You work on proving god exists, and we'll work on proving multiple-universes exist. I'll give you a race - GO!
And the most interesting part is that I do not believe in a multiverse. And neither do physicists. We believe that there is a series of mathematical masturbations that explain how such a multiverse could work (ref: M-Theory), but this is hardly proven to be real. Potentially real, mathematics is after all the language of the universe. So it has some credit.
Now you on the other hand seem to think that this "God" thing is very real.
despite only having cloudy logic
quotes taken out of context
and a mountain of speculation.
Now, isn't that odd?
You still can't tell me that ordered structure, intelligence and information can arise from a series of seemingly random and completely coincidental processes which you seem to be postulating.
To ride on Cobra's coattails,
these processes are not random
Even if such processes that lead to the structure and perception of design that we witness in the universe are not completely random, it is very difficult to make the assumption that it could arise from a series of highly unlikely "coincidences". Randomness or not, evolution can not solely explain the (existence of) or the finely-tuned constants that govern everything in the universe.
you were going so well convincing me that the church was more tolerant than i thought, but before i can by it completely i just need to be assured that the church doesn't organise intolerance campaigns - you probably just missed my question, so i will ask it again, the church doesn't have any issues with homosexuals, apart from the sin but we all sin and are sinners, as long as they ask for forgiveness the church is cool - given that it would not make sense for the church to try to stop these people having equal human rights therefore the church wouldn't be involved in campaigns against the civil union bill or be opposed to same sex couples raising children - is that correct, if not can you explain where my logic breaks down
cheers, your friend and mentorCobra
To ride on Cobra's coattails, I'd still like to know if serial rapists who ask for forgiveness get into heaven, despite continuing to rape.
Depends on the definition of heaven On a more serious note, this all comes down to the idea of salvation - if you genuinely accept God and Jesus, and genuinely ask for forgiveness for your sins, you become 'saved' - but you can lose that salvation by continuing to sin after the fact. I don't know exactly how it all works; if the last thing he does before death is rape someone, I would say no, but if the last thing he does is geneuinely ask for salvation and genuinely ask for forgiveness, then I would think yes. My feeling would be the answer is no if the serial rapist continues to rape.
do you believe the above to be fact though? and if so do these facts change the way you might behave to other people or make decisions in your present life?
Even if such processes that lead to the structure and perception of design that we witness in the universe are not completely random, it is very difficult to make the assumption that it could arise from a series of highly unlikely "coincidences". Randomness or not, evolution can not solely explain (the existence of) or the finely-tuned constants that govern everything in the universe.
Church policy or opinion on these things is such that if you hear a preacher or pastor state their stance on the matter, thats really only their stance and is not reflective of their church as a whole, let alone the institution of Christianity. If you went around a church and asked the people there their opinions on a bunch of stuff, it would be all over the place since Christian people are allowed to be free thinking, and exercise that right, the same as nonChristian people do.
What you don't seem to understand is that your entire premise is wrong.
You keep going on about what a coincidence it is that the universe exists and that we are here to witness it. It simply isn't. If the universe didn't exist as it currently does we wouldn't be here, something else would.
An argument frequently used by ID thickos is the idea that if the universe is random, then why couldn't a tornado in a junkyard put together a jumbo jet. And the answer that is given every single time this is trotted out is that it would inevitably occur if the junkyard was the size of the universe and several billion years passed.
Sidenote: Getting all of your arguments from Wikipedia's list of ID "theories" is a great way to fail. Keep it up, the laughter will only get louder.
And I do believe that if I sin, there are repercussions (call it karma).
Um, no. This is a failure to understand the fine tuning argument on your behalf. If any of the physical constants of nature were even SLIGHTLY different by a fraction of a percent, NOTHING would be here, there would be no planets, no solar systems, no complexity, no evolution, no life.
The fine-tuning argument is accepted by the majority of scientists worldwide, it is not a proponent of Intelligent Design, it is a scientific principle.
Karma is a concept from Eastern religious and philosophical traditions. How does this fit into the 'model' of Christianity?....and if karma can be appropriated, why not the whole pantheon?
You honestly believe a tornado could form a complex structure as a jumbo jet? How exactly do you come to this conclusion?.
Even the planets 'wander' on their orbit by more than a fraction of a percent..How does this reconcile with the notion that you posted above?
See that's another thing I find weird about church goers, they just twist the bible to suit, all these hundreds of churches all making up their own set of rules. Christianity is a shambles. They are all yelling and preaching - "our way is the right way, we follow the true voice of god!"And nobody can say they are wrong because the bible has be translated into so many different ways. It's such a mess, would be nice if they all could agree on one way to bother god.
I met a girl on the internet once. She was great, you know - smart, sexy, uninhibited...Of course when we finally arranged to meet she turned out to be a 13 year old paraplegic boy....I\'m not gonna lie, the sex was disappointing....
And the evidence seems to be extremely compelling to the majority of scientists, so if it's good enough for them then it is good enough for me.
The difference between churches isn't really as wide as people would have you think.
Yeah I always wondered about that. You have all these religions who think they know what's going on. What's flea's stance on the other religions around? Do you think they are all misguided?
What about religions? Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Judaism, Bahá'í Faith, Confucianism, Jainism, Shinto.they all have millions of followers and all believe in their religion. What do you think of who they worship and what they believe in? Do you respect their beliefs or think they are nutty for worshiping another deity?
I also find myself intrigued by the idea that everyone has experienced the same God,
