Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Tiwaking!]

I do, have read it, enjoyed it and recommend it to others as well.

I also recommend "Scientist confront creationism: Intelligent design and beyond."
Reading it atm and it's worth following.

You should read "Dancing masters of Wu-Li"

Its Quantum Mechanics from a Zen-Buddhist perspective. Like "Zen and the art of motorcycle repair"

[Slim]

This whole argument is flawed.  You have all made several major assumptions:

-Disproving aspects of the Bible disproves God.

-Why must Creationism and Evolution be polar opposites?.  

Even at the height of my Christian days I never believed God created the earth in 6 days.  And as for those nut job American creationists - well they're free game, along with Destiny Church.

And here is the kicker.  You will never, ever be able to disprove the existence of God using science.  Christians will never ever be able to prove the existence of God using science.  I don't even know why some of them bother trying.  Christianity is not science.  Worship is not science, prayer is not science, church is not science.  You are trying to reduce something that is very spiritual into science, and you can't.

Both Christians and Atheists are debating a point that can't be won.  It doesn't come down to what you can prove or disprove, but what you believe.  

From an atheist point of view, I bet it confuses the shit out of you why Christians even bother being Christians.  There is an overwhelming load of information disproving many aspects of the bible.  But until you have stood in a room with 300 friends praising God you will never understand why Christians are believing.

This thread is offensive.  Any Christian who posts in here is expected to come up with something that is impossible to produce:  Evidence proving the existence of God.  And when they can't, they get torn to shreds.  The entire foundation of Christianity is Faith.  Faith is believing in something without evidence.  Yet you all spit on faith.  How can faith stand up to your mighty scientific reckoning?  

I find this thread offensive, because the very large majority of the posters are committing precisely the same crime you are accusing Christians of, namely intolerance.  You are forcing your views and tearing anyone who differs to pieces.

I find the title of this thread offensive.  Why the fuck should it be a battle.  Christians and non-believers have been battling for millenniums. Now we are supposed to be in a time of reason and freedom, and here we are battling again.

I mean FFS, every post in this thread is a waste.  " I don't believe in God.... I'm going to go play some computer."  or "Well I do believe in Jesus... I'm going to go play some computer, have a shower and then go to Church."

Get over it!  Do your own thing and who cares what everyone else is doing.

[KiLL3r]

And here is the kicker.  You will never, ever be able to disprove the existence of God using science.

maybe not disprove the existence of a god or universe creator. But it sure can disprove the christian god and already has. The only evidence of the christian god comes from the bible which as we have said is the most innacurate book every written.

[Slim]

You're missing the point!  There is no SCIENTIFIC Proof of the existence of God.  But there doesn't have to be.  You are completely and absolutely ignoring the spirituality of it.  Christians don't believe in God based on facts or theories, but on how they feel.  You just can't comprehend that, and I pity you for it.

[KiLL3r]

You're missing the point!  There is no SCIENTIFIC Proof of the existence of God.  But there doesn't have to be.  You are completely and absolutely ignoring the spirituality of it.  Christians don't believe in God based on facts or theories, but on how they feel.  You just can't comprehend that, and I pity you for it.

so if no one had ever created the idea of god then they would still believe in him?  Of course not there has to be an idea there for someone to believe in it.

Spirituality is nothing but ignorance

[Slim]

And that is why I will not post in this thread.  How can you debate someone so ignorant and so arrogant.

"Spirituality is nothing but ignorance."

The irony of this statement is exceptional.

Killer, no one will ever win in this thread because people like you are so utterly entrenched in your narrow opinions.

[spliff]

Stop trying to sound so smart Killer, it's not working, and making completely false statements is not doing anyone any good

[KiLL3r]

And that is why I will not post in this thread.  How can you debate someone so ignorant and so arrogant.

"Spirituality is nothing but ignorance."

The irony of this statement is exceptional.

Killer, no one will ever win in this thread because people like you are so utterly entrenched in your narrow opinions.

Maybe you don't get the purpose of this thread. Its to debate the difference between science and religion. No one is trying to win anything.

You basically entered this thread and told everyone thats posted in here that they are wrong. All you posts so far have been nothing but hypocritical.

[Slim]

But you are not debating.  Christians can't counter scientific arguments with their own.  Christianity is not founded on science.  I then bring to the table the idea of spirituality, the very core of Christianity, and you cool it ignorance.

This whole thread is just a Christian bashing exercise.

[cobra]

But you are not debating.  Christians can't counter scientific arguments with their own.  Christianity is not founded on science.  I then bring to the table the idea of spirituality, the very core of Christianity, and you cool it ignorance.

This whole thread is just a Christian bashing exercise.

the core of christianity is power and money - spirituality is what they sell

it's not christian bashing - science is anti ignorant, this is ignorance bashing - believing that humans were created is ignorant

[Bounty Hunter]

if you asked an animal if it believed there is a god, what would it say?

especially a serpent.

[qwerty4me]

I'm not sure if I'd use the term ignorant, because no one really does know. I would say, that thinking humans were created by a 'higher' being to be irrational.

[DDM]

This thread was probably made after some christians knocked on a door at 6am asking for more minions to join the christian army.

I think it's time all the atheists went door knocking.

[Slim]

the core of christianity is power and money - spirituality is what they sell

it's not christian bashing - science is anti ignorant, this is ignorance bashing - believing that humans were created is ignorant

That is Christian Bashing right there!!!  FFS People don't even know when they are doing it anymore.

And science is not anti-ignorance.  90% of it is educated guessing and hypothesis.

[philo-sofa]

and basically I think atheism is a ridiculous stance to take on the issue, if one lives there life by logic then the only logical position to take would be that of an agnostic

I know this is taking it back a while but...

I disagree with you.  Without wanting to be rude to religions I regard the idea of a God as being quite ridiculous.  I find no logical evidence or reason to believe in Him/Her.  How then am I not an Agnostic?  Well, I supposed technically Like Ngat Grim I am, I must accept the possibility of His/Her existence.  It's supremely unlikely in my estimation, roughly on the level of there being pink elephants cavorting under the ocean - even after all this time trying to be open to the possibility.  Do I call myself 'undecided' on the issue of there being pink elephants in the ocean because I can't disprove it?  On the issue of society being kept down by shape-shifting lizards so that they can suck on humanity's negative vibes, on other things I am pretty damned certain of but cannot disprove?  No!  Then why must I be an 'Agnostic'?  Really it's a situation which most people are in when they believe anything - can they utterly guarantee that it's true?  

No, I'm an Atheist, because I feel the balance of probabilities are so off, not because I'm being illogical.

[cobra]

And science is not anti-ignorance.  90% of it is educated guessing and hypothesis.

once again christian ignorance - i can't back up my views with evidence - can you back this up?

[Slim]

You've assumed I'm a Christian.

[krasher]

I know this is taking it back a while but...

I disagree with you.  Without wanting to be rude to religions I regard the idea of a God as being quite ridiculous.  I find no logical evidence or reason to believe in Him/Her.  How then am I not an Agnostic?  Well, I supposed technically Like Ngat Grim I am, I must accept the possibility of His/Her existence.  It's supremely unlikely in my estimation, roughly on the level of there being pink elephants cavorting under the ocean - even after all this time trying to be open to the possibility.  Do I call myself 'undecided' on the issue of there being pink elephants in the ocean because I can't disprove it?  On the issue of society being kept down by shape-shifting lizards so that they can suck on humanity's negative vibes, on other things I am pretty damned certain of but cannot disprove?  No!  Then why must I be an 'Agnostic'?  Really it's a situation which most people are in when they believe anything - can they utterly guarantee that it's true?  

No, I'm an Atheist, because I feel the balance of probabilities are so off, not because I'm being illogical.

FYI /\ is the way to respectfully disagree with the existence of a God. As a believer I do not find that offensive. It is written in a way that is not attacking and actually provokes thought instead of just insulting.

Thanks Philo for your tone and patience in this thread. Your contributions are more than welcome.

[cobra]

You've assumed I'm a Christian.

Even at the height of my Christian days ....

what you said smacks of christian ignorance, if you are no longer christian your "90% of science is made up" sounds like you got brainwashed good and proper

[Slim]

I was a Christian, now I am not.

What about black holes?

The big bang?

Evolution?

Theory of relativity?

They are theories based on educated guesses.  We do not know for sure how they happened.  But Christians aren't to concerned with how they happened, but with why.  When I was a Christian, I believed evolution occurred.  I simply believed it wasn't random.  The statistical chances of evolution happening the way it did is beyond comprehension.  So it begged the question, and is still a question I ask myself, do we exist because of a natural statistical fluke, or because evolution is simply a tool of a higher power?  In my mind science was simply a way for man to try and understand the complex workings of God.

[philo-sofa]

FYI /\ is the way to respectfully disagree with the existence of a God. As a believer I do not find that offensive. It is written in a way that is not attacking and actually provokes thought instead of just insulting.

Thanks Philo for your tone and patience in this thread. Your contributions are more than welcome.

Thnx Krasher.  Have to agree that this thread could benefit from less attacking and more discussing (albeit that it is entertaining at times ).

[krasher]

what you said smacks of christian ignorance, if you are no longer christian your "90% of science is made up" sounds like you got brainwashed good and proper

There are many unanswered questions in life that science has not been able to answer. One of them is....how did you come to believe that you know everything?

That is the danger of science IMO. Many people have been tricked into thinking that they know something as fact when it is in fact, still only theory. At least I know that what I 'know' is based on faith.

[cobra]

 When I was a Christian, I believed evolution occurred.  I simply believed it wasn't random.  The statistical chances of evolution happening the way it did is beyond comprehension.  So it begged the question, and is still a question I ask myself, do we exist because of a natural statistical fluke, or because evolution is simply a tool of a higher power?  In my mind science was simply a way for man to try and understand the complex workings of God.

evolution is not random

why do you need a higher power in all this?

There are many unanswered questions in life that science has not been able to answer. One of them is....how did you come to believe that you know everything?

i have never claimed to know everything - unlike you i seek knowledge not the whole "god did it now, i know everything"

That is the danger of science IMO. Many people have been tricked into thinking that they know something as fact when it is in fact, still only theory. At least I know that what I 'know' is based on faith.

the danger of science? lol - better this then living in an intellectual dark age

[spliff]

evolution is not random

uuh, according to scientists and their research, mostly yes it is.

sorry, but I have come to the conclusion that you do not know wtf you are on about.

Go away and do some more research into what you're talking about then come back

[spliff]

evolution is not random

according to scientists and their research, a lot of evolution is indeed random.

Go away and do some more research into what you're talking about then come back