us. He gave us free will by offering us a choice we stuffed it up with the help of a lying snake. We became unholy because disobedience is no holy. God being perfect can't be around this unholyness - it hurts him or something. Old testament describes the rules that people had to follow to maintain holiness and to rectify their sins. That is where the misconception comes from that you have to be perfect to be a Christian. Thankfully the story doesn't stop there. God sent Jesus to be the scapegoat. He lived perfect on behalf of all humanity then took the sins of th world on his shoulders as the perfect sacrifice. Crazy huh. He did this because he knew we could not live perfectly but he wanted the original goal. That is how it is a GRACE based faith - not performance. That is what nick247 was talking about if I understand correctly. Are you listening Arnifix? Christians are not perfect.....just forgiven. He wanted to hang out with us. So the rules are simple. If you accept/believe that Jesus died on your behalf freeing you from the consequence of sin (eternal separation from God - Hell) then you will inherit eternal life - heaven. That is why there is a new testament. A new covalent. Its the new contract - but only one way. He has extended a permenant offer to humanity in hope that people will choose to come back to Him. So arni - now you know a little bit more about 'conventional Christian beliefs. Before I end my message for tonight.....could everybody close thier eyes and bow their heads...Kidding haha.

One thing that annoys me about christianity is that if you pick up one of the nonsense bits in the bible they will say "thats a metaphor" then claim the bible is the literal truth when they want to hate on woman or homosexuals - can one of the christians explain this to me

Yeah. Peoples emotional baggage often determines what they believe and how they read things. Our stuff is like a lens that we see everything else through - it means that we all see through a dark glass darkly.

just because some people have used religon as a means of power doesnt mean that god cannot exist and cannot do good

People that say they are doing the good things in the name of god that arent actually doing good things will be judged accordingly.

Anyone that has experienced god knows that it isnt about the shit you see people doing in religons name. Its about being close to something bigger and brighter than yourself, until you experience this you are ignorant bell.. ignorant

I agree. I get tired of people who obviously do not know what they are talking about making out like they do. If you don't believe...talk about why you don't - but leave your assumptions of what constructs the Christian (or any other) faith to the people who practice it.

Tiwaking, stop saying stupid stuff.

[ThaFleastyler]

One thing that annoys me about christianity is that if you pick up one of the nonsense bits in the bible they will say "thats a metaphor" then claim the bible is the literal truth when they want to hate on woman or homosexuals - can one of the christians explain this to me

First of all, a metaphor is the use of a story to illustrate a point. To say that God is an asshole for what he did to Abraham is wrong, because he was testing Abraham, while also providing an illustration for others to follow. Secondly, I don't believe the Bible hates on women.

You have to remember that the bible is a historical document, an account of what God wants to say to his people. Each person looks at a document with their own unique perspective, and understand it in their own way - the bible is no different. If you pick a verse at random, what I understand the verse to mean could be (and probably will be) different to what you might think it means, or anyone else in the world thinks it means.

Just men using religion to make people do what they want, which is the whole point of it in the first place so is infact the "correct" use.

Religion and God are different things and I'm tired of repeating this fact.
A religion is a way for man to control the way people see God. It is totally different from what God actually is, or indeed what God envisioned the church to be like.

[krasher]

Well said flea. And I gotta say - my version of Christianity is just that - my version. I am not saying its all the same or that I am right - its just my best understanding at this stage. I am no t so arrogant as to think I have figured it all out.

[(BHP)Clyock]

Wasn't it the VORLONs that put us here? Visited from time to time to make sure all was going well, if not do a bit of smiting and then move on?

[cobra]

Religion and God are different things and I'm tired of repeating this fact.

Isn't this religion vs Science - doesn't that make religion fair game

[Arnifix]

But even the new testament has examples of a god that is anything but good.

Religion is a relic and has no place in modern society.

Im sorry if this offends various people but its true.

I feel I must disagree. If religion gives people a purpose to live, that's fair enough. There are a few religions out there that promote a healthy message without any of the crap generally associated with religion.

First of all, a metaphor is the use of a story to illustrate a point.

What? No! A metaphor is a way of making an indirect comparasion between two unrelated subjects (ThaFleastyler lay in the bowels of the ship).

You're either talking about a parable or an anecdote, probably the first.

Sounds more like JW's. That's not how my faith works - or anyone elses in my church. The reason God made us is so he could be with us. He gave us free will by offering us a choice we stuffed it up with the help of a lying snake. We became unholy because disobedience is no holy. God being perfect can't be around this unholyness - it hurts him or something. Old testament describes the rules that people had to follow to maintain holiness and to rectify their sins. That is where the misconception comes from that you have to be perfect to be a Christian. Thankfully the story doesn't stop there. God sent Jesus to be the scapegoat. He lived perfect on behalf of all humanity then took the sins of th world on his shoulders as the perfect sacrifice. Crazy huh. He did this because he knew we could not live perfectly but he wanted the original goal. That is how it is a GRACE based faith - not performance. That is what nick247 was talking about if I understand correctly. Are you listening Arnifix? Christians are not perfect.....just forgiven. He wanted to hang out with us. So the rules are simple. If you accept/believe that Jesus died on your behalf freeing you from the consequence of sin (eternal separation from God - Hell) then you will inherit eternal life - heaven. That is why there is a new testament. A new covalent. Its the new contract - but only one way. He has extended a permenant offer to humanity in hope that people will choose to come back to Him. So arni - now you know a little bit more about 'conventional Christian beliefs. Before I end my message for tonight.....could everybody close thier eyes and bow their heads...Kidding haha.

First up, stop using plural personal pronouns. Everybody should, but mostly you. God had nothing to do with my creation, or the creation of a lot of other people in this forum. He did not give us free will. We did not become unholy. Get my point? If you're allowed to "correct" me on "conventional Christian beliefs", an undefined substance, I will certainly fucking correct you on English, a language based around easily understood rules.

Second, I address your definition of "conventional Christian beliefs". 1,063,737 New Zealanders identified themselves as being Anglican, Catholic NFD, Roman Catholic or Catholic NEC in the 2006 Census. This gives these groups the majority amongst Christian beliefs in New Zealand. Over 1 billion Catholics exist in the world in general, and combined with the approximately 100 million Anglicans, they will also be very close to having a majority amongst Christians worldwide.

What do these groups have in common? Catholicism and Anglicanism both strictly state that followers must not commit sins in order to get into heaven. So, to sum up, the majority of Christians, in New Zealand and the world, must both repent for their prior sins and refrain from sinful acts or they will not go to heaven.

Once again, you state that:

If you accept/believe that Jesus died on your behalf freeing you from the consequence of sin (eternal separation from God - Hell) then you will inherit eternal life - heaven.

THIS IS WRONG. The majority, and therefore, conventional segment of Christianity DO NOT BELIEVE THIS.

Also, please note that I have only included the major Christian denominations here. It is entirely possible that many other Christian groups that do not use sola fide as the sole entry requirement for heaven, and I simply do not know this, so cannot include them in my figures.

[Arnifix]

First of all, a metaphor is the use of a story to illustrate a point.

What? No! A metaphor is a way of making an indirect comparasion between two unrelated subjects (ThaFleastyler lay in the bowels of the ship).

You're either talking about a parable or an anecdote, probably the first.