Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[sacredpossum]

yeah not funny cos its creepy :F

[laurasaur]

but i think that some of them have the most fun when they are trying to ruin things for everybody else, ie always trying to stop movies from coming out, harry potter, etc, they have no right to do anything like that

yeah i think its pretty pathetic too... i could not care less about what people do or watch anyway, plus im generally there watching the "evil" movies hehehe

[m3th]

im just popping my head in here to say, i fully meant to participate in this discussion.

but i have been doing a couple of things of the last few days and when i looked back at this thread you guys had GONE MENTAL lol and its like 6 pages now or something.

at some point ill read it all and then reply, but its just to mammoth for me atm.

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

on the topic of those nasty preists, i found out nearly all of those that were into little boys were also reformed peadophiles. Does that make you go hmmmm? it explained quite a bit for me

Story is convicted peadophiles try to abandon their child lust by becoming a priest, they get no possible lustful contact this way that could revive their old ways. But these days even tv commercials have sexual indication in them. The sex industry is inescapable, i blame it for reminding those peadophiles of the ol' days.

possum = yea its sad some people use religeon just to get in others way, Its what i call religeon abuse (not to be confused with religeous abuse).

heres one example: There was a guy on the GP forums years back who wanted to stir up life in the forum. he used; you guessed it: religeon. he started a "religeous clan" who purpose seemed cool at first, but then the clan leader started bible bashing, insulting, anooying, spamming and his excuse was christanity. Gave religeon a real bad name until i found him on the forums, i exposed him to be entirely agnostic, a joker who had no respect for what religeon stands for... but the damage was done.

as for ape = thats only the big bang theory, if the beginning was just god then there would be causality because god is the cause.

In a state of singularity where no physics exist, i believe would not include physical forces. So if no possible forces made the big bang then it is also a variable. I can say God made the big bang.

now i respect the effort you put into to prove the big bang theory and the resulting evolution, but im more intersted in a new theory. I would rather a discussion where we could come up with something that uses true brain power and originality, something we could all agree on: A 3rd theory as to how everything started. I mean, if noone can agree wither each of the 2 is right then perhaps both are wrong, perhaps the true story is a combination of both. I seriously beleive proven science and recorded history can bind together to form truth

I also have more concern over how the world will end, not how it begun. The fact is we are here as we are, what does it matter how we got here. What about our future?  looking at the state of how we are and religeon has predicted..What do you think will happen?

To begin with, there is the world carrying capacity to think about

Im tired of religeon vs science, i want reality vs logic. Im sick of hearing "proof" that has only been passed down science books, i want to see posts that contain words from the human mentaility itself, i mean your real thoughts with real philisophical understanding

[laurasaur]

now i respect the effort you put into to prove the big bang theory and the resulting evolution, but im more intersted in a new theory. I would rather a discussion where we could come up with something that uses true brain power and originality, something we could all agree on: A 3rd theory as to how everything started. I mean, if noone can agree wither each of the 2 is right then perhaps both are wrong, perhaps the true story is a combination of both. I seriously beleive proven science and recorded history can bind together to form truth

Dude, no one is ever ever going to agree to agree

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I agree with evolution and the bible.

[Twizzla]

possum = yeah that is annoying, and isn't really needed, people can make their own judgements etc. But the same is true of politicians and groups that think certain things are bad. ie. everyone thinks Grand Theft Auto should get banned blah blah blah.

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

Dude, no one is ever ever going to agree to agree

whos fault will it be if disaster strikes and noone could fix it because they could not agree? yours of course for not doing anything about it. People CAN agree to agree, we simply refuse to do so, sleeping in a thorn patch but living in a dream, saying to ourselves "someone else will do it". Such is the fate of the human race, i predict worldwide chaos quickly approaching and we are to blame. Is anyone going to make sure that my prediction never happens? No, because noone can agree to agree.

And dont get me started on GTA

so we get the picture, the game is evil. Cry my a river Jack Thompson

[Cheech]

Dude, no one is ever ever going to agree to agree

I  agree with you on that one!

 :rnr:

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

i agree to agree that you agreed

[Darkov]

Agreed if you hand over Chechnya

[Cheech]

I don’t really want to sound fruity but I have a couple of questions I have been wondering about for a long time they are not so much in the religion side of things more so the Creation of things.  

What I want to know is cloning humans from a living adult and creating (if at all possible) a replica of this human adult?
Would it create a soul-less being, would he/she be self aware from the get go?  Could the clone have the same memories as the host it came from or would he/she have to start from infancy?  I know cloning and abortion are two topics that mostly end in huge arguments but I would like to know what your opinions are on these topics.

Opinions anyone!

[Black Heart]

I don’t really want to sound fruity but I have a couple of questions I have been wondering about for a long time they are not so much in the religion side of things more so the Creation of things.  

What I want to know is cloning humans from a living adult and creating (if at all possible) a replica of this human adult?
Would it create a soul-less being, would he/she be self aware from the get go?  Could the clone have the same memories as the host it came from or would he/she have to start from infancy?  I know cloning and abortion are two topics that mostly end in huge arguments but I would like to know what your opinions are on these topics.

Opinions anyone!

cloning creates a baby, not a life size adult. the clone learns and develops, most likely with different stimulation / paths, and would end up a completely different adult. (personality wise). Also when they clone cows for instance, the patterns (black / white) are different, despite being a clone there is still some random stuff happening.

to quote Maddox "looking for a safe stance on abortion? Me neither!"

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

its not possible to create a carbon copy of an adult human at this time. cloning starts at birth like everyone else.

you can clone and egg and sperm and fertilise the two. you can get same age clones this way. but either way some fertilisation must take place. at fertilisation is where i beleive a soul inhabits the body. something needs to spark life in those independent cells uncontrolled by the mother brain signals and chemical/electrical reactions, this is why i am against abortion. what a waste of that souls time!

but to answer your question, creating an adult from an adult. will more likely form a limp extention of yourself, like a surgically removed appendix. I can emagine this being possible in years time (if we get that far) but i cant really emagine the "clone" encountering any forceful will to live.

of course thats just my opinion. You might get a series of peoples emagination from that question

[Darkov]

Ugh, read something highly depressing today. The education board of Kansas is apparently trying to teach Creationism instead of Evolution in science classes. They talk about how the earth is only about 5,000 years old :chuckle:

[deamora]

Ugh, read something highly depressing today. The education board of Kansas is apparently trying to teach Creationism instead of Evolution in science classes. They talk about how the earth is only about 5,000 years old :chuckle:

 :rolleyes:   to my way of thinking creationism or the whole seven days bit - was meant to be a parable ,ie an easy/acceptable way of explaining something to the comtemporary audience of the time - pple who had no real conception of concepts such as "the sciences"

       .http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-christian27aug27,1,7818465.story?coll=la-headlines-california&ctrack=1&cset=true

fark.com has a link to this story also .its about a american uni not accepting student qualifications if they had creationism as part fo their syllabus.(p/s be careful how you spell fark.com it has a lot of interestion stuff on the site - but if you miss spell it you get  well.... i think you ca guess)

[Darkov]

lol yeah, i mean come on...Dinosaurs fossils are easily older than 10,000 years

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

that depends what sort of equipment your using to determine that age (and what media you beleive).

what makes me interested is how well devoted you are to the evolution theory darkov...almost religeously devoted.

[Darkov]

Haha,  I'm known for strong opinions as I love debating. To me, both theories are devoid of sufficient evidence but I find science better to sleep with at night. At least I havn't got Big Brother watching me and prohibiting me from doing stuff.

Everything makes sense when you're on acid but for those not fortunate enough, you take it how you see it. For example, unless we have photographic and more proof of evolution it's unlikely to convince most religious types and some never will be convinced. On the other hand, unless I see evidence of religious theories I will never believe.

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

thats because religeon doesnt need evidence. lets just say the evidence comes to you.

you can continue not believing, thats fine. but if something does happen when you die, to not beleive will not mean nothing will happen related to that beleif. But hey you want to end up in hell anyway so you win twice

if evolution is true then nothing has a point. you may as well kill yourself now, because we are all unnecasary. i could go in forever but il hold my rants for now....

as for Creationism, it applies to biblic description but alot of the bible is metaphorical so i too can understand where it sounds far fetched. But i remind myself that over 8 different religeons from aztec to buddhist record noahs flood as an ancient event that took place. And these are worldwide cultures just like that flood was. I have read the whole story so it makes sence to me, you however dont want to hear it.

besides im onto my own theory, theres still things that neither theorys can explain due to their conflictions, when i start recording my ideas and discoveries il show you what i mean. But that wont be in a while from now.

And finaly my previous statement still stands

Im tired of religeon vs science, i want reality vs logic. Im sick of hearing "proof" that has only been passed down science books, i want to see posts that contain words from the human mentaility itself, i mean your real thoughts with real philisophical understanding

you may never believe but your not about to convert me either, i know all the tricks darwinists have made. For starters your find more evidence when he next assumption is made: a monkey dies in a curled up position and archeologists say its "standing up".
and when lucy's femur is found over 10 kilometers from the actual body

[Darkov]

I don't want to kill myself. I don't need to believe in something just to have a point. I'm having fun right now without listening to some old men who know no better than me. I don't want to end up in hell, because frankly it's a bad bed time story told to threaten people to be good or else. I'd rather not think about death because well, when it comes it comes and I'll find out about it. I've got too much life ahead of me to worry about dying.

I'd rather just get on with my life. There are more complicated things like string theory and electron tracking. I can see why people would prefer to believe that after death there is a perfect utopia of justice and freedom. Karl Marx likened religion to a drug, something people use to escape the injustice and woes of day to day life. I think some of his views make a lot of sense but you can interpret them differantly.

Honestly, the point of life is simple. It's to reproduce, pass on DNA. It's the simplest reason because without it don't worry about anything else. There won't be life.

That's it in the long term big picture as I interpret it. Short term is more important things that effect you individually, your family/community/country etc. They don't last long as history shows us.

In the end, I don't care what people believe as long I'm not forced to conform with their beliefs or forced to learn their ways like school children unfortunately have to in their early "impressionable" years with "Religious Studies". You can believe what you like, as long as it doesn't interfere with the running/administation of things or my life.

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

nice, those were your real thoughts with real philisophical understanding. thank you for complying. those are the kind of posts i want to hear.

[Verrt]

this thread looks like its going pretty well
but if it gets out of hand someone tell me an I'll dispense robot justice on it

I am far to lazy and drug free now to read through it all

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

not even drugs can give you the motivation to read through all these rants

[Xt1ncT]

WASHINGTON - Astronomers have detected a cosmic explosion at the very edge of the visible universe, a 13-billion-year-old blast that could help them learn more about the earliest stars.

The brilliant blast - known as a gamma ray burst - was probably caused by the death of a massive star soon after the Big Bang, but was glimpsed on September 4 by Nasa's new Swift satellite and later by ground-based telescopes.

The explosion occurred soon after the first stars and galaxies formed, perhaps 500 million to 1 billion years after the Big Bang explosion that scientists believe gave birth to the cosmos. The current scientific estimate for the age of the universe is 13.7 billion years.

"We are finally starting to see the remnants of some of the oldest objects in the universe," said Daniel Reichart of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Reichart led the team that measured the distance of the blast from Earth.

This gamma ray burst, or GRB for short, could be the first of dozens or hundreds that might soon be unveiled to scientists, and these expected discoveries could help them learn more about the early universe, astronomer Donald Lamb said in a telephone news conference.

"This burst opens the door to the use of GRBs as unique and powerful probes of the early universe," said Lamb, a professor at the University of Chicago. "This is what we've all been waiting and hoping for and now the fun begins."

Scientists had theorised that such bursts could be detected, and the Swift spacecraft, launched last year, aimed to find them.

In cosmic terms, distance equals time, so this explosion occurred 13 billion light-years away, with its light just reaching earthly observers. One light-year is about 6 trillion miles, the distance light travels in a year.

"We designed Swift to look for faint bursts coming from the edge of the universe," Neil Gehrels, of Nasa's Goddard Space Flight Center outside Washington, said in a statement. "... For the first time we can learn about individual stars from near the beginning of time. There are surely many more out there."

The earliest stars no longer exist, but debris from their destruction can still be detected with Swift and other telescopes; by studying the remnants of these ancient explosions, scientists may be able to tell what these stars were made of and how they formed.

While this gamma ray burst is the most distant explosion ever detected, scientists have found one object that is even further away from Earth -- a previously discovered quasar. Quasars are believed to be produced by gas falling into a massive black hole.

- REUTERS