Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[ThaFleastyler]

I can't teach you reading comprehension

"this shows great ignorance"

you statement shows how little you know/understand big bang/evolution - you were showing ignorance

I probably understand more about it than you think I do.

I understand that scientists believe the universe was created by the coming together of matter which reacted in an unexpected way. The universe was born and has been expanding at a constant rate outwards in all directions since (in fact, the universe is expanding and accelerating outwards so consistently at any point IN the known universe that at any one place anywhere in the universe you could be considered to be at the very centre of the universe (source: Bill Bryson "A Short History of Nearly Everything").

I understand science can't tell me what was before the Big Bang.

I also understand science believes that humans are the product of 4.5 billion years of evolution, starting with basic single-celled organisms, and gradually upgrading through almost every known genera and species currently known to us (including some kind of rock-type thing that can still be found in the waters north of Australia), before finally upgrading to monkey-like creatures who lived in trees and walked on all fours, then moving to the ground and upgrading to 2-legged walking out of need rather than simple "accident" - there was more food on the ground, and these primates were learning to hunt.

I understand that we share something like 99% of our genes with chimpanzees.

I understand science can't tell me why we also share around 80% of our genes with almost every other species we've discovered (although the likely explanation is that we've all been created by/from the same source)

So please don't call me ignorant, because I know I'm not.

[cobra]

I probably understand more about it than you think I do.

I understand that scientists believe the universe was created by the coming together of matter which reacted in an unexpected way. The universe was born and has been expanding at a constant rate outwards in all directions since (in fact, the universe is expanding and accelerating outwards so consistently at any point IN the known universe that at any one place anywhere in the universe you could be considered to be at the very centre of the universe (source: Bill Bryson "A Short History of Nearly Everything").

I understand science can't tell me what was before the Big Bang.

I also understand science believes that humans are the product of 4.5 billion years of evolution, starting with basic single-celled organisms, and gradually upgrading through almost every known genera and species currently known to us (including some kind of rock-type thing that can still be found in the waters north of Australia), before finally upgrading to monkey-like creatures who lived in trees and walked on all fours, then moving to the ground and upgrading to 2-legged walking out of need rather than simple "accident" - there was more food on the ground, and these primates were learning to hunt.

I understand that we share something like 99% of our genes with chimpanzees.

I understand science can't tell me why we also share around 80% of our genes with almost every other species we've discovered (although the likely explanation is that we've all been created by/from the same source)

So please don't call me ignorant, because I know I'm not.

when you say there is more evidence for ID then evolution/big bang it shows great ignorance

[Deagle]

when you say there is more evidence for ID then evolution/big bang it shows great ignorance

Ok, ignorance here, but whiskey tango foxtrot is ID??

[ThaFleastyler]

when you say there is more evidence for ID then evolution/big bang it shows great ignorance

But I believe there is more evidence for ID than evolution/big bang.
I could say I think you're ignorant for believing otherwise.

[ThaFleastyler]

Ok, ignorance here, but whiskey tango foxtrot is ID??

Intelligent Design (extremely simplified definition: Big Bang and evolution, but with God involved)

[nick247]

And they dont make our existence futile it just means we arnt the centre of the universe a bit like yourself nick.

im not at the centre of the universe, that is gods place and to a lesser extent jesus

i thought that was obvious

At least the only crazy religous nut in this thread has been me, and trust me i dont believe in much that i said, its pretty hard to take the other side with religon, most of the common points i thought up i couldnt post cos they were just too wrong and based on nofacts

religon has been subverted far to much over the course of time, to the extent that few can remember a time when religon wasnt being used for power and gain

Thats the important thing to remember Church and the institution that it is has been developed and continued by people who want power.

Even the idea of the churches giving away lots of money and being generous is pushing it at times, for every church that generallyl cares and is willing to help there is another that is helping for some ulterior motive

I think faith is a personal thing that can only really be judged by yourself, how many people do you guys know who go to church yet if you were running heaven you wouldnt let them near it.

[(BHP)Clyock]

He died, came back to life and then ascended to heaven.  There will be a rapture where he comes and takes the believers and leaves behind the non-believers.

I saw a program on Discovery the other day about miricles acredited to Jesus and a Professor of Religious studies at Yale was saying that most religious scholars these days believe the tale of the ressurection is noting more than that, a tale. A metaphorical rising showing how Peter rose up the other apostles to go and spread the story of Jesus.

[cobra]

Intelligent Design (extremely simplified definition: Big Bang and evolution, but with God involved)

That is not ID

ID is we are so complicated we must have been created by god in this form

this is from http://www.fstdt.com/ - can someone answer these questions about evolution?

"How can anyone beleive we evolved from monkeys heres a few questions for people who beleive that

1.If we did evolve from monkeys then how come babies arent born monkeys

2.Even Darwin said his theories were wrong before he died so why do you still believe them

3.do you really not believe the bible it says we were created in seven days not millions of years

4.how come we cant speak monkey

Just for a fact ape like creatures are monkeys Just in case certain people get on this thread"

it makes you think

[Arnifix]

they arent bones of dinosaurs they are actually just trylobytes (those little ancient shellfish thingies) that have died like that and then been compacted by the dirt and sediment forming above them

OF COURSE! HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO STUPID!

nick, you're either taking the piss in a heroically epic way, or you need to be an hero right now.

Look, I'm getting tired of answering for every single little picky piece of bullsh*t you guys are holding against God, against Christianity, against religious teaching in schools, against whatever. But I have to defend it somehow - and the only way I know how to defend it is via my own understanding of it.

Fair enough trying to defend your beliefs, it's exactly what I'm trying to do, so respect etc. However, I find it far easier to find reputable sources to quote than simply using my own knowledge. Why reinvent the wheel. However, we will continue being picky. You cannot simply say "God exists!" and expect us to get it. This is a debate, and many of us take it quite seriously. After all, the internet is serious business.

In my most humble opinion, Intelligent Design is more plausible than the scientific non-intelligent equivalent, and since it deals with the same subject matter, I consider it a scientific theory, exactly the same as I consider evolution or the Big Bang a scientific theory.

I have below quoted Wiktionary on exactly why intelligent design is not a scientific theory.

Theory - Noun

Plural
countable and uncountable; theories

   1. (countable) An unproven conjecture.

          I have a theory about who broke into the school last night, but it’s just a theory.

   2. (uncountable) An expectation of what should happen, barring unforeseen circumstances.

          So we’ll be there in three hours? — That’s the theory.

   3. (countable) (sciences) A coherent statement or set of statements that attempts to explain observed phenomena.

          There is now a well-developed theory of electrical charge.

   4. (countable) (sciences) A logical structure that enables one to deduce the possible results of every experiment that falls within its purview.

          The theory of relativity was proposed by Einstein.

   5. (uncountable) (mathematics) A field of study attempting to exhaustively describe a particular class of constructs.

          Knot theory classifies the mappings of a circle into 3-space.

   6. (countable) (logic) A set of axioms together with all statements derivable from them.

          A theory is consistent if it has a model.

The word theory is used by scientists as in examples three and four. It is used by creationists/intelligent design advocates as in example one. So you are perfectly welcome to state your opinion, that God created the earth whenever. However you may NOT say that it is a scientific theory. At least not without us lol'ing to all the way to church on sunday.

As for evidence, science only knows about the Big Bang because they looked at some bits and pieces of unrelated stuff and GUESSED that might be what happened. I mean, lets be honest: no-one knows what happened at the start of the universe, let alone the start of this planet. If I was taking a stab at what actually happened, given that I believe in Intelligent Design, I would guess that the evidence that science concluded was a random Big Bang was actually God creating the universe. Surely He could've made a Big Bang as he was doing it?

Have you read any good articles on the Big Bang? I suggest you at least read the Wikipedia article. And I have already used the "Big Bang might have been work of God" card in this and the other thread. Sorry.

Similarly with evolution: while I don't subscribe to evolution the way you guys do, I do believe it would be a pretty handy way to design a species, if I ever was going to do so. Surely God would have figured this out! Evolution is a real thing, that much is obvious, given even the little pieces of evolution that go on today - but I don't believe for a second we came from monkeys.

Evolution is pretty good. But not perfect. The best design system I can think of is an extremely rapid evolutionary period, followed by intelligent design, followed by rapid evolution, followed by ID, etc. For example, there are creatures out there with far better senses than humans have. Hardly intelligent design, if we were made in the shape of god, considering god is meant to be perfect.

[Tiwaking!]

Now I'm confused.......but God created the Banana for us primates proving his existence....or is it her? Anyway here's a vid to convert the atheist :sunnies:

Funny. God invented the Pineapple too. Not too hand shaped or convenient to is a Pineapple. He also invented herpes, a wonderful incurable disease. In fact, there is a song about all this:
All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot.
Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made their brutish venom,
He made their horrid wings.
All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all.
Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid,
Who made the spikey urchin,
Who made the sharks, He did.
All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all.
AMEN.

Also, I would like you to know that the world is indeed flat, I have nearly fallen off it but there's a nice rope around the edge of the disc.  In case you aren't familiar with world-edge-theory, the planet is a disc supported by a giant turtle that slowly moves through space on the backs of four elephants.  Anyone who says other than that will go to hell when death says "YOUR TIME IS UP", or if you're a rat "SQUEAK".  

Any beliefs other than this are simply preposterous and you must agree with me now before I condemn you all.

How utterly RIDICULOUS!

The Flying Spaghetti Monster holds us all to the earth with his noodley appendages. You cant fall over the side! And he knows if you try because he's omnipresent and invisible.

Am I?

Think of how silly you sound saying a great man was born who had magically abilities.  He died, came back to life and then ascended to heaven.  There will be a rapture where he comes and takes the believers and leaves behind the non-believers.

What's to say Heaven isn't the name of his spaceship and he's just someone with good knowledge of fishing and first aid?

Sorry dude. Raelians have first dibs on that philosophy. Scientologists have something similar with Xenu, but they're a whole other bucket of stupid.

I understand science can't tell me what was before the Big Bang.

Actually you should read up about the old "Steady State" theory. I thought it was long dead before I ran into those youtube videos with John Dobson.

im not at the centre of the universe, that is gods place and to a lesser extent jesus

At least the only crazy religous nut in this thread has been me

Odd. Just when you think you've managed to slay all the religious nutters who pop-up in this thread, another one turns up. There have been three main religious(Christian) crazies all who have gone now.

I wonder who could have caused them to leave.

That is not ID

ID is we are so complicated we must have been created by god in this form

this is from http://www.fstdt.com/ - can someone answer these questions about evolution?

"How can anyone beleive we evolved from monkeys heres a few questions for people who beleive that

1.If we did evolve from monkeys then how come babies arent born monkeys

2.Even Darwin said his theories were wrong before he died so why do you still believe them

3.do you really not believe the bible it says we were created in seven days not millions of years

4.how come we cant speak monkey

Just for a fact ape like creatures are monkeys Just in case certain people get on this thread"

it makes you think

1. We are a different species now thanks to the ten MILLION to one chance of positive genetic mutation. In addition: How do you explain those super-hairy South American familes covered in fur? Or people born with tails? 'Cursed by God'? No! Regressive genetic heritage.
2. Because we have working brains whereas he sold his to the Hulk God
3. I believe the Bible!!!.............makes great toilet paper
4. We can! Its just that our ignorant, holier than thou attitude prevents us.

[krasher]

Odd. Just when you think you've managed to slay all the religious nutters who pop-up in this thread, another one turns up. There have been three main religious(Christian) crazies all who have gone now.

I wonder who could have caused them to leave.

Your manners dick head. Neg rep me again if you want. I care heaps. I thought this was a thread of exploration but I should have trusted my first impression that it was just a God bashing thread. So if you want to continue your uneducated one sided conversation I will piss off.

[Tiwaking!]

Your manners dick head. Neg rep me again if you want. I care heaps. I thought this was a thread of exploration but I should have trusted my first impression that it was just a God bashing thread. So if you want to continue your uneducated one sided conversation I will piss off.

Oi I didnt neg rep you! Anytime I rep anyone positive or negative, I leave my name.

I hate it when people neg rep anyway, they never bloody leave their name! The only negative rep I've recieved is for my angry attacks on the Playstation 3!

You'll find that if you express opinions that are....surreal, you'll get neg repped in this thread. And no I didnt make the other two leave, Hannibal4Life is currently enjoying his new family home and the other guy is....gone.

Edit:

Why reinvent the wheel

Or even the SQUARE wheel!

However you may NOT say that it is a scientific theory. At least not without us lol'ing to all the way to church on sunday.

Thats like quote of the week material right there

[krasher]

Oi I didnt neg rep you! Anytime I rep anyone positive or negative, I leave my name.

I hate it when people neg rep anyway, they never bloody leave their name! The only negative rep I've recieved is for my angry attacks on the Playstation 3!

Ok, lol, fair enuf - good to know that some people have the balls to own up.

[GoatSlayer]

Was it Karl Marx who said religion was the opiate of the masses? or was it Tiwa he seems to be owning every argument in here he might aswell own that quote. I would prefer opium tea to be the opiate of the masses but thanks to our good friend prohibition that wont happen.

[Simon_NZ]

intelligent design solves nothing

science thrives in its own ignorance - that is why it is always pushing the envelope, wanting more

id is none of that - it simply states that "god did it" without reason or purpose. It is at best a placeholder at worst something very dangerous.

[Bell]

haha at everyone thinking nick was serious.

[krasher]

haha at everyone thinking nick was serious.

It is pretty hard to tell.

[dirtyape]

No offence, but that is utter f*cking bullshit. HEROIN IS NOT GOOD FOR YOU!

Actually Heroin is the best narcotic for your body, it is the most natural and causes the least amount of permanent physical/mental damage.

One could say the same about religion:
"religion doesn't do harm but it develops beliefs and agendas that are against the will of God, that people have used to do harm."

The bible (OT) teaches that violence is the answer to biblical intolerances. It provides motives to kill in the name of God.

For example, to say that God is a bad person because churches/religions demand money is wrong, because the church/religion is demanding money, not God. The Bible is a book shared and/or acknowledged by many religions, but God is the same God.

To say god is a person at all is wrong. MAN != GOD && MAN != GOD'S IMAGE. Making man and god similar is the most arrogant assertion any human can ever make.

metaphorically...
cold is like god.
snow is like religion.
flakes are like religious followers. they are all different in their view of what god is in some aspect, yet they always lay claim to being millions of them, despite no two are the same.

yes the flakes pun was intended, i'm just that clever.

Funny you should mention snow flakes. I was thinking of them the other day. I feel there is something profoundly significant in their design. A snow flake is proof that complex structures can form naturally - without devine interference. Or does god make each snow flake personally? No, they form in accordance to the laws of nature.

i dont know whether this has been posted and i cant be bothered looking for it but the bible is said to God's word right - but it was written down by men - does anyone think that some errors may have been made transcribing it because men are imperfect? also as it is reprinted that more errors may have crept in?

Yes this has been said before. And it is true. If god is all that is good, and man wrote the bible, and man cannot ever attain true goodness, then the bible is by this definition a work of evil. In fact teaching christianity itself is self condemnation. Whorship idols? You whorship a book written by man, man sins. End of story. See you in hell suckers. lol

bell theres more proof of jesus and his healing miracles and wine making than there is of dinosaurs existing and us evolving from apes of all things, why would we "evolve" from apes when god made us in his form

The only proof that the bible can assert is that man could write at the time. Everything else contained in it is purely a matter of opinion.

Just think people used to believe that the world was flat, but now noone in their right mind would say that. It is the same with god, just because we dont have the technology to see him now doesnt mean he isnt there, those with faith are like chris columbus

Common knowledge != truth. History has proven that man will always be wrong. Assuming you are correct about god is also wrong. There will come a time when christianity is dead and your God is long forgotten. Mark my words.

The same applies to science. But science evolves. Christianity is static. It cannot survive.

In my most humble opinion, Intelligent Design is more plausible than the scientific non-intelligent equivalent, and since it deals with the same subject matter, I consider it a scientific theory, exactly the same as I consider evolution or the Big Bang a scientific theory.

It is a very bad theory. It has no supporting evidence except for a book. The evidence has also been scientifically disproven in a number of ways. The evidence also contradicts itself numerous times and contains errors.

If the bible contains errors then it cannot be the work of god, as god is infallible.

Intelligent Design (extremely simplified definition: Big Bang and evolution, but with God involved)

Adding intelligence to creation is introducing a useless coefficient to the equation. It serves no purpose.

[cobra]

Oi I didnt neg rep you! Anytime I rep anyone positive or negative, I leave my name.

I hate it when people neg rep anyway, they never bloody leave their name! The only negative rep I've recieved is for my angry attacks on the Playstation 3!

You'll find that if you express opinions that are....surreal, you'll get neg repped in this thread. And no I didnt make the other two leave, Hannibal4Life is currently enjoying his new family home and the other guy is....gone.

Yeah - i haven't neg repped anyone for this thread - it just doesn't seem to be the christian thing to do

[KiLL3r]

haha at everyone thinking nick was serious.

that just what he wants you to think after he made such a ass of himself

[Simon_NZ]

no kill3r nick wasnt being serious

duh!

[Arnifix]

no kill3r nick wasnt being serious

duh!

Then what's he doing in this thread?

[Simon_NZ]

taking theeee piss

duh!

[KiLL3r]

taking theeee piss

duh!

just because one of your clan members is a moronic idiot doesn't mean you have to defend his ignorance

[Bell]

hahaha killer, go back and look at his posts especially the ones said after i posted then take note that nick is my flatmate....