Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[cobra]

I'm sure you could do better huh?

wtf are you saying - i didn't claim i could do better - but if you gave me omnipotence i could

[cobra]

To harass Christians.

wtf - how is it harassing christians - i am discussing science - dont hate on me if you have a fragile word view

[Poos]

You can't prove something doesn't exist if it doesn't exist to begin with.

Umm yes you can, the argument over if it exists or not is because there is strong argument both ways.

[DEATH0WL]

Umm yes you can, the argument over if it exists or not is because there is strong argument both ways.

But then shouldn't they have to prove that it does exist, while the other side relaxes?

[Poos]

Lol they have provided very strong evidence to the theory. And if both have strong argument surely both sides should be heard and considered to reach the most plausible conclusion.

[Zarathrustra]

wtf - how is it harassing christians - i am discussing science - dont hate on me if you have a fragile word view

Don't worry, they love it.

Suffering makes them feel closer to Jebus.

You think religious door-knockers do it for the friendly welcome they get at 7am on a Saturday morning?

[krasher]

I provoke you cos then you persecute me and it says somewhere in there something about being blessed for being persecuted. Yeah, right - you got me all figured out, well done.

[Zarathrustra]

Lol, don't take things to heart mate.

This whole thread needs to lighten up. None of these questions and arguments are every going to be resolved here. Or anywhere.

[swindle]

Bingo...

[krasher]

Lol, don't take things to heart mate.

This whole thread needs to lighten up. None of these questions and arguments are every going to be resolved here. Or anywhere.

Yeah, tru dat.

[cobra]

Don't worry, they love it.

Suffering makes them feel closer to Jebus.

You think religious door-knockers do it for the friendly welcome they get at 7am on a Saturday morning?

it all started with jesus - now everyone wants to be a fucken martyr

[Poos]

Rofl my mate who is a really cheeky prat had to jahovas witnesses knock on his door one morning. They asked him if he would like to learn about Jesus, to which he replied. I hear you guys dont believe in sex before marriage,  Mr Johova replied in his American accent. Now we dont beleiev in sex before marriage. My friend then asked if either of them are married to which they both replied no. Lol so my mae said so your still both Virgins and still living on hand outs (he then did the tosser sign). Rofl both of them had such red faces after that then my mate shut the door.

Pretty mean but oh well, he never invited them to his house so..........:bigglasse

[ThaFleastyler]

Rofl my mate who is a really cheeky prat had to jahovas witnesses knock on his door one morning. They asked him if he would like to learn about Jesus, to which he replied. I hear you guys dont believe in sex before marriage,  Mr Johova replied in his American accent. Now we dont beleiev in sex before marriage. My friend then asked if either of them are married to which they both replied no. Lol so my mae said so your still both Virgins and still living on hand outs (he then did the tosser sign). Rofl both of them had such red faces after that then my mate shut the door.

Before my opinion on God changed, I had a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses come round to my house while I was hanging out washng on the washing line - cheeky buggars came all the way round the house to the back, to where the washing line was, well onto the property. Anyways, they started with their usual barrage of questions and stuff - I told them that I had recently lost my mother in a car accident, punctuated by my screaming "WHERE WAS YOUR GOD THEN, HUH F***ERS?!" in their faces. Needless to say, they left. (For the record, my mum is alive and well. She was none too happy when I proudly told her this story:()

Years later, as a Christian, it saddens me that they didn't have an answer to that question. Surely, if anything is going to be brought up again and again, its the question of where God is during tragedy.

Another time, mormons came to the door - I opened the door and they introduced themselves and said "we're looking for a prophet today!" I just said "nah, haven't seen him, sorry" and closed the door again :chuckle: The best joke about mormons I've ever seen was this pisstake mormon-extreme-sports movie trailer on John Saffron vs God ...

[video]BSeaoP9OPaA[/video]

[dirtyape]

just saying "quantum" doesn't make it a scientific statement

I'm just saying that from my understanding of quantum mechanics particles can travel backwards in time. I'm also saying that without a doubt consciousness occurs at a quantum level. And I'm saying that many scientists including Roger Penrose have attempted to define how thought works at the quantum level. I think it was Penrose that calculated the interval at which a single electron achieves "consciousness" and while his work may be controversial that does not mean it is invalid.

Unless you have a proper reason for refuting it?

Surely he could have been born with a brain that was better suited for maths but don't tell me he could figure out advance maths that involve a lifetime of study with no training because of good genes.

Why not? That's kinda what idiot savants do. The brain is a remarkable piece of machinery, and this is only using it's potential. Actually having memories is something completely different though.

Lol they have provided very strong evidence to the theory. And if both have strong argument surely both sides should be heard and considered to reach the most plausible conclusion.

I have never heard of any strong evidence presented by any religion. Oh, wait, maybe one thing that i'm not smart enough to discredit...

And that is the observer dependence in quantum cosmology. If there is no observer then why is there existence?

[EnFool]

[video]5g3pzXZzJ6g[/video]

[Tiwaking!]

Lol, don't take things to heart mate.

This whole thread needs to lighten up. None of these questions and arguments are every going to be resolved here. Or anywhere.

Yes they are. Im here now

it all started with jesus - now everyone wants to be a fucken martyr

Except that Pope Factory John Paul II cannonized more people than all the previous Popes combined and, in addition, the Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East has the most amount of matyrs in any religion

I'm just saying that from my understanding of quantum mechanics particles can travel backwards in time. I'm also saying that without a doubt consciousness occurs at a quantum level. And I'm saying that many scientists including Roger Penrose have attempted to define how thought works at the quantum level. I think it was Penrose that calculated the interval at which a single electron achieves "consciousness" and while his work may be controversial that does not mean it is invalid.

Unless you have a proper reason for refuting it?

Retro-causal micro-wormhole technology is currently being officially investigated at Princeton university(and probably unofficially elsewhere). As for refuting quantum 'conciousness' the answer is: Its unprovable, so wether or not it is possible is irrelevant. You can make various hypothesis, but cant prove the ultimate fact of electron 'intelligence' as a firm definition of intelligence cannot be established as its an example of 'comparative conciousness'

I have never heard of any strong evidence presented by any religion. Oh, wait, maybe one thing that i'm not smart enough to discredit...

And that is the observer dependence in quantum cosmology. If there is no observer then why is there existence?

So. If things happen differently if there is an observer then you could make the hypothesis that there is no overall observer, or that the observer is unintelligent or treacherously powerful

[Tiwaking!]

You can't prove something doesn't exist if it doesn't exist to begin with.

Umm yes you can, the argument over if it exists or not is because there is strong argument both ways.

Lol they have provided very strong evidence to the theory. And if both have strong argument surely both sides should be heard and considered to reach the most plausible conclusion.

I disproved God yesterday. This unfortunately has caused a dilemma

If I spread the simple fact and the evidence, do you still have Free Will after hearing it? That is: Did you have Free Will beforehand and would you still have Free Will now?

Would the fact that religious people would be 'free' to continue to live their fantasy after learning of the non-existence(and proof thereof) of what they believe in an example of Free Will or just an extension of idiocy?

In fact: Do *I* have Free Will after disproving God? If I choose to not tell anyone am I 'choosing' not to?

In any case, if I use part of the evidence to allude to the lack of God when refuting Religious arguments then I may possibly be able to mildly circumvent the idea that I would be affecting other peoples Free Will as they would have to make the conclusion for themselves instead of being pushed too.

Interesting. Sounds almost like a Religion....

[Poos]

Lol first of all im not religious, I dont want my thinking to be limited to a narrow perspective. Free will is another question all together. To say we dont have free will is to say that we should have  no responsibility for our actions as we never had a choice.

To say that nothing is determined would be to say actions do not have consequences which is obviously not true.  Its funny how some people want to believe its either one way or the other.

Obviously we have the free will to make choices, however your choices are still limited, therefore to a degree somethings are determined. You will get older and die however the quality and length of your life is greatly decided by your choices.

If you go back 100 years and look how far science as come, surely you we must consider that in another 100 years much of what we consider fact could be shot to hell. We really think we know so much now because of the boom in science and technology, but really we have bearly scratched the surface. Great advancements will come from those who think outside of what is accepted.

[Zarathrustra]

Free Will doesn't exist, but that doesn't mean people aren't responsible for their actions.  Bad people need to be punished, it's their destiny.

[Dr Woomanchu]

[swindle]

[video]5g3pzXZzJ6g[/video]

lol love the,

Ned: "Maybe he made a mistake...nope...its air tight..." hahahah

[KiLL3r]

lol love the,

Ned: "Maybe he made a mistake...nope...its air tight..." hahahah

they missed the best part where he says "cant let this little doozy get out" and in the background while hes burning it homer is putting other copies on car windscreens

[Zarathrustra]

they missed the best part where he says "cant let this little doozy get out" and in the background while hes burning it homer is putting other copies on car windscreens

Thats got to be one of the best Simpsons moments ever.  The bit you speak of is in there, they just cut some other crap in between it. (it's close to the end)

[swindle]

Haha Simpsons strike again!

[Tiwaking!]

Obviously we have the free will to make choices, however your choices are still limited, therefore to a degree somethings are determined. You will get older and die however the quality and length of your life is greatly decided by your choices.

Free Will doesn't exist, but that doesn't mean people aren't responsible for their actions.  Bad people need to be punished, it's their destiny.

So is it my responsibility to educate others and release them from a delusion? Does remaining silent and watching constitute me exercising my 'Free Will' or is it merely the continuance of a pre-determined plan?

"And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you"