Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline dark_angel

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Quote from: lower;929366
But for millions of christians out there their faith in neither blind nor misguided.
their faith is what give them purpose and meaning, and just because i don't share the same views doesn't make their lives any less meaningful. If all the atheist and non-believers out there started telling the christians that their faith in god is a bad thing and misguided then ultimately your no better then the self-righteous preachy religious types.


obviously the brains of the relationship:asian:

Reply #6700 Posted: April 30, 2009, 07:08:46 pm
OVER 9000!?

Offline lower

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First define misguided & blind then we can talk about the rest.


obviously i'm not talking about all the god-fearing types out there. because people do some stupid stupid things for the sake of religion and their beliefs. i just don't get how people using the bible and their personal faith in leading the best lives possible for themselves can be defined as 'misguided and blind'.  when they have chosen that path, it's not as though they have all been hidden from the outside world, they learnt about evolution and the conflicting evidence science presents and made the decision for themselves (again, i'm not talking about everyone, but in my experience it is a large portion)
If an article was written in popular science stating a team of the worlds top researchers had made the discovery that the earth used to be rectangle most people would be like 'wow i never knew that' And just take the what it says as fact, they wouldn't spend the next 10 years of their lives researching and finding it out for themselves. now THAT is blind and misguided.  


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obviously the brains of the relationship:asian:


it's ok you're the raging gaming talent  <3

Reply #6701 Posted: April 30, 2009, 08:17:16 pm

Offline cobra

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Quote from: lower;929422
obviously i'm not talking about all the god-fearing types out there. because people do some stupid stupid things for the sake of religion and their beliefs. i just don't get how people using the bible and their personal faith in leading the best lives possible for themselves can be defined as 'misguided and blind'.  when they have chosen that path, it's not as though they have all been hidden from the outside world, they learnt about evolution and the conflicting evidence science presents and made the decision for themselves (again, i'm not talking about everyone, but in my experience it is a large portion)


having faith in god forces you to ignore large chunks of reality - that is the dangerous part - you have christians in this thread who dont believe humans evolved, because of their blind (blind to any alternatives) faith in god they are forced to ignore facts and reason

the conflicting "evidence" when you talk about evolution is another danger of your "harmless faith" - people with religious agendas spamming out unscientific propaganda to try and convince people that evolution is not fact and that we were "created" by a space monster with out any factual evidence backing it - it is promoting ignorance

Quote from: lower;929422

If an article was written in popular science stating a team of the worlds top researchers had made the discovery that the earth used to be rectangle most people would be like 'wow i never knew that' And just take the what it says as fact, they wouldn't spend the next 10 years of their lives researching and finding it out for themselves. now THAT is blind and misguided.  


wow you make up a bullshit unreasonable story and then shoot it down, nice work.

you seem to be completely ignorant when it comes to science so i will help you out - the article would need to be backed up with facts and reason which would be presented so you wouldn't need to study for 10 years, you could read their study, science does not ask you to blindly accept gospel, in fact science is all about critical review and trying to prove the commonly held viewpoints wrong so for something to be a commonly held view by scientists it needs to have quite a lot of evidence backing it

Reply #6702 Posted: April 30, 2009, 08:46:11 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: lower;929366
If all the atheist and non-believers out there started telling the christians that their faith in god is a bad thing and misguided then ultimately your no better then the self-righteous preachy religious types.

Dramatic slow clap anyone?

*claps*

Seriously, I like this guy. +rep.

Reply #6703 Posted: April 30, 2009, 08:57:49 pm

Offline lower

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;929460
Dramatic slow clap anyone?

*claps*

Seriously, I like this guy. +rep.


thanks :thumb:
i'm not a guy though.

Reply #6704 Posted: April 30, 2009, 09:24:24 pm

Offline Bell

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Quote from: lower;929422
when they have chosen that path, it's not as though they have all been hidden from the outside world, they learnt about evolution and the conflicting evidence science presents and made the decision for themselves (again, i'm not talking about everyone, but in my experience it is a large portion)

Maybe the majority in NZ, but you can't say the same for every country.
I have little problem with religion in NZ, mainly because our country is very secular, religion does not have a major effect on our politics and running of the country.
I take would take great issue with it if it started to.
Its fine to say people are free to believe in whatever that want even if it the reasoning behind it is argueably flawed, but if those people get into power and start making desisions based on that reasoning, it would not be ideal.

In short, sure everyone is allowed to believe in whatever the hell they want, aslong as it doesn't effect me

Reply #6705 Posted: April 30, 2009, 09:52:01 pm

Offline Zarkov

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Quote from: lower;929474
thanks :thumb:
i'm not a guy though.


What on earth is that thing stuck in the back of your neck.

Some sort of mind probe?

Reply #6706 Posted: April 30, 2009, 10:03:31 pm

Offline lower

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What on earth is that thing stuck in the back of your neck.

Some sort of mind probe?


yeah, i've been sent by the catholic church to defend their beliefs in random new zealand gaming forums.



oh shit, my covers blown.


*runs off to create new account*

Reply #6707 Posted: April 30, 2009, 10:09:59 pm

Offline frog.

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Quote from: Bell;929491

In short, sure everyone is allowed to believe in whatever the hell they want, aslong as it doesn't effect me

You ask to much. You best find another planet to live on, in solitude.

Reply #6708 Posted: April 30, 2009, 10:30:07 pm
pancakesrreal | Everyone of us is high but you

Offline Bell

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Well answer me this, for any athiest/non-believer who thinks allowing people to believe in "whatever" they want is fine.

What if for instance %51 of the NZ population became for lack of a better phrase "hard-core religious" and elected a government who either replaced evolution with I.D or taught it equally along side Evolution.

Since they are both just 2 equal and perfectly reasonable ways at looking at things that would be fine right?

They have been having this debate in America for awhile now, the fact that people are seriously considering and pushing for a unproven untestable ideological theory to be ranked along side something that has strong evidence and scienfic backing quite frankly scares me.
If you can teach I.D in schools you can make up anything gather a majority and teach it.

Reply #6709 Posted: April 30, 2009, 11:20:48 pm

Offline Bell

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When I say "allow you to believe in whatever you want"
I mean I will allow you to think that stuff without arguing with you or telling you I think you are wrong.

But as soon as I feel your beliefs will effect me negatively, I'm not going to worry about offending you.
That whole "respect others people beliefs kinda goes out the window".
There is a limit.

For example I won't respect any beliefs that suggest a race is inferior, a sex is inferior, a sexual orientation is wrong.

Reply #6710 Posted: April 30, 2009, 11:31:15 pm

Offline Dr Woomanchu

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Quote from: lower;929366
But for millions of christians out there their faith in neither blind nor misguided.
their faith is what give them purpose and meaning, and just because i don't share the same views doesn't make their lives any less meaningful. If all the atheist and non-believers out there started telling the christians that their faith in god is a bad thing and misguided then ultimately your no better then the self-righteous preachy religious types.


QFT

Reply #6711 Posted: May 01, 2009, 01:19:42 am

Blackwatch Off Topic - Abandon hope all ye who enter here

Offline blackheartrum

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it's a lovely quote and all but all life is meaningless. We can't tell Osama his faith in Allah is a bad thing ?

Reply #6712 Posted: May 01, 2009, 07:54:47 am

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: blackheartrum;929571
it's a lovely quote and all but all life is meaningless. We can't tell Osama his faith in Allah is a bad thing ?

Probably not - he'll kill you if you say that to him.

Reply #6713 Posted: May 01, 2009, 08:03:35 am

Offline KiLL3r

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Quote from: lower;929366
But for millions of christians out there their faith in neither blind nor misguided.


im sure hitler thought he was doing the right thing too. doesnt mean he was though does it? But im sure youll respect his beliefs.

Reply #6714 Posted: May 01, 2009, 08:22:05 am


Offline cobra

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Quote from: KiLL3r;929578
im sure hitler thought he was doing the right thing too. doesnt mean he was though does it? But im sure youll respect his beliefs.


well you wouldn't want to say that his beliefs were wrong, then you would be no better then those self-righteous preachy religious types.

Reply #6715 Posted: May 01, 2009, 08:29:24 am

Offline ThaFleastyler

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im sure hitler thought he was doing the right thing too. doesnt mean he was though does it? But im sure youll respect his beliefs.
FFS, I thought we covered this. Christian beliefs and Hitler's beliefs are in no way related. In. No. Way. Related. Secondly, Hitler could have believed whatever he wanted - there are plenty of people who believe far worse - but the problem was he started killing people who disagreed with him.

As we've discussed plenty of times throughout the course of this thread, the right to believe in whatever you want is an important right that the people of this country, and many countries world-wide, enjoy. You and I agree on the point that if a persons beliefs negatively impact on someone else, then probably they are doing it wrong.

Reply #6716 Posted: May 01, 2009, 09:05:32 am

Offline Bell

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I'm pretty sure noone is suggesting that moderate Christian beliefs are that bad.
It's about using religion to support/promote harmful beliefs.
It happens so therefore I am not going to just come out with a simple phrase.
"Oh lets just respect everyones beliefs"

Its easier to sit back and just let people do what they want than to question something that seems taboo to question.

Why is it that people can't question religion in the public domain?
Everytime someone does that a whole bunch of rage erupts with people saying you need to "respect peoples beliefs", yet we can question pretty much anything else.

Reply #6717 Posted: May 01, 2009, 09:18:52 am

Offline Bell

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You and I agree on the point that if a persons beliefs negatively impact on someone else, then probably they are doing it wrong.

So do you continue to respect thier beliefs and not speak up?

Reply #6718 Posted: May 01, 2009, 09:21:51 am

Offline Bell

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Probably not - he'll kill you if you say that to him.

Just like the people in denmark who got killed for questioning islamic practises in public while trying to uphold womens rights.

Reply #6719 Posted: May 01, 2009, 09:25:10 am

Offline ThaFleastyler

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So do you continue to respect thier beliefs and not speak up?

Well, no. If someones beliefs are negatively impacting someone else who doesn't share those beliefs, then action should be taken. The Allies were right to take action against Hitler, for example.

That said, simply sharing a belief isn't "negatively impacting". The sharing of ideas, whether good ideas or bad ideas, is as important to the advancement of society as the freedom to believe what you want to believe.

Reply #6720 Posted: May 01, 2009, 10:09:08 am

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Why is it that people can't question religion in the public domain?
Everytime someone does that a whole bunch of rage erupts with people saying you need to "respect peoples beliefs", yet we can question pretty much anything else.

See, those who get angry when their beliefs are questioned probably fall into that "you're doing it wrong" category. I don't mind if my beliefs are questioned; heck, this thread is now how many pages long? But I do object to being told that my beliefs are dangerous and that I should not be allowed to believe them, which is the opinion of several members here.

Reply #6721 Posted: May 01, 2009, 10:11:18 am

Offline lower

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im sure hitler thought he was doing the right thing too. doesnt mean he was though does it? But im sure youll respect his beliefs.

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well you wouldn't want to say that his beliefs were wrong, then you would be no better then those self-righteous preachy religious types.



*clap,clap,clap* congratulations for a couple of the dumbest comments i have seen in this thread. out of context completely.

1. in no way related
2. i got started because someone took one tiny portion out of my first post and turned it into 'faith in god is bad'. Hitler had the right to believe whatever he wanted it's his actions which changed things. Just as islamic extremist have the right to believe what they want. but the second they try to force their beliefs upon people by blowing things up and killing people of different religions it's no longer just a personal belief.
3. if you go back and read my post i said nothing about hitler, i am talking specifically about the large portion of christians who live their lives by faith without being over-bearing with their beliefs


I think the worst thing is humans make the assumption they know more than they actually do.
i admit i know next to nothing about the universe, but it's not just me, it's all of mankind. there's a lot of plausible theories but in reality the universe and the concept of god is too great for humans to properly comprehend.
The bible is human way of understanding the incomprehensible, but in doing that it creates cliches which people refer to when they think of god. they think of something tangible, who they can talk to and see. when in actual fact the concept is so much greater then that.
One thing i do know is that in all the discoveries man has made, all the theories man has come up with although it has shown many of the stories in the bible to be implausible (not impossible) but not one thing has proven that god does not exist, in fact it has just opened more questions about how everything came into existence. Why there is anything.
In my short time on this planet i have realized that we know so little that it is stupid to make any assumptions about the universe and the meaning of life. One of the most arrogant (and stupid) things people can do is say with absolute conviction "life is pointless and god doesn't exist"  and therefore begin feeling mighty and looking down on those who believe maybe, just maybe, there is a point to life and complete existence isn't just one giant accident. because ultimately we don't know, and we probably never will.

i'm sure there's people who will disagree with me and try to pick apart every sentence while quoting einstein or their 7th form physics teacher.

Reply #6722 Posted: May 01, 2009, 11:02:13 am

Offline Bell

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Quote from: lower;929664
i admit i know next to nothing about the universe, but it's not just me, it's all of mankind. there's a lot of plausible theories but in reality the universe and the concept of god is too great for humans to properly comprehend.

So you then you would agree organised religion shouldn't exist and we should all be agnostic?
Organised religions claim they know what god wants.

Since it would be silly to believe you know what god is, we should just accept we won't be able to figure it out.

That's my 'belief'

Reply #6723 Posted: May 01, 2009, 11:11:03 am

Offline Bell

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;929642
See, those who get angry when their beliefs are questioned probably fall into that "you're doing it wrong" category. I don't mind if my beliefs are questioned; heck, this thread is now how many pages long? But I do object to being told that my beliefs are dangerous and that I should not be allowed to believe them, which is the opinion of several members here.

Fair call, I can agree with this.

Reply #6724 Posted: May 01, 2009, 11:18:46 am