Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[UppityDuck]

Yep, it'll take a while methinks as I've about six books on the go at the mo'...but will try to review when complete.

[TofuEater]

This is the original source of a fascinating article that was in the Sunday Star-Times yesterday: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5324234.ece

[cobra]

http://hypnosis.home.netcom.com/iq_vs_religiosity.htm

so the more religious a country is the low the average IQ - quite interesting

[Bell]

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Tiwaking!]

If you ask me, fundamentalism is fine

Then you are sadly wrong

Love is patient; love is kind
and envies no one.
Love is never boastful, nor conceited, nor rude;
never selfish, not quick to take offense.
There is nothing love cannot face;
there is no limit to its faith,
its hope, and endurance.
In a word, there are three things
that last forever: faith, hope, and love;
but the greatest of them all is love

Fundamentalism is not patient.
Fundamentalism is not kind.
Fundamentalism envies everyone.
Fundamentalism is boastful, concieted and rude
Fundamentalism is selfish and quick to take offense
Fundamentalism can face nothing
Fundamentalism is limited to its faith

....and Simon Barnett is a gimpwad

[ThaFleastyler]

Way to take me out of context, tiwa

[Arnifix]

Why would one assume the benevolence of a divine being?

[ThaFleastyler]

Because one hasn't read the whole book yet? :asian:

[Arnifix]

Because one hasn't read the whole book yet? :asian:

Prove that your god has a monopoly on divinity and I'll say that your post has merit.

[ThaFleastyler]

I haz failed at jokez :disappoin

[UppityDuck]

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Article link

Freedom From Religion Foundation

...also relevant to this is the latest Scientific American with an Evolution Special: link


 and the latest New Scientist which has an article on the 'god' part of the brain (How your brain creates God); and this is online:Vatican backs Darwin, dumps creationism

Happy Reading :bounce:

[Dr Woomanchu]

Lovely week at work this week.

The last few nights we've been hosting a 7th day Adventist  series of lectures by a preacher from the US with the usual fundy stuff, then for the next 2 days we have a biology educators conference with parties to celebrate Darwins birthday , then the fundys are back in the weekend.

[ThaFleastyler]

The last few nights we've been hosting a 7th day Adventist  series of lectures by a preacher from the US with the usual fundy stuff

Have you heard the lectures? Who is the preacher?

If you have, be complete honest: have you picked up anything of any use to you at all?

[pix]

On a fundamental genetic level. Evolution is impossible, and makes no sense what-so-ever.

Genetically we all come from one original woman, this woman, cannot have evolved from a single cell organism as humans are not progressively evolving. Infact, quite the opposite, all life is devolving. Becomming shorter, more suseptible to disease. Genetically, over a long time, we are all sub-par compared to our ancestors.

Enjoy that thought, even though we may leave this earth one day and inhabit other lands. Genetically, our race is doomed.

[Dr Woomanchu]

Have you heard the lectures? Who is the preacher?
If you have, be complete honest: have you picked up anything of any use to you at all?

Leo Schraver: He presented All Power, a large public self help seminar, last weekend. Minimal mention of the religious aspects, but he has stayed in Christchurch for several weeks of lectures on biblical prophecy.

I've heard maybe 15 minutes of 10 hours of lectures . Underneath all the verbiage his basic precept is that the pope is the anti-christ, (based on revelations) and that he doesn't want you to hear him speak. Anything that gets in the way of attending the lectures is the work of the anti-christ.

I'm sorry flea, but this, and the rest of his stuff is such self evident garbage that my ability to listen is very small. I don't need convincing about the virtues of peace, charity, love and good will to all.  I treat others with respect and goodwill and assume until proven otherwise that others will not act with malice toward me. All very new testament christian precepts, but I personally don't need a mythical or religious framework to live by these values.

I accept and understand that many people find a religious framework a useful thing to give their life structure and meaning, but that's not the only way of finding a way to live and be happy. The clearly absurd and fantastical  junk wrapped around the nuggets of wisdom about how to live a good life are just too hard for me to get through, so I've had to find other ways of adding meaning to my life.

I generally enjoy working these gigs. The people are nice and polite, if a little earnest for my liking. I very occasionally strike someone who wants to proselytise, but I've only had one person persist after I've told them politely that this was my place of work, and I had no interest in any discussion of beliefs or religion. I just walked away from that one. Fortunately she hasn't tried again.

[Dr Woomanchu]

On a fundamental genetic level. Evolution is impossible, and makes no sense what-so-ever.

Genetically we all come from one original woman, this woman, cannot have evolved from a single cell organism as humans are not progressively evolving. Infact, quite the opposite, all life is devolving. Becomming shorter, more suseptible to disease. Genetically, over a long time, we are all sub-par compared to our ancestors.

Enjoy that thought, even though we may leave this earth one day and inhabit other lands. Genetically, our race is doomed.

Congratulations, I think you have successfully made a post with not one correct statement in it. It's hard to respond because I can't figure out what you're basing them on. You haven't taken acid have you?

[Poos]

On a fundamental genetic level. Evolution is impossible, and makes no sense what-so-ever.

Genetically we all come from one original woman, this woman, cannot have evolved from a single cell organism as humans are not progressively evolving. Infact, quite the opposite, all life is devolving. Becomming shorter, more suseptible to disease. Genetically, over a long time, we are all sub-par compared to our ancestors.

Enjoy that thought, even though we may leave this earth one day and inhabit other lands. Genetically, our race is doomed.

Agreed  with last comment, its not that we are devolving its that our lifestyle and environment is affecting our health badly which in turn alters genes in a negative way which we then pass on.

[Bell]

IMO its because evolution has completely stopped in humans because the weakest link doesn't die out.

Without Medicine those people with serious genetic conditions at birth normally die before having children.
Now because we save everyone we can, people with defective genes survive to pass on bad genes to thier children who inturn pass it on.

I would argue that we are devolving, and lifestyle doesn't effect our genes.
Evolution is the process of an animal improving to suit its environment by passing on favourable genes while losing non-favourable traits through death.
We are encourging non-favourable genes to continue to spread throughout the gene pool through the use of medicine, thus becoming a "weaker" species.

[Steady]

I'd just like to be one of the many to say LOL, and if you're after an e-answer look no further than http://forums.iconzarena.com/showthread.php?t=25336

[Dante]

Evolution is the process of an animal improving to suit its environment by passing on favourable genes while losing non-favourable traits through death.

Actually - it's more accurate to describe that particular process as 'natural selection', and the term evolution describes the development of something over time, as a whole; Ie. the development of the Earth over time, the development of species over time, the development of the solar system over time, and so forth. Just to be somewhat pedantic...

We are encourging non-favourable genes to continue to spread throughout the gene pool through the use of medicine, thus becoming a "weaker" species.

Oh well, that's life. If it's any constellation, there is still a whole raft of scientists working on the Human Genome Project.. From what I understand they completed the mapping of the entire genome a few years ago and are now busily working on decoding and deconstructing it, identifying and attempting to eliminate certain mutations that result in genetically inherited deficiencies, or obtain data that can be utilized by medical professionals to better treat, or even cure a range of currently incurable diseases. (I wonder if they can find a cure to the common cold as well? )

That's just based on my limited knowledge on the subject, but it's pretty fascinating anyway. They are doing some amazing stuff.

It sounds great in theory, but one must also always keep in mind, that if there is one thing we should have learnt by now it is that messing around with nature can and indeed has had dire consequences.

Incidentally, have you seen a film called Gattaca?

[Dante]

Evolution is the process of an animal improving to suit its environment by passing on favourable genes while losing non-favourable traits through death.

Actually - it's more accurate to describe that particular process as 'natural selection', and the term evolution describes the development of something over time, as a whole; Ie. the development of the Earth over time, the development of species over time, the development of the solar system over time, and so forth. Just to be somewhat pedantic...

We are encourging non-favourable genes to continue to spread throughout the gene pool through the use of medicine, thus becoming a "weaker" species.

Oh well, that's life. If it's any constellation, there is still a whole raft of geneticists working on the Human Genome Project.. From what I understand they completed the mapping of the entire genome a few years ago and are now busily working on decoding and deconstructing it, identifying and attempting to eliminate certain mutations that result in genetically inherited deficiencies, or obtain data that can be utilized by medical professionals to better treat, or even cure a range of currently incurable diseases. (I wonder if they can find a cure to the common cold as well? )

That's just based on my limited knowledge on the subject, but it's pretty fascinating anyway. They are doing some amazing stuff.

It sounds great in theory, but one must also always keep in mind, that if there is one thing we should have learnt by now it is that messing around with nature can and indeed has had dire consequences.

Incidentally, have you seen a film called Gattaca?

[frog.]

Enjoy that thought, even though we may leave this earth one day and inhabit other lands. Genetically, our race is doomed.

Genetic Manipulation.

This throws the weak link thing right out the window.

have you seen a film called Gattaca?

Glad you mentioned this, I had forgot all about it, been meaning to watch it.

[pix]

Congratulations, I think you have successfully made a post with not one correct statement in it. It's hard to respond because I can't figure out what you're basing them on. You haven't taken acid have you?

A father with a degree in micro biology and genetics.

Genetic Manipulation.

So in order to survive as humans, we have to become something else.

[cobra]

A father with a degree in micro biology and genetics.

he must have studied before they taught Evolution, or didn't go to the lectures and just got high.

there are several serious misconceptions about evolution in your post

[krasher]

What are your qualifications in micro biology and genetics cobra? Just because another man's science doesn't agree with yours doesn't mean it is wrong or he was high whilst studying.

Do you not see what you are doing? Do you not see how closed minded you appear?