Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline Turkish

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Quote from: philo-sofa;784123
I'll explain it more simply - enjoy your second red square of many you offensively stupid child born of the love between a brother and sister.


I think I hit a nerve. Actually, nothing I have posted has anything to do with creationism sorry. So try again Captain Assmaster.

It seems when you are incapable of replying with an intelligent argument, it's better to resort to overreacting, namecalling and giving neg rep. It's hilarious how seriously you people take your little squares.

You remind me of this:

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1997/amazingretardedathiestzw3.jpg

Reply #5825 Posted: August 27, 2008, 01:37:05 pm

Offline philo-sofa

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Quote from: Turkish;784129
I think I hit a nerve. Actually, nothing I have posted has anything to do with creationism sorry. So try again Captain Assmaster.

It seems when you are incapable of replying with an intelligent argument, it's better to resort to overreacting, namecalling and giving neg rep. It's hilarious how seriously you people take your little squares.

You remind me of this:

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1997/amazingretardedathiestzw3.jpg


You never said anything to hit a nerve other than obviously being you, being so obviously uninformed and... well yes, you did in fact hit a nerve.  Unfortunately it is the one primed to sense utter morons - and it's one that has a quick path to my 'express abject disgust @ arrogant retards' center of the brain.

Psyche, I know it's you... yes you have posted creationist BS.  So you're lying, which again, is a sin.

I have posted countless intelligent, polite responses to your dribble, this is because I am capable of posting intelligent responses, however I literally cannot stand whatever mishmash of psychoses and intentions make you up.

It's you who's had a nerve hit, and it's one to do with not being able to even imply your God exists. You don't even understand the arguments of the people who are on your side properly. Inbred moron that you are.

Reply #5826 Posted: August 27, 2008, 01:43:01 pm

Offline Ngati_Grim

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Quote from: Arnifix;784127
Oh fuck, now I'm hungry.

Just don't buy the lemongrass chicken from the hang seng food bar at canty uni (well, I know you can't, but if you're ever down these ways)...it was the driest, most horribly tough bit of chook ever...


And turkish: it isn't 'widely-accepted' in the scientific community. It is accepted by a few (numerically speaking) who are on the fringes. If it was widely accepted, there would be peer-reviewed articles about it in scientific journals, rather than op-ed shadowmonsters in cranky websites/journals...think about it...no, really think about it...do some proper research about it and then get back to us....

by the way, thanks for posting your sources (at least some of them)...it's a start...though those sources are not much use for scientific enquiry...a theologian was one author

Yes, I'm hard to satisfy, but I'm easy to please!

Reply #5827 Posted: August 27, 2008, 01:46:28 pm
Recycle your red poppies, paint them white, and wear them throughout the year.

Offline Retardobot

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I just had a baked Panini with processed cheese, ham and a smearing of a mustardy tasting horse raddish paste from Massey Uni.

Sounds like you got the better deal.

Reply #5828 Posted: August 27, 2008, 01:53:17 pm



Offline Turkish

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Quote from: philo-sofa;784136
.


Added to ignore.

Take your medication buddy.

Reply #5829 Posted: August 27, 2008, 01:54:09 pm

Offline Black Heart

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Psyche, you really funny. know why?

You ridicule Richard Dawkins, for his stupid 'aliens may possibly have made it all' statement. when thats the exact thing you're proposing. that something intelligent and not human created everything, and finely tuned it.

and you consistently ignore the fact he said it was a possibility, and not one he or anyone he knows believes in.


Do you comprehend what that means? Richard Dawkins doesn't believe in aliens, or spaghetti monsters, or finely tuned popeye spinach.

aren't you banned? WTF!

Reply #5830 Posted: August 27, 2008, 01:54:45 pm

Offline Arnifix

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Ngati, I'll ring my boss and tell him not to get one, since he's there atm observing a course.

Reply #5831 Posted: August 27, 2008, 01:57:37 pm

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline Ngati_Grim

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Do it!

Tell him that 'spice traders' is much better!



What Blackheart said.

Reply #5832 Posted: August 27, 2008, 01:59:37 pm
Recycle your red poppies, paint them white, and wear them throughout the year.

Offline Turkish

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Quote from: Black Heart;784150
Psyche, you really funny. know why?

You ridicule Richard Dawkins, for his stupid 'aliens may possibly have made it all' statement. when thats the exact thing you're proposing. that something intelligent and not human created everything, and finely tuned it.


I'm not proposing anything. And definately not anything about extraterrestrial beings.

Quote from: Ngati_Grim;784138
And turkish: it isn't 'widely-accepted' in the scientific community. It is accepted by a few (numerically speaking) who are on the fringes.


That really isn't true, sorry.

Quote from: Ngati_Grim;784138
If it was widely accepted, there would be peer-reviewed articles about it in scientific journals, rather than op-ed shadowmonsters in cranky websites/journals...think about it...no, really think about it...do some proper research about it and then get back to us....


You can find plenty of information about it and scientific reviews of the argument - Stephen Hawking talks about it in his book "A Brief History of Time". Good book, you should check it out. I'm not sure why it is not mentioned in more scientific journals as you claim, but maybe you are just reading the wrong scientific journals. I don't know, I don't read scientific journals.

Quote from: Ngati_Grim;784138
by the way, thanks for posting your sources (at least some of them)...it's a start...though those sources are not much use for scientific enquiry...a theologian was one author


What kind of scientific enquiry are you hoping for? I would have thought most of what I have posted thus far is pretty self explanatory.

Reply #5833 Posted: August 27, 2008, 02:00:59 pm

Offline cobra

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Quote from: Turkish;784105
It is widely accepted in the greater scientific community. It's the whole reason the Anthropic Principle was stated in the first place.


It is reconised that there are many constants in the universe, that if they were slightly different, the universe wouldn't be here - the trouble is the step you take saying therefore god

Quote from: Turkish;784105

No, what's really retarded, is an evolutionary biologist trying to explain how a complex mechanical structure like a jumbo jet could be explained by the process of biological evolution :chuckle:


his book explains why the analogy is wrong - read and understand it, might help with the problem you have - you know, every one thinking you're a moron

Quote from: Turkish;784105

You seem to be very sure that EVERYTHING can be explained by completely naturalistic terms. What makes you so sure, and how did you come to this conclusion? How do you personally think everything can be explained naturalistically? 'We don't know yet' is fine, but if you had to make an educated guess, what would it be? I would love to hear it.


everything i have encountered so far in life can be explained in naturalist terms - that includes years of scientific study and in depth discussions with people who have studied different disciplines of science - no need for the super natural

Reply #5834 Posted: August 27, 2008, 02:24:29 pm

Offline Turkish

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Quote from: cobra;784176
It is reconised that there are many constants in the universe, that if they were slightly different, the universe wouldn't be here - the trouble is the step you take saying therefore god


Where did I say that? I have said no such thing. What I have done is quoted many scientists who support the fact that it implies the possibility. Indeed the evidence has been strong enough to change their minds from atheism, and some of them even taking the leap of faith from science to religion. My point was, if the evidence is so convincing to them it makes the atheists constant claims that people who believe are irrational a whole lot less credible.


Quote from: cobra;784176
his book explains why the analogy is wrong - read and understand it, might help with the problem you have - you know, every one thinking you're a moron


a) I didn't make the analogy.

b) I don't read books by Richard Dawkins. His books are tailored specifically for atheists, I'm not an atheist.

c) What does evolution have to do with a jumbo jet? A jumbo jet is something designed and created by men, it has nothing to do with evolution.

Quote from: cobra;784176
everything i have encountered so far in life can be explained in naturalist terms - that includes years of scientific study and in depth discussions with people who have studied different disciplines of science - no need for the super natural


Of course everything in the universe can be described in naturalistic terms because everying in the universe is a natural process, but what about explaining why nature works so efficiently, the logical structure of nature and so forth? What explanation do you have for that? You honestly believe intelligence, information, complex lifeforms, precise physical laws ect. can be derived from nothing but randomness and a series of coincidental chance happenings?

Reply #5835 Posted: August 27, 2008, 02:37:36 pm

Offline Scunner

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Quote from: Turkish;784183
Of course everything in the universe can be described in naturalistic terms, but what about explaining why nature works so efficiently, the logical structure of nature and so forth? What explanation do you have for that?


Why does there have to be one?

Quote from: Turkish;784183
You honestly believe intelligence, information, complex lifeforms, precise physical laws ect. can be derived from nothing but randomness and a series of coincidental chance happenings?


Why not?

Reply #5836 Posted: August 27, 2008, 02:45:48 pm

Offline Turkish

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Quote from: Scunner;784188
Why does there have to be one?


There doesn't have to be one if you choose to conveniently ignore the question. The thing is though, the efficient structure of nature and the universe demands an explanation and cannot be attributed to evolution alone or mere randomness.

Quote from: Scunner;784188
Why not?


Because it just plain doesn't make sense, that's why not. It's the most irrational belief of all if you really think about it and the majority of scientists I have been quoting in the last page or two, would most likely agree with me.

Reply #5837 Posted: August 27, 2008, 02:51:23 pm

Offline cobra

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Quote from: Turkish;784183
Where did I say that? I have said no such thing. What I have done is quoted many scientists who support the fact that it implies the possibility. Indeed the evidence has been strong enough to change their minds from atheism, and some of them even taking the leap of faith from science to religion. My point was, if the evidence is so convincing to them it makes the atheists constant claims that people who believe are irrational a whole lot less credible.


the evidence is not convincing,  many scientists is an exaggeration, because most scientist dont support ID

Quote from: Turkish;784183

b) I don't read books by Richard Dawkins. His books are tailored specifically for atheists, I'm not an atheist.


you are just ignorant - you dont know anything about his books

Quote from: Turkish;784183

 You honestly believe intelligence, information, complex lifeforms, precise physical laws ect. can be derived from nothing but randomness and a series of coincidental chance happenings?


I feel im talking to a wall, and a stupid wall at that, NO i dont think life can be derived from randomness - the processes are not random - can you please go back to school, read book on the subject and come back when you can understand the basics

Reply #5838 Posted: August 27, 2008, 02:55:01 pm

Offline Turkish

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Quote from: cobra;784199
the evidence is not convincing,  many scientists is an exaggeration, because most scientist dont support ID


Again, it has nothing to do with "ID".

Quote from: cobra;784199
I feel im talking to a wall, and a stupid wall at that, NO i dont think life can be derived from randomness - the processes are not random - can you please go back to school, read book on the subject and come back when you can understand the basics


So you attribute everything in existence to the process of evolution?

Reply #5839 Posted: August 27, 2008, 03:01:11 pm

Offline Arnifix

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Nature is not efficient. And it doesn't matter how many times you spout about this not being ID, it is.

Reply #5840 Posted: August 27, 2008, 03:13:20 pm

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline philo-sofa

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New footage of Psyche's (aka Turkish) beliefs being taken seriously on a European talk show.

[video]P_bd5RyaiRg[/video]

Reply #5841 Posted: August 27, 2008, 03:13:58 pm

Offline cobra

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Quote from: Turkish;784203

So you attribute everything in existence to the process of evolution?


the key is to use your reading - i used "life" so only talking about life here

Reply #5842 Posted: August 27, 2008, 03:16:08 pm

Offline brucewillis2

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Quote from: Turkish;784192
Because it just plain doesn't make sense, that's why not. It's the most irrational belief of all if you really think about it and the majority of scientists I have been quoting in the last page or two, would most likely agree with me.


So what does make sense, that there is a god sitting in the heavens working out his next universe? - "this time I'm going to make the sun rainbow coloured!"

Reply #5843 Posted: August 27, 2008, 03:18:36 pm

Offline Turkish

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Quote from: cobra;784210
the key is to use your reading - i used "life" so only talking about life here


Yeah, but I'm not just talking about life, I'm talking about the entire universe and the structure of reality, time and space and the mysteries thereof, ect.

aaaaaanyway, this is going nowhere.

Reply #5844 Posted: August 27, 2008, 03:19:07 pm

Offline brucewillis2

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;784125
Yeah, but what if the initial spiritual encounter was always with the same 'being' or 'entity', but the people having the encounters attributed different qualities, traits, etc, to this being? So that in some cultures he's God, in others he's Buddha, in others he's a cat, etc etc?

I'm vague and I know it; I just find the idea intriguing is all.


I kind of see what you mean, lets drop it for now since the current topic is turkish and we'll get back to it since I'm curious to hear more.

Reply #5845 Posted: August 27, 2008, 03:21:06 pm

Offline Arnifix

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Quote from: brucewillis2;784214
I kind of see what you mean, lets drop it for now since the current topic is psyche and we'll get back to it since I'm curious to hear more.
Fixt.

Reply #5846 Posted: August 27, 2008, 03:27:38 pm

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline Turkish

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Reply #5847 Posted: August 27, 2008, 03:32:17 pm

Offline Ngati_Grim

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Quote from: philo-sofa;784209
New footage of Psyche's (aka Turkish) beliefs being taken seriously on a European talk show.




Laughter is contagious...that was so funny!


Why can't it all be a product of evolution. That is the most parsimonious answer.






ooops, in my opinion, that is.

Reply #5848 Posted: August 27, 2008, 03:53:19 pm
Recycle your red poppies, paint them white, and wear them throughout the year.

Offline Dr Woomanchu

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Quote from: Ngati_Grim;784237
Laughter is contagious...that was so funny!


Why can't it all be a product of evolution. That is the most parsimonious answer.






ooops, in my opinion, that is.


I think that the underlying reason is that, with no god dude making everything, we aren't special any more.

If I was a god, evolution is exactly the kind of thing I'd introduce. Having to play with the same lego for billions of years would get tedious. With evolution your toys change over time, and its a naturally competitive model, so you can try ideas out against each other.

Reply #5849 Posted: August 27, 2008, 04:07:05 pm

Blackwatch Off Topic - Abandon hope all ye who enter here