Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline Black Heart

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why make Noah do anything though? god could have just conjured the boat up and Noah could have gotten more animals onboard like the unicorns, pixies & gnomes. instead he wasted his time on boat building and finding moas & dodo's.

Reply #2450 Posted: May 02, 2007, 12:38:14 pm

Offline (BHP)Clyock

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Quote from: cobra;409040
But if the ark was sealed with jesus's love it could float


Wasn't the flood before JC put in an appearence?

Reply #2451 Posted: May 02, 2007, 12:54:07 pm

Offline frog.

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its interesting to note that if you were to cross reference what the ancient
mythologys say, we see they were all talking about the same thing.
a great deluge/cataclysm
were our great civilizations just babbling fools? is there evidence for this event?

Mesopotamian texts, the book of Taliesin (Welsh), the Mythologys of the Navajo Inian, the Zen Avesta (persains), the Norse Edda, the Kato, Washington, Zuni, Hopi and Utes Indians, Chinese legneds, the Miztecs of South America just to name a few talk about this deluge.

the story of Noah and the Ark i think came from Gaelic mythology and what they spoke about.
the Tuatha De Dannan meaning "the tribe of the goddess Danu"
this was a Druid tribe that came from the west (the west you say!?) and settled in irland
after the destruction of their kingdoms and lands from a great cataclysm
now the high king of this particular race, his name was Nada and he was instructed to build these boats to survive the deluge.

Reply #2452 Posted: May 02, 2007, 01:42:15 pm
pancakesrreal | Everyone of us is high but you

Offline frog.

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i will destroy man whom i have created from the face of the earth;
both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowels of the air;
for it repenteth me that i have made them.
Genesis 6:8

one thing i dont understand about this story.
so why would God destroy everything that is his, everything that he created?
except Noah AND Satan.

the question is why not just destroy Satan the deceiver of all. he destroys his creation and untouched is the problem.

Reply #2453 Posted: May 02, 2007, 01:55:18 pm
pancakesrreal | Everyone of us is high but you

Offline cobra

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Quote from: (BHP)Clyock;409203
Wasn't the flood before JC put in an appearence?


yeah - but god could've sent jesus's love through time - using magic

Reply #2454 Posted: May 02, 2007, 02:17:31 pm

Offline Arnifix

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Think about it. A big flood has got to have been one of the most frightening things that could have happened to a tribe of people. And they're not uncommon. It would make sense that it would be perceived as a warning from god.

And not to belittle your point Frog, but Nada isn't exactly Noah. It just starts with the same letter. There's only 26 letters in our alphabet, it's not unsurprising.

Reply #2455 Posted: May 02, 2007, 08:51:55 pm

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline TofuEater

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Quote from: 'frog.;409272
the question is why not just destroy Satan the deceiver of all. he destroys his creation and untouched is the problem.

Why would he? If his entire raison d'etre is to get humans to have faith then he must have someone working to test that faith. In other words, if there was no evil then humans wouldn't know what it was they were trying to attain.

Reply #2456 Posted: May 02, 2007, 08:58:50 pm
Quote from: Fran O\'Sullivan
The best thing about Finance Minister Bill English\'s latest Budget is that it does finally signal a much greater role for the private sector in the New Zealand economy. And another step along the way to extract this country from the political cul-de-sac in which Helen Clark\'s Labour Government parked us.

Offline Simon_NZ

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what kinda god needs to threaten his people? doesn't sound very nice to me

Reply #2457 Posted: May 02, 2007, 09:02:00 pm

Offline Bell

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Or its a big load of confusing bullshit.

Reply #2458 Posted: May 02, 2007, 09:02:27 pm

Offline (BHP)Clyock

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Quote from: 'frog.;409259
its interesting to note that if you were to cross reference what the ancient
mythologys say, we see they were all talking about the same thing.
a great deluge/cataclysm
were our great civilizations just babbling fools? is there evidence for this event?

Mesopotamian texts, the book of Taliesin (Welsh), the Mythologys of the Navajo Inian, the Zen Avesta (persains), the Norse Edda, the Kato, Washington, Zuni, Hopi and Utes Indians, Chinese legneds, the Miztecs of South America just to name a few talk about this deluge.

I think the thing with this story\myth is that they are all many years seperate from each other, 1,000's in the case of Gilgamesh and Noah so they can hardly be the same story.

To look for an explanation how's this- All early civs would have located close to water sources and they would have been used to seeing floods of various sizes, the destruction that came with them and then the rebirth that would follow. It's quite easy to see how this could have developed into the stories we see now, a great cleansing flood destroying wickedness etc then after the land is restored to its pristene glory.


Just a thought.

Reply #2459 Posted: May 02, 2007, 09:03:55 pm

Online Tiwaking!

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Quote from: Black Heart;409172
why make Noah do anything though? god could have just conjured the boat up and Noah could have gotten more animals onboard like the unicorns, pixies & gnomes. instead he wasted his time on boat building and finding moas & dodo's.

He already got the unicorns, dinosaurs and kangeroos. I guess moa's and dodo's could float
Quote from: (BHP)Clyock;409203
Wasn't the flood before JC put in an appearence?

Incorrect

Genesis 1:2. And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face
of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

Holy spirit = God = Jesus Christ, the blessed trinity
Quote from: TofuEater;409836
Why would he? If his entire raison d'etre is to get humans to have faith then he must have someone working to test that faith. In other words, if there was no evil then humans wouldn't know what it was they were trying to attain.

Quote from: Simon_NZ;409838
what kinda god needs to threaten his people? doesn't sound very nice to me

Quote from: Bell;409840
Or its a big load of confusing bullshit.

Epicurus taught this incredibly simple, yet ultimately infallible logic:
"If God is all powerful, why does God allow evil to exist? If God is willing, but unable to prevent evil, then God is not all powerful. If God is able, but unwilling then God is malevolent. If God is unwilling and unable then Why call him God?"

Even what ThaFleaStlyer says has a fatal flaw
Quote from: ThaFleastyler;409045
Cobra is obviously being sarcastic, but to any person who believes the story as it appears in the bible, the power of God overrules any technical shortcomings.

So in a simple gaming analogy: "God fixes the game"

So if we are all dancing to the tune God plays, but God can both change the Tune and the area we dance on, why the hell are we listening to the music?!

It is this kind of logic that prevents Bible Belt America from doing something about climate control. Why would you bother looking after the planet when God can just leap down from the back of Helios, the Sun Chariot, and fix everything up? So Hell on earth = Heaven on earth because God will fix it up due to it not possibly being able to get any worse, right?

Reply #2460 Posted: May 02, 2007, 09:51:31 pm
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Offline (BHP)Clyock

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;409899
Incorrect

Genesis 1:2. And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face
of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

Holy spirit = God = Jesus Christ, the blessed trinity


Aren't the Holy Trinity considered seperate entities by some and not by others isn't that what one of those schismy things is about?
JC's physical manifestation was long after the Flood story/myth infact wasn't the Holy Trinity created much much later?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

Just asking you know, far be it from me to say you might have made a boo boo.

I look forward to my illumination and spanking.

Reply #2461 Posted: May 02, 2007, 10:45:28 pm

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Quote from: (BHP)Clyock;409950
I look forward to my illumination and spanking.

Quote from: Catholic Encyclopedia
Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God."

What isnt clear about that?

Reply #2462 Posted: May 02, 2007, 11:30:52 pm
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Offline TuataraDude

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Just so I don't appear too idiotic, when talking about "JC", do we mean John Cleese or Jeremy Clarkson?










j/k!

Reply #2463 Posted: May 02, 2007, 11:39:02 pm
Just when I thought I was out, they drag me back in.

Offline cobra

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;409996
What isnt clear about that?


" Lord why has though forsaken me " - was jesus talking to himself?

Reply #2464 Posted: May 02, 2007, 11:51:21 pm

Offline (BHP)Clyock

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;409996
What isnt clear about that?

This.

Quote
In Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit. Since the 4th century, in both Eastern and Western Christianity, this doctrine has been stated as "three persons in one God," all three of whom, as distinct and co-eternal persons, are of one indivisible Divine essence, a simple being. Supporting the doctrine of the Trinity is known as Trinitarianism. The majority of Christians are Trinitarian, and regard belief in the Trinity as a test of orthodoxy. Opposing, nontrinitarian positions that are held by some groups include Binitarianism (two deities/persons/aspects), Unitarianism (one deity/person/aspect), the Godhead (Latter Day Saints) (three separate beings) and Modalism (Oneness).

And this.

Quote
In addition to teaching that God comprises three persons, the doctrine also teaches that the Son Himself has two distinct natures, one fully divine and the other fully human.

Neither the Old Testament nor New Testament uses the term "Trinity," though Trinitarians believe the concept is implicit in various biblical passages (see Scripture section below). The doctrine of the Trinity is the result of continuous exploration by the church of the biblical data, argued in debate and treatises.[1] It was expressed in early writings from the beginning of the second century forward.[1] The First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD established a nearly universal Trinitarian dogma and expressly rejected any heresies. The most widely recognized Biblical foundations for the doctrine's formulation are in the Gospel of John.[2]

Reply #2465 Posted: May 02, 2007, 11:54:59 pm

Offline (BHP)Clyock

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Quote from: TuataraDude;410004
Just so I don't appear too idiotic, when talking about "JC", do we mean John Cleese or Jeremy Clarkson?


Julian Cleary!

Nice to see you got your pussy moving.:chuckle:

Reply #2466 Posted: May 02, 2007, 11:56:44 pm

Offline frog.

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Quote from: Arnifix;409830
Think about it. A big flood has got to have been one of the most frightening things that could have happened to a tribe of people. And they're not uncommon. It would make sense that it would be perceived as a warning from god.

And not to belittle your point Frog, but Nada isn't exactly Noah. It just starts with the same letter. There's only 26 letters in our alphabet, it's not unsurprising.
if you look at the caltic side of it then Nada becomes Nuada which is pronounced as Nuah.

Quote from: (BHP)Clyock;409842
I think the thing with this story\myth is that they are all many years seperate from each other, 1,000's in the case of Gilgamesh and Noah so they can hardly be the same story.

To look for an explanation how's this- All early civs would have located close to water sources and they would have been used to seeing floods of various sizes, the destruction that came with them and then the rebirth that would follow. It's quite easy to see how this could have developed into the stories we see now, a great cleansing flood destroying wickedness etc then after the land is restored to its pristene glory.


Just a thought.
the stories may have been written years apart but does it necessarily mean that the event happened as they wrote? (?) but the thing to note is that they all say something fucked them up big time. some catastrophic single event that changed the world. not some random floods of various sizes.

though they do add their own God... you know, as the angry dude who struck down with great fury! because the hiphop maketh him crazy or the disobedience maketh him emotional and blah blah blah shit like that.

the fact is it could and most probably was something of natural cause.

Darwin brushes the very surface on this subject. if i could only find what the fuck he said.

Reply #2467 Posted: May 03, 2007, 04:29:52 am
pancakesrreal | Everyone of us is high but you

Offline TofuEater

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Quote from: Tiwaking!;409899
Incorrect

Genesis 1:2. And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face
of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.


Genesis is the old testament. Jesus didn't turn up until the sequel.

Reply #2468 Posted: May 03, 2007, 05:24:10 am
Quote from: Fran O\'Sullivan
The best thing about Finance Minister Bill English\'s latest Budget is that it does finally signal a much greater role for the private sector in the New Zealand economy. And another step along the way to extract this country from the political cul-de-sac in which Helen Clark\'s Labour Government parked us.

Offline Simon_NZ

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Reply #2469 Posted: May 03, 2007, 07:23:40 am

Offline Menial

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HE WAS A MAN,  SHE WAS A WO-MAN.  HE WAS THE SON OF GOD.....

The trailer to the sequel?

Was supposed to be in a deep, booming, dragged out voice, impersonations are hard over the net.

Reply #2470 Posted: May 03, 2007, 08:01:32 am


Offline TofuEater

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In a land of forbidden fruits.........

C'mon, you can do eet.

Reply #2471 Posted: May 03, 2007, 08:12:14 am
Quote from: Fran O\'Sullivan
The best thing about Finance Minister Bill English\'s latest Budget is that it does finally signal a much greater role for the private sector in the New Zealand economy. And another step along the way to extract this country from the political cul-de-sac in which Helen Clark\'s Labour Government parked us.

Online Tiwaking!

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Quote from: cobra;410012
" Lord why has though forsaken me " - was jesus talking to himself?

Yes
Quote from: (BHP)Clyock;410018
This.
Quote
In Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit. Since the 4th century, in both Eastern and Western Christianity, this doctrine has been stated as "three persons in one God," all three of whom, as distinct and co-eternal persons, are of one indivisible Divine essence, a simple being. Supporting the doctrine of the Trinity is known as Trinitarianism. The majority of Christians are Trinitarian, and regard belief in the Trinity as a test of orthodoxy. Opposing, nontrinitarian positions that are held by some groups include Binitarianism (two deities/persons/aspects), Unitarianism (one deity/person/aspect), the Godhead (Latter Day Saints) (three separate beings) and Modalism (Oneness).

In addition to teaching that God comprises three persons, the doctrine also teaches that the Son Himself has two distinct natures, one fully divine and the other fully human.

And this.
Quote
Neither the Old Testament nor New Testament uses the term "Trinity," though Trinitarians believe the concept is implicit in various biblical passages (see Scripture section below). The doctrine of the Trinity is the result of continuous exploration by the church of the biblical data, argued in debate and treatises.[1] It was expressed in early writings from the beginning of the second century forward.[1] The First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD established a nearly universal Trinitarian dogma and expressly rejected any heresies. The most widely recognized Biblical foundations for the doctrine's formulation are in the Gospel of John.[2]

So, what you are trying to say is that Christians cant come to an agreement due to the plausability or unplausability of a theological idea, even though that idea is meant to be the cornerstone of Christianity?

You know what. They should fight a WAR over it! Oh wait. They cant do that because they already had a war, all because of....
Quote from: Tiwaking!;342221
I've been saying it since page 2 but we'll recap it
Quote from: Wikipedia
Cognitive dissonance is a psychological term which describes the uncomfortable tension that comes from holding two conflicting thoughts at the same time. More precisely, it is the perception of incompatibility between two cognitions, where "cognition" is defined as any element of knowledge, including attitude, emotion, belief, or behavior.

The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of dissonance (conflict) between cognitions. Experiments have attempted to quantify this hypothetical drive.

Simply put: Given two conflicting attitudes or beliefs a persons cognitive(that is 'thinking ability' to you dumb people) functions immediately either discard, dismember or incorporate the new attitude/information/belief into their own. This is basically the main reason why religions are so fractured, except for Islam which is fractured on birthright/power issues.

You cant attack faith with reason. You attack it with facts

Also: This thread has a point. It weeds out the weak. Or I weed out the weak. Or weakly weed. One of those

In addition: "(Latter Day Saints)" believe in the unconscious state of the dead and that we are in the times of investigative judgement, the time of which is meant to be 50 years long originally starting in 1846, but was pushed to 1914. ALSO: Jesus returned to earth in 1846, the Latter Day Saints are an offshoot of the Millerites who inadvertantly spawned the religion of Baha'i
Quote from: TofuEater;410068
Genesis is the old testament. Jesus didn't turn up until the sequel.

I believe I have covered the fact that Jesus is in the old testament and the new testament in an earlier part of this thread.

Reply #2472 Posted: May 03, 2007, 08:20:04 am
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Offline ThaFleastyler

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A world of beauty
A land of plenty
A love for all eternity

Adam is
THE CHOSEN

This Halloween, everything good is about to be gone.

IN THEATRES OCTOBER 25


:D

Reply #2473 Posted: May 03, 2007, 09:31:37 am

Offline private_hell

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;410126
A world of beauty
A land of plenty
A love for all eternity

Adam is
THE CHOSEN

This Halloween, everything good is about to be gone.

IN THEATRES OCTOBER 25


:D


lol

Reply #2474 Posted: May 03, 2007, 09:33:21 am
"Let him who desires peace prepare for war" - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (375AD) De Rei Militari