Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Simon_NZ]

http://forums.iconzarena.co.nz/showpost.php?p=423503&postcount=2030
Beat you by 6 pages, n00b.

sif u matter old timer:P

[private_hell]

New discoveries about another universe whose collapse appears to have given birth to the one we live in today will be announced in the early on-line edition of the journal Nature Physics on 1 July 2007 and will be published in the August 2007 issue of the journal's print edition.

see more here:

http://www.physorg.com/news102516861.html


looks rather cool

[ThaFleastyler]

"My paper introduces a new mathematical model that we can use to derive new details about the properties of a quantum state as it travels through the Big Bounce, which replaces the classical idea of a Big Bang as the beginning of our universe," said Martin Bojowald, assistant professor of physics at Penn State.

Seriously, its hard for me to take these kind of articles at face value and accept them, when their discoveries are based on new theories or new mathematical models, that revise the beliefs of the old theories and mathematical models (and they didn't prove anything either; its all conjecture and theory). Is it really so hard for science to say "we don't know what was before the big bang and we may never know"?

As for the "religious" aspect (which will undoubtedly come up), thats the thing I especially love - science must be superior to faith, since they use mathes instead of a book :ohplease:

[SheepShagger556]

science must be superior to faith, since they use mathes instead of a book :ohplease:

2 + 2 = 4

*looks around for Jesus* "oh hey, there you are - um about the millions of starving kids in Africa..."

[BerG]

Is it really so hard for science to say "we don't know what was before the big bang and we may never know"?

You'd like that wouldn't you.

science must be superior to faith, since they use mathes instead of a book

LOL

You have a problem with that? Killer is going to rip you to shreds with that one.

[Cripple]

As for the "religious" aspect (which will undoubtedly come up)

Well you just brought it up, nice job.

science must be superior to faith, since they use mathes instead of a book :ohplease:

No, it's superior because it can be proven and it will always be accepted by the majority until proof of a divine being can be given.

Is it really so hard for science to say "we don't know what was before the big bang and we may never know"?

That is said now. They are called theories for a reason. That is not going to stop people searching for answers though - the answers they've found in the past have had a huge impact on civilization. What more motivation to look do you need?

Or would you rather have everyone admit defeat, ditch science and live out the rest of humanity at exactly the same level of advancement as we are in now?

[KiLL3r]

As for the "religious" aspect (which will undoubtedly come up), thats the thing I especially love - science must be superior to faith, since they use mathes instead of a book :ohplease:

hmm you believe in a old book instead  of maths & science huh?.


lets start with the bibles description that the earth is flat!

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

dont forget the earth can never move!

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.   (Psalm 104:5)"

So either you still believe the earth is flat or you believe science and math. Since you stated above you believe the bible, you obviously think the earth is flat?


Maths & Science: 1
Bible: -3

[Bounty Hunter]

There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something more bizarrely inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

as for religion, the reason why we can except scientific theorys is because in science we have consistancy, if something can occour then it will, how it effects materials is consistant, the reaction to the effect is consistant, the percieved effect is what varies, and in itself is consistant.

I know a fella who's had 6 years of astro physics schooling outside of what he aced in highschool, this is consistant through scientists.

the fella who wrote the bible was undoubtedly clever, he knew people are weak and stupid, he knew how to manipulate people and look what he has now...

[Black Heart]

god did it.

what a crap answer, honestly.

[DaCollector]

hmm you believe in a old book instead  of maths & science huh?.


lets start with the bibles description that the earth is flat!



dont forget the earth can never move!



So either you still believe the earth is flat or you believe science and math. Since you stated above you believe the bible, you obviously think the earth is flat?


Maths & Science: 1
Bible: -3

Come on dude, literal translations demean what could have been an intelligent answer.

[woofnstuff]

[KiLL3r]

Come on dude, literal translations demean what could have been an intelligent answer.

so your telling me not to take the bible literally?

lets get this clear now


DONT TAKE THE BIBLE LITERALLY.

just so later in this argument and in further arguments you wont come back and tell me i have to take certain parts of the bible literally!


some fun facts:



 

April 23, 2005--Sixty-three percent (63%) of Americans believe the Bible is literally true and the Word of God. A Rasmussen Reports survey found that 24% disagree and say it is not.

A related survey found that 47% of Americans pray every day or nearly every day.

Among Evangelical Christians, 89% believe the Bible is literally true and just 4% say it is not. Among other Protestants, 70% believe the Bible is literally true. That view is shared by 58% of Catholics.

By a 4-to-1 margin, those who believe the Bible is literally true have a favorable opinion of the new Pope.

Sixty-five percent (65%) of women believe the Bible is literally true along with 61% of men.

Seventy-seven percent (77%) of Republicans believe in the literal truth of the Bible as do 59% of Democrats and 50% of those not affiliated with either major party.

Eighty-two percent (82%) of black Americans believe the Bible is literally true and is the Word of God. Fifty-nine percent (59%) of White Americans share that view along with 71% of other, primarily Hispanic, Americans.

While older Americans are a bit more likely to believe in the literal truth of the Bible, 58% of American adults under 30 hold that view.

[ThaFleastyler]

I love all of you guys immensely - especially the guy that neg repped me saying "don't be a retard" and didn't leave his name. I wonder who is the real retard...

Anyways, all I'm saying is this: you guys rip me (and other God supporters here) for basing their faith on what you guys insinuate is nothing more than conjecture and delusion. What I'm trying to say is that a theory is nothing more than that as well; to form a theory or an opinion, you look at the evidence that is available and make an educated guess as to what could be the cause.

In this instance, a guy has reworked mathes that already existed, based on nothing more than his own gut feeling, and has come to the outcome that before this universe exploded into being, another universe existed. Its a theory, nothing more nothing less, based on the evidence available to him.

And I didn't say I believed in a book INSTEAD OF mathes and science. As I've said many times, I believe in the book AS WELL AS mathes and science.

As for bringing up random quotes from the Bible - no offence KiLL3r, but on the one hand you rip Christians and bible-believers for using random verses out of context, and on the other hand you use random bible verses out of context to prove your point that the bible is wrong. THAT is illogical. For example:

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.

Thats unfair to say that the bibles use of the saying 'the Four Corners of the Earth' proves it is a statement that the earth is flat - for one thing, the Four Corners of the Earth is a saying not just in religious circles but in ALL circles. Secondly, its been widely used for centuries by all people as a way of saying something is internationally wide ranging (for example, "you can find water in all the four corners of the earth"). It makes sense it would be used as a literary device in the bible, since it was written by man (inspired by God) and man used the Four Corners of the Earh as a saying.

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (Psalm 104:5)"

Obviously this verse is not speaking of the planet earth, but earth as in the land we walk on. Even though the earth does move, by way of continental plates (or whatever they're called).

In retrospect, I should've not said anything - obviously, as a Christian, my opinion is not at all welcome in the realm of science.

And to the guy who negged me with no name: fuck you.

[KiLL3r]

In retrospect, I should've not said anything - obviously, as a Christian, my opinion is not at all welcome in the realm of science.

now your getting it. keep it to the religion vs science thread but when real science is being talked about such as bergs galaxy thread dont come in saying god did it

[Simon_NZ]

um guys, clearly there is a energy cube.

transformers the movie says so.

[ThaFleastyler]

now your getting it. keep it to the religion vs science thread but when real science is being talked about such as bergs galaxy thread dont come in saying god did it

I didn't start the God talk in BerGs thread ... but I'll try and keep it down

[cobra]

Seriously, its hard for me to take these kind of articles at face value and accept them, when their discoveries are based on new theories or new mathematical models, that revise the beliefs of the old theories and mathematical models (and they didn't prove anything either; its all conjecture and theory). Is it really so hard for science to say "we don't know what was before the big bang and we may never know"?

As for the "religious" aspect (which will undoubtedly come up), thats the thing I especially love - science must be superior to faith, since they use mathes instead of a book :ohplease:

Not picking on you or anything but mathmatics can give us an understanding of the natural world, quantum physics was discovered when Schrodinger constructed an equation, just based on how he thought the equation should look

Also scientists will happly say "we don't know what was before the big bang and we may never know"? but that wont stop them trying to find out, because they might discover more information about the universe we live in

Science is superior to faith, not because it is based on maths (mathes) but because it is based on logic, reason and reality, not a book which has no real relevance to modern times

[DaCollector]

Sorry Killer but i don't ness support one theory more than the other.
The 10 commandments were meant to be taken literally but some the books in the bible deal with the esoteric so you take the meaning as you perceive it.
I feel you choose to pick a few lines to suit your argument/point.
Lets get real, the 4 corners of the earth are simply nth/sth/est/wst whereas you have sought to use those words to support a spurious argument saying that the bible says that and therefore the earth was considered flat by those folk of those times. You have no facts to back this mindset up. And really, bar our orbit around the sun etc, our earth is set into place and cannot be moved. Its all in the interpretation eh.

[Bounty Hunter]

ahh....we could have a discworld on our hands...

[DEATH0WL]

Remember the witch hunts, crusades and now the intolerance of homosexual people:disappoin

[Mr_St1nky]

I don't put any stock in a "news" website that has adds to "Paris Hilton - Exposed" on it.

[BigBoss]

lol

[hoodieblanket]

our earth is set into place and cannot be moved. Its all in the interpretation eh.

actually the earth isn't set into a "place" it might orbit etc but slowly we are moving out of our line.

[Bounty Hunter]

actually the earth isn't set into a "place" it might orbit etc but slowly we are moving out of our line.

our solar system also rotates around the galaxy, which rotates in a cluster of galaxies, which rotate in the universe, which rotates in a cluster of universes which rotates around something even bigger and more unimaginable which rotates around what we'd by now be calling infinity which rotates around me*.

* - [citation needed]

[cobra]

The 10 commandments were meant to be taken literally but some the books in the bible deal with the esoteric so you take the meaning as you perceive it.

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife" - so just my neighbors? cool i will covet other wives but never my neighbors

you also can't take the bible literally cause it is fiction