Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Black Heart]

Nope. If I didn't (and I don't) know what the prints are from, I wouldn't say they are lizard or human.

I'd say I don't know. I certainly wouldn't say it looks 2/3'rds human so thats what it is.

[laurasaur]

oh boys, you guys are going to make me post again in this thread arent you. i know you want a 1000 line post again stay tuned lol

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

How exciting, can't wait!

[laurasaur]

get that sarcasm out of ur voice right nw or i shall whip u

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Thats even more exciting!

[laurasaur]

lol shut up you stop whoring

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Monkeys were the first species in space, which means they must have been superior in intelligence to humans, therefore there's no way humans could have evolved from monkeys, it must of been the other way round.

[sacredpossum]

Monkeys were the first species in space, which means they must have been superior in intelligence to humans, therefore there's no way humans could have evolved from monkeys, it must of been the other way round.

haha nice, still i'd rather be human tho

[Black Heart]

See whats irks me is that creationists have set out to disprove evolution. If successful what does it prove? NOTHING! It's not like there are 2 possiblities and you can eliminate one making the other truth. All it'll mean is that "how did life and everything begin?" question will go back to "Don't know"

Somehow creationists think people will 'switch' to beleiving in creation. But why would they? Theres no indisputable proof of creation.

It's more than a uphill battle from a creationists perspective to convincingly state "we never evolved from apes, thats crazy we're not apelike! Humans were made from a  spare rib, dust, an apple and with the help of a talking snake."

[laurasaur]

um, if it is successfully proven it proves more than nothing, at least you might be able to save yourself anyway im making a big essay for you all

[Black Heart]

um, if it is successfully proven it proves more than nothing, at least you might be able to save yourself anyway im making a big essay for you all

WTF?? If evolution is disproven, that Doesn't make creation anymore valid. Anymore than it makes human sacrifice to the mayan gods any more relevant.

Save myself? As has been pointed out already a lot of evolution supporting scientists & people in general do actually have a faith. How condescending are you?

Theres absolutely NO way that you could tell me ANYTHING about being saved, or afterlife, because neither you, nor ANYONE else has ever experienced & retold it.

I treat all types of spiritualism equally with the contempt it deserves.

[laurasaur]

WTF?? If evolution is disproven, that Doesn't make creation anymore valid. Anymore than it makes human sacrifice to the mayan gods any more relevant.

Save myself? As has been pointed out already a lot of evolution supporting scientists & people in general do actually have a faith. How condescending are you?

Theres absolutely NO way that you could tell me ANYTHING about being saved, or afterlife, because neither you, nor ANYONE else has ever experienced & retold it.

I treat all types of spiritualism equally with the contempt it deserves.

hold up a sec, i was saying that in good humor and not trying to be condescending at all. im not trying to tell you anything, and I believe that everyone can do as they wish, and dont look down on others beliefs at all.

I siad "if it is successfully proven " meaning, if creationism is successfully proven, not if evolution is disproven.

im not thick, you know re read my post

[Black Heart]

sorry 'it' was easy to go either way with. wrong end of stick. is anyone actually working on proving creation? I got the impression they are more interested in disproving evolution. and that creationists themselves beleived creation couldn't be explained due to it being gods 'mojo magic' that  did it all, and we're unable to comprehend it...

We agree then that disproving evolution isn't the same as proving creation?

[Baffled]

Monkeys were the first species in space, which means they must have been superior in intelligence to humans, therefore there's no way humans could have evolved from monkeys, it must of been the other way round.

Sorry youre wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animals_in_space

Fruit flies were the first thing in space, they are the superior beings!

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

1949 - Albert II became the first monkey in space, died on impact after a parachute failure.

1950 - The U.S. launched several other mice in this decade but the first mouse was the only one which survived.

1957 - The first animal in orbit was the Soviet dog Laika. Laika died during the flight.

1958 - with a U.S. Navy trained South American squirrel monkey named "Gordo" onboard. The nosecone recovery parachute failed to operate and "Gordo" did not survive the flight.

Poor animals, so many died.

[Baffled]

Poor animals, so many died.

 
I know, sux eh.. Poor little dog look in that pic..

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

See whats irks me is that creationists have set out to disprove evolution. If successful what does it prove? NOTHING! It's not like there are 2 possiblities and you can eliminate one making the other truth. All it'll mean is that "how did life and everything begin?" question will go back to "Don't know"

What irks me is that although yet not disproven, evolution to this date still does not prove NOTHING either. What does evolution mean?...ok so that happened millions of years ago WHAT ELSE! What does it mean for our purpose on this planet, what does it mean for the point of our success, what does it mean to all the traditions and morals we hve upheld for thousands of years, what does it mean for when we die and we are forgotten? NOTHING, WE ARE USELESS SPECKS OF CARBON IN A GIANT GALACTIC PETREE DISH MULTIPLYING UNTIL WE BREACH OUR CARRYING CAPACITY AND KILL EACHOTHER OR ARE ELIMINATED BY INVADING FUNGI. If evoltion is right then we are no greater than microbes cultured in a lab. We spread, we multiply, we make toxins that kull off the population. Then we get thrown in the laboratory furnace. If you want to believe that...go right ahead.

Theres absolutely NO way that you could tell me ANYTHING about being saved, or afterlife, because neither you, nor ANYONE else has ever experienced & retold it

so what do you think will happen? please describe to me in full detail. I see already your one of those "if you die, you die" people. Im curious to know how that is "valid" as any theory could be.

i dont care how valid anything is in any party i have heard from so far, what i want to know is how it is necassary. The concept of the afterlife is far more necasary than how one can evolve. Because you will never experience evolution but you will experience death. Why do you value the past more than the future? opinions please


Im not a creationist, i dont know their motives. but as i said before religeon doesnt need proof, i dont have to prove it to you. As for evolition i do not mean at all to make you disbeleive it and im sure creationists dont either. Im expressing why i wont beleive it, how that affects you is your fault for provoking me

[Black Heart]

nice post yokel.
I don't have any spiritual answers for you, nor do I seek them. You see if we're just animals with the ability to reason, then theres no afterlife. we die and our conciousness ends, I doubt its painful it's like going to sleep, or being unconcious except we don't wake up.
I don't beleive that whatever you believe in will be what happens to you either. Thats like saying "I want to cross the river." and expecting a bridge to materialise, or the water to disappear. for no other reason than because you 'will' it

Now as to the validity of what I 'think' (ie not what I KNOW.) will happen, basically all life has a similarity it dies, sentient or not. 2000 years ago and further there were a vast selection of beleifs about afterlife / underworlds, passing over, and they are all equally imaginative, reincarnation / the abyss, paradise. all awe inspiring and wonderful. christianity is simply the beleif we are exposed to firstly, and continuously, its dominate in the age we live, thats all that makes it your choice, its popular. The many flaws of the different current religions keeps them evolving and changing, especially due to the ever increasing knowledge we gain through science.

I disagree with you about the motives of creationists, they want religion taught rather than science, on the subject of 'how life started.' They do attack evolution. Its not entirely bad, actually there are good aspects, people should question most things and inquire as to what makes them valid, or not. the bad aspect (IMO) is when fiction & fabrication are told as truth, both creation & evolution camps are guilty of that.
I like rationality and logic, I don't seek to understand everything, sure I learn stuff everyday, but I'm not overly concerned as to where we came from, or caught up in the past. I'm sure it'd be nice to know, but as you said its not necessary to know.

so to summarise
Yes I think we just die. we certainly wont be eternal, as nothing we know of is.
Evolution could well be the biggest crock of scientific shit ever to dupe a modern population en mass, makes no difference really.
My opinion of modern religion is that theres no major difference between today faiths than those of people who existed millenia before us. they are all as far fetched as one another and despite having hundreds if not thousands of years to be developed still have Enormous unanswerable (to any satisfactory level ie "god is mysterious", is unsatisfasctory to me.) aspects.

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

this thread is starting to get somewhere

now you see, evolution was only created to explain what happened in our past. Based on what we dont know. Beleive it or not, evolution and its implications are nothing new to the world. There has always been counterbeleifs throughout history. And it will keep going, noones questions will be answered. Its no different to what the romans believed and it will meet the same fate. Thats is a prediction. We think its new and so we accept it as a blessing, sadly it offers nothing in return and its the cause of increased crime, suicides, divorces and lowered test scores since 1961 all because it doesnt provide a purpose, a purpose that by default we fill in ourselves, try as you might you just cant make yourself a perfect purpose that wont screw anyone else over. So far all bad things (apart from most natural things) is solemly our own to blame.

Althought this is not new either, i point the finger at evolution for helping it across the street

Religeon is not an alternate theory to evolution, not only does it involve the past, it in fact explains everything in life. What i beleive in means there is a reason why i should be considerate towards others, why i should avoid sexism, racism and nationalism and not judge others by one person. It explains why bad things happen even to good people, it explains why i should work and what to expect for it. It explains what to look forward to and what hope i should behold. it even tells me to have fun at least once everyday. And i have benifited from this advice, not just spiritualy but emotionally and constructivly. The same goes for millions of people.

but yes Black Heart, when you die you will die and because nothing is eternal as you say it is, i guess nothing will happen since time and occurance itself will one day end. You will be doing nothing forever? i guess then there is eternity and that is you spending eternity doing.....nothing....your just dead, you dont hear nor feel nor touch or smell you wont dream either because your dead, period. Makes life no matter what you do in it seem wasted methinks, all we do just leads right to this: eternal boredom.

notice people who are about to die never say "im about to go to nothing, see you there" they cant stand to think everything ends in 10 seconds, how sad...very sad where they are going, they arent even going to see their past relatives there.

Now people are going to say "be serious yokel you dont know if thats gonna happen"

no i dont, for all i know something will happen. And if something does happen then i better be prepared for it, just as you prepare for an expidition where you never know what will happen. Theres one place il be screwed if i go to, and another where i get to lie in a deck chair all day. Who knows if il get to either of them? one thing for sure is someplace is better than noplace.

In conclusion
i think creationist are being zealous if they want creation taught in schools, but if they know as much as i do, they are fools to let evolution remain taught. I think people should be given benifit of the choice despite who has proof and who doesnt. after all, it will all be over soon.

It depends what you think will happen in the unknown, will you go someplace worthwhile? a new beginning? if so then wou may want to think spiritually and you might just get what you earned

But if you think otherwise then go live out your life and whatever because either way thats all your going to get while everyone else floats to freedom

[Black Heart]

err, evolution still could be true. in which case its not invalid. and the fact it doesn't teach people how to act or behave isn't a reason to ignore it.

Do you realise how many generations of people have lived repeating the theme 'the end is near?' Theres nothing to say its near, it could be 4000 years away, or 30 minutes away.

And as for the whole 'nothing' scenario. we'd be utterly unable  to experience it. feelings & emotions (ie love / hate, blah blah are a result of being alive, brain - meat activity...) not to mention not having any sensory bits of our body... did I mention you'd be dead? ie ceased to live / ceased to function. (sends the whole hell concept straight to ...) Tell me whats a lake of fire & brimstone supposed to feel like to 'entity' without a body? without any nerve endings to feel pain?

So i stay firmly in the we die. and we stop experiencing stuff right then, and we are soon forgotten.

Meaning of life? theres no meaning. it simply is.

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

actualy lack of benifit is a good reason to ingnore something, why make use of the useless? but its not like i totaly ignore every sign in front of me that relates to evolution. Im well aware of the facts but theres far more im concerned about. The same does not go for others.

Im even more than aware of the knowledge of our impeding end, all i will say is that its near just like everyone else has over the centuries, go figure it out for yourself.

And your still right about your nothing scenario, of course you wont feel nothing whatsoever. That includes fire and brimstone, wich by the way is only a mere speculation of hell. Allow me to tell you a little about hell:

The real hell according to people who have studied past and present interpretations made the various ancient religeons is very much like that "nothing" you dear so hope to end up in. If God intended you to suffer forever then he cant be any better than us so the concept of a painful hell is a scare made up by someone and it built up over the years, god is fair; if you dont want anything to do with him that fine, he will simply send you someplace where you wont even meet him..or anyone else. You just cant be in heaven without being with god. thats why there is hell. hell is like an infinite rubbish bin, where you are simply discarded and left with only yourself to bear with. God logically cant hurt us.

Just like in your idea of the afterlife you will be nothing in hell, its very much likely that they are the same place. I guess it makes sence then, its the simplest interpretation of the afterlife and how we would rather see it fit and so you are sent there without a doubt therefor the concept of hell isnt ungodly at all, hes actualy being nice to you.

Then again nerve endings and receptor cells are only a concept of the mortal world, in the 5th dimention anything can happen...including getting burnt with fire, who knows.

and finaly would you like to know the meaning of life? i can tell you.

[deamora]

I repeat evolution is a theory - creationism is a parable.Yes the world will end - a star such as ours has a projected life span of 10 billion years ( give or take ), best estimates put the planet/solar system at around 4.5 - 4.6 billion years old that means that in 5.5 to 5.6 billion years our solar sytem will cease to exist - 'hey sue me if i'm wrong' (Steven Hawkens)

Basically to belief in an after life is a matter of faith u either do or don't believe it.

[- NicK -]

There are also the poor few who aren't able to believe it.

[bloodyYOKEL-NZ]

I repeat evolution is a theory - creationism is a parable.Yes the world will end - a star such as ours has a projected life span of 10 billion years ( give or take ), best estimates put the planet/solar system at around 4.5 - 4.6 billion years old that means that in 5.5 to 5.6 billion years our solar sytem will cease to exist - 'hey sue me if i'm wrong' (Steven Hawkens)

Basically to belief in an after life is a matter of faith u either do or don't believe it.

Its 4.5 billion at the latest. Even it was sooner than that theres nothing you can do but keep living life as you normally would. Best way to handle the end is to not know what hit you. Thats why they only say its near but never admit when, not just because they could always be wrong but also so that chaos doesnt get a stronger grip on the world.

BTW there has been alot of predictions of exactly when the world will end lately, most of those final dates was last year. oh dear i missed it! :bounce: . Seems people have gotten the false image that the end happens quickly, like overnight.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

The end of the world has already started, most people just cant see it yet.