Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Growler]

I suggest if people are going to fight something (ie the bible) they should read it first

I read a book once that said if I take a light bulb and stick it my arse, and rub a ballon on my head fast enough, the light bulb will glow! and I believe it.

So going by your theory, you would have to agree with me till you read so called book??? or you can not at least fight my statement till you read it?

[laurasaur]

I did not say that you should read it and believe it, did YOU read what I wrote?? I said you should read it. What you do after that is completely up to you, but trying to understand something you've never picked up seems a little foolish dont you think.

P.s ill gladly read your book

[Twizzla]

religion doesn't explain anything, simply provides an answer that requires blind faith.

So basically you think anyone who holds a faith is an idiot who can't get by in life by themselves?

[Growler]

i also believe in hobbits, dragons, wizrards, witches, talking dogs, 4 fingered yellow people, flying cars, r2d2 and americans with a sense of humor.

i tried to read the bible, but when i heard there were no pics i gave up, its all gibberish anyway.

is there a comic book version out? or maybe a audio book in rap format?

i dont laugh at people beliefs, and will never try to disprove them, but i dont see how you can expect to prove your beliefs to a non-believer.

good luck trying to prove to me, cos in my book, the universe is a tall glass of beer, and we are just a mere bubble waitng to be swalloed by some big fat alcoholic gimp.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

You can get children picture bibles, but they leave out all the good parts, like the fighting and sex.

Flying cars are real, you can buy them already.

Dragons are awesome, so i belive in them, cause I want them to be real.

[Xt1ncT]

Yes religion is based on faith, but it is a faith (In my own opinion) that is worth having. Hey, if im wrong, no big loss to me right?  But what if your wrong? Sucks to be you...

I would argue the other way around, what if we're right - sucks to be you as there will be no heaven.....whereas if I'm wrong ie evolution is wrong,there will be a heaven and I *may* go there, if not I'll be nice and warm down in hell.

And so because of Adam, the little babies who have the misfortune to be born in somewhere like Africa where there is drought and disease and hunger, are going to die becaue of him right? Well there's a benevolent god for you. How have they sinned? And when was this Adam geezer around huh?

You said earth is only about 6000 years old right? How do you support that crazy notion? We can trace history back more than 2500 years right? remember history at school - Roman Empire, Greek Empire, Ancient Egypt. Things like stone henge.....all this supports the earth certainly being older than 6000 years.

But...lets say you're right, it is only 6000 years old. Look how far humans have come in that short space of time. Not so long ago we could only just walk, and now look - we reach for the stars and moon, and you know what?? We actually touch them - in other words we have evolved into this highly intelligent, adaptable being that we are today - proof of evolution perhaps, well maybe not for you and all your google searches. But it's enough for me. At least it's something I can touch and relate to literally and not have to derive it from a book, and base things on blind faith.

See this is proof of what my first post said. Laura, you are obviously an intelligent girl, your posts proove it, but to seriously belive and have faith in something you can't touch, see, feel, let alone prove until you're dead - by which time it's pretty much a moot point - is a bit bizarre to me.

[pukeko]

Both science and religion try to explain how we came to be, in not necessarily exclusive ways.

If we look at Aboriginal dreamtime, Native American Indians and Maoris, this was how they explained the earth's creation.. large snakes crawled the Earth and created rivers, a crow dropped pebbles in the ocean to create land, features of the land e.g. a mountain, were actual beings which moved if they had an argument.  If we can agree these views are flawed, can we not say the same for religion?

I'll also add that science is not infallible either, we did believe the Earth was flat  :rolleyes:

[Xt1ncT]

Dragons are awesome, so i belive in them, cause I want them to be real.

That's is such a profound statement, and is so true.

God is real because people WANT him/her to be, or maybe people NEED him to be real. It can't be proven, never will be proven, and yet they so want to believe. And so for them he is real.

I'd rather dragons were real personally - especially the ones from Raymond E Feist which can change their form and become really hot chicks....but I digress.....

Weird IMO

[Growler]

so maui didnt "fish" up new zealand or however the legend goes?

i should know, but i spent way to much time at school not being at school.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I would argue the other way around, what if we're right - sucks to be you as there will be no heaven.....whereas if I'm wrong ie evolution is wrong,there will be a heaven and I *may* go there, if not I'll be nice and warm down in hell.

That’s quite a flawed statement there, Whether there is a Heaven or not, it's no loss to believe in it. However if someone does not believe in Heaven and there is one, then I doubt they will go to it. How can you go to something you don’t believe exists.

Therefore logically is makes sense to believe in Heaven, you have nothing to lose by doing so.

[Xt1ncT]

That’s quite a flawed statement there, Whether there is a Heaven or not, it's no loss to believe in it. However if someone does not believe in Heaven and there is one, then I doubt they will go to it. How can you go to something you don’t believe exists.

Therefore logically is makes sense to believe in Heaven, you have nothing to lose by doing so.

But doesn't the bible say that you go to heaven or hell? If so I'll go to hell if not heaven. AFAIK there is no in-between.

Besides, I'll be dead and being eaten by worms so it won't worry me either way. Live life now, as you're a long time dead - that's my philosophy.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

so maui didnt "fish" up new zealand or however the legend goes?

i should know, but i spent way to much time at school not being at school.

Have you ever tried eating the dirt in the North Island? it tastes alot like fish.

[Growler]

what if I believe in eternal life, like gorund hog day......the day i die, i go back to day 1 and just relive my life all over again.......?

or maybe the matrix IS real, and we are all just living a dream plugged in to some machines battery?

maybe the english rugby team really is good?

maybe god is really all the worlds ATM machines, and whenever we take money out we are all really taking tickets to heaven, so whoever withdraws over a certain ammount gets into heaven? yeah, thats my belief now, time to go shopping all you tight ass rabi mofos are going to atm hell!

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

But doesn't the bible say that you go to heaven or hell? If so I'll go to hell if not heaven. AFAIK there is no in-between.

Besides, I'll be dead and being eaten by worms so it won't worry me either way. Live life now, as you're a long time dead - that's my philosophy.

I never said anything about the bible, i'm talking more about what someone personally believes in. There is also one clear piece of evidence that proves of life after death, we humans are aware of our existence, but it's impossible for this awareness to come from the physical world, i.e. If someone were to build a computer as intelligent as a human, and would act the same as a human and respond to things in a way humans would, not mater how complex it would be it still would not have an awareness, it will still be just electrical pulses traveling around. But we humans do have an awareness, so if this awareness can not come from our physical world, it must come from something beyond our world, which proves there is something beyond death.

[Growler]

but a human IS just electrical pulses.......

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

or maybe the matrix IS real, and we are all just living a dream plugged in to some machines battery?

That’s another thing, if we are in a "matrix", which we could easily be, then everything we know, all the science we have been taught, all religious texts, would all be not true.

And the fact is, no one can deny we are part of a 'matrix', as it's impossible for us to know.

[Xt1ncT]

I never said anything about the bible, i'm talking more about what someone personally believes in. There is also one clear piece of evidence that proves of life after death, we humans are aware of our existence, but it's impossible for this awareness to come from the physical world, i.e. If someone were to build a computer as intelligent as a human, and would act the same as a human and respond to things in a way humans would, not mater how complex it would be it still would not have an awareness, it will still be just electrical pulses traveling around. But we humans do have an awareness, so if this awareness can not come from our physical world, it must come from something beyond our world, which proves there is something beyond death.

WHAT....we're sentient beings, which is why we are aware of ourselves. That in itself in no way shape or form proves life after death. Sorry but I just can't accept that statement.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

but a human IS just electrical pulses.......

Our thinking is just electrical pulses, but not our awareness.

[Xt1ncT]

Our thinking is just electrical pulses, but not our awareness.

Surely it's one and the same.

"I think therefore I am" that illustrates our awareness of ourselves by our thought. So it's the same. An awareness does not come from outside of ourselves, and it happens while we a re alive, so how can it proove life after death?

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

WHAT....we're sentient beings, which is why we are aware of ourselves. That in itself in no way shape or form proves life after death. Sorry but I just can't accept that statement.

"Sentience is the capacity for basic consciousness -- the ability to feel or perceive, not necessarily including the faculty of self-awareness." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentient

"Self-awareness is the ability to perceive one's own existence" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness

see, they are different things.

The Human brain is nothing more then a very complex computer, is possible for the computer to be sentient, but it's impossible for a computer to be self-aware. But we are humans are self-aware, so if our brain can not give us this ability, where does it come from?

[Xt1ncT]

"Sentience is the capacity for basic consciousness -- the ability to feel or perceive, not necessarily including the faculty of self-awareness." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentient

"Self-awareness is the ability to perceive one's own existence" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness

see, they are different things.

The Human brain is nothing more then a very complex computer, is possible for the computer to be sentient, but it's impossible for a computer to be self-aware. But we are humans are self-aware, so if our brain can not give us this ability, where does it come from?

It comes from within. Our thoughts, our feelings. No-where else. End of story.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

It comes from within. Our thoughts, our feelings. No-where else. End of story.

No it can't, thats my point, our Brain is incapable of developing an awareness, as it's nothing more then a complex computer.

[Growler]

maybe thats the matrix side of things.....

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

There is no spoon.

You have to use the chopsticks.

[Xt1ncT]

No it can't, thats my point, our Brain is incapable of developing an awareness, as it's nothing more then a complex computer.

Actually it's a lot more than a complex computer, which invalidates your point. Computers are inanimate objects with no thought patterns other than those which we program it to have. All AI is prgrammed so has limits. We  know next to nothing about the workings of the human brain so how can you be sure it can't have an awareness.

IMO it does have an awareness and is more than capable of having one.