Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Ngati_Grim]

I meant that it doesn't affect me, as in:
a) I'm not gay
b) I don't currently knowingly have any friends who are gay
c) I don't knowingly hang out in places where there are a high number of gay people

edited for truth

You know, for a bunch of evolutionists, you seem to be a little down on the main way in which species advance themselves (pro-creation).

Hermaphrodism?
I'm not down on sex as a form of reproduction, but by far the most common (meaning the method employed by the largest number of organisms) for of reproduction is asexual.

[KiLL3r]

Why do we have holidays (even the word!) for christmas and easter, that are enforced?

not to mention you are forced to close your shop on easter

[Ngati_Grim]

they're not enforced, no-one's forcing you to celebrate christmas or easter :/

but I can't buy things on those days, so it is enforced

[DDM]

Most hermaphrodites start life as one sex and become the other sex gradually. This means they still mate with the opposite sex.

Even simultaneous hermaphrodites (both sexes at once) mate with another of the species. There are some species that are self fertlising though, like the banana slug which will only self fertilise if absolutely nessesary.

[KiLL3r]

edited for truth





Hermaphrodism?
I'm not down on sex as a form of reproduction, but by far the most common (meaning the method employed by the largest number of organisms) for of reproduction is asexual.

here you go flea this might blow your mind (or maybe not

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis

[Ngati_Grim]

Most hermaphrodites start life as one sex and become the other sex gradually. This means they still mate with the opposite sex.

Even simultaneous hermaphrodites (both sexes at once) mate with another of the species. There are some species that are self fertlising though, like the banana slug which will only self fertilise if absolutely nessesary.

fair call...

but, cell division is still the most common form of reproduction

[krasher]

fair call...

but, cell division is still the most common form of reproduction

Splitting hairs now aren't we???

[Metal-Fingerz]

the negative views have had a negative impact on my homosexual friend, not krasher directly

his normalising hatred towards homosexuality creates an environment where more extreme hatred is acceptable



this why i hate buddhists, so fucken reasonable (j/k)

even said without religion homosexuality is still going to take some time before its seen as a normal thing or acceptable... minority's will always get grief just because they are different.

 oddly why is it male homosexuals more so frowned upon than females... thats what pisses me off.... guys are male homophobic yet when two girls hook up.... it's like wooooah check that it.... really fucks me just shows how ill founded these thoughts are and are based on absolutely no logical reasoning

[ThaFleastyler]

edited for truth

I believe that in skeptical circles your falsely editing my comment, in order to make me look worse, is called an "ad hominem" attack. GG mate :disappoin

so everything male on female is natural?

Not just male on female, but anything that goes towards pro-creation and advancement of the species. Homosexual couples cannot pro-create. As far as I understand it, evolution requires pro-creation in whatever form it takes in order for the species to advance. Or am I wrong?

[DDM]

Maybe because when a guy thinks about a male gay couple he is disgusted because theres penis all round. A female gay couple is different because its just a woman (which men love) paired with another woman (which men love).

But hey, if you're into hating gay couples male or female equally, all the best to ya!

[cobra]

Not just male on female, but anything that goes towards pro-creation and advancement of the species. Homosexual couples cannot pro-create. As far as I understand it, evolution requires pro-creation in whatever form it takes in order for the species to advance. Or am I wrong?

you are wrong. for instance the majority of ants and bees dont procreate but the ants/bee work for the breeding ants/bees who share genetic material with them - homosexuality is evolutionary beneficial for cutting down competition for females - evidence for this would be there is a statistical significant increase in homosexuality in men who have an older brother, so the younger brother will be increasing the chances that the older brother (who shares 50% of the genes) will breed

[Ngati_Grim]

Splitting hairs now aren't we???

no, not at all.

Please explain?

oh....haha


Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaFleastyler View Post
I believe that in skeptical circles your falsely editing my comment, in order to make me look worse, is called an "ad hominem" attack. GG mate

I wasn't trying to make you look worse. I was just trying to point out that you don't know for sure about the sexual orientation of those around you.

[Ngati_Grim]

I believe that in skeptical circles your falsely editing my comment, in order to make me look worse, is called an "ad hominem" attack. GG mate :disappoin

I wasn't trying to make you look worse. I was just trying to point out that you don't know for sure about the sexual orientation of those around you.

[Menial]

no, not at all.

Please explain?

it was a joke...

[mish]

So you don't hang out where gay people are.....would you move out if a gay couple moved in next door? (I only say this because there is a gay couple living next door to me).

Failing that, what would your reaction be? Love thy neighbor?

[Dr Woomanchu]

you are wrong. for instance the majority of ants and bees dont procreate but the ants/bee work for the breeding ants/bees who share genetic material with them - homosexuality is evolutionary beneficial for cutting down competition for females - evidence for this would be there is a statistical significant increase in homosexuality in men who have an older brother, so the younger brother will be increasing the chances that the older brother (who shares 50% of the genes) will breed

Humans are tribal. Having a group of males bonded to the tribe but NOT to their own specific offspring would confer a significant evolutionary advantage to the tribe. In prehistoric cultures close to all the tribe would be genetically linked. There's speculation that  this  is where the human propensity for altruism fits as well. If you die for your tribe, your genes are still propogated

There is evidence, although far from conclusive, that sexual orientation is influenced strongly by the hormones the fetus is exposed to in the womb. This ties in well with the stats that homosexual men are rarely the oldest child. The oldest child will pass on the genes. Having subsequent offspring free to aid in protecting those offspring would be strongly reinforced in an evolutionary sense

[ThaFleastyler]

So you don't hang out where gay people are.....would you move out if a gay couple moved in next door? (I only say this because there is a gay couple living next door to me).

Failing that, what would your reaction be? Love thy neighbor?

Of course I wouldn't move out, what a ridiculous question to ask.

As I've said, its not like I'm against homosexuals, I'm just not one. If homosexuals moved in next door to my house, I'd treat them the same as I treat my current neighbours (a married couple with one child).

How do you treat the gay couple next door to you? You invite them over for dinner? Cruise down and watch movies with them occasionally? Help them with renovations to their house? The kind of "get to know the neighbours" behaviour is rare in our current society as it is.

[mish]

How do you treat the gay couple next door to you? You invite them over for dinner? Cruise down and watch movies with them occasionally? Help them with renovations to their house? The kind of "get to know the neighbours" behaviour is rare in our current society as it is.

I feed their cat lolz.
Neighbors don't help each other like they used to, thats for sure, except perhaps when its time to build a fence between them.

[ThaFleastyler]

Neighbors don't help each other like they used to, thats for sure, except perhaps when its time to build a fence between them.

But thats not because of sexuality. Thats because of an inherent mistrust and suspicion that people tend to have about other people.

I remember when I was 7 years old growing up in Ireland - I knew every kid in the neighbourhood and we hung out together every day, played together in the properties around the place, and so on. My daughter is now 7, and she doesn't play with any kids in my street, or her street (she lives with her mum) - indeed, if she wants to ride her scooter up and down, I stand out on the street with her and watch.

The deterioration of the 'family' aspect of society is sad.

[Metal-Fingerz]

But thats not because of sexuality. Thats because of an inherent mistrust and suspicion that people tend to have about other people.

I remember when I was 7 years old growing up in Ireland - I knew every kid in the neighbourhood and we hung out together every day, played together in the properties around the place, and so on. My daughter is now 7, and she doesn't play with any kids in my street, or her street (she lives with her mum) - indeed, if she wants to ride her scooter up and down, I stand out on the street with her and watch.

The deterioration of the 'family' aspect of society is sad.

that is so true i remember as a kid (not that long ago) when everyday we would be out in the street playing cricket or riding bikes/skateboards or just hanging around,  nowdays you dont see that much you can go out to the hutt and see some little 12 y/o trying on some thong going do i look hot in this (no i havent literally seen this and no im not perverted)

this has changed quite drastically i remember we use to leave the front door of the house wide open and never feel threatened of any break ins or anything nowadays there is no way in hell this would happen..... some little shits tagged on the side of my apartment last week.

secondly kids nowadays have are less social, computers and consoles and tv's now keep kids indoors too

btw cartoons suck now days bring back toxic crusaders

[Ngati_Grim]

We used to go into Timaru from Geraldine, for the day, and leave the house unlocked. My parents would have no qualms about letting me and my mates go for bike rides around the countryside or go and play war in Talbot Forest.

 Even now the back door of my house is unlocked all the time. However, we have two rather large dogs so good luck to anybody who tries. Besides, because I'm a Geologist and collect rocks and fossils, they are generally hard to move or not that sought after amongst the general public! Burglars tend not to target books either, or records (lps) for that matter as can be evidenced by when I was living alone and got burgled, they stole my stereo but left the turntable, took some cds, but left the records and didn't even touch my rocks or books!


now: http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/mg19726451.700-evolution-what-missing-link.html

Interesting article, not complete online unless you subscribe, but it is available in bookshops or the library

http://faculty.oxy.edu/prothero/ is the link to the author.

A few quotes from the article:

"Evidence of evolution in the fossil record has vastly increased since then. Yet the idea still persists that the fossil record is too patchy to provide good evidence of evolution. One reason for this is the influence of creationism. Foremost amongst their tactics is to distort or ignore the evidence for evolution; a favourite lie is 'there are no transitional fossils'.
This is manifestly untrue. We now have abundant evidence for how all the major groups of animals are related, much of it in the form of excellent transitional fossils."

"We don't just have a good record of the evolution of early mammals. The entire evolutionary history of mammals is probably better known than that of any group of vertebrates."

"Creationists simply have no answer to such irrefutable evidence. Examples such as these are conclusive proof that evolution has occurred, and is still occurring."

It's an interesting wee article, short and to the point, with 10 examples of evolutionary change.

[Tiwaking!]

I was thinking yesterday about how I could both simplify and clarify the Epicurius and 'The problem with evil' argument. If you are not familiar with it, it goes like this:

Epicurus taught this incredibly simple, yet ultimately infallible logic:
"If God is all powerful, why does God allow evil to exist? If God is willing, but unable to prevent evil, then God is not all powerful. If God is able, but unwilling then God is malevolent. If God is unwilling and unable then Why call him God?"

Although the Wiki goes on abit(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil) You could reduce this further with a simple logic flow diagram:

1. Does God exist? Yes/No/Maybe
If 1. NO then END
If 1. YES then Goto 2
If 1. Maybe then 2, 3, 4, 5 count as Maybe. END
2. Is God omnipotent? Yes/No
3. Is God omniscient? Yes/No
4. Is God omnipresent? Yes/No
5. Is God benevolent? Yes/No

Obviously Agnostics will say 'Maybe' to question 1, Atheists answer 'No' and Deists/Theists answer 'Yes'.

Now, the interesting thing is answering NO to any of the remaining questions(except for 5) technically qualifies you as a DEIST, since the 2-4 are the generally accepted theological powers demonstrated by what could be considered a deity.

[psyche]

what's also interesting is if you answer Yes or No to #1 your answer is based entirely on your own personal belief, or faith, since it cannot be proven either way

[psyche]

what's also interesting is if you answer Yes or No to #1 your answer is based entirely on your own personal belief, or faith, since it cannot be proven either way

[Tiwaking!]

what's also interesting is if you answer Yes or No to #1 your answer is based entirely on your own personal belief, or faith, since it cannot be proven either way

What is more interesting is if you answer 'maybe' to #1

Then you get picked on by everyone