Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[lower]

So you then you would agree organized religion shouldn't exist and we should all be agnostic?
Organised religions claim they know what god wants.

Since it would be silly to believe you know what god is, we should just accept we won't be able to figure it out.

That's my 'belief'

humans can't pretend to know exactly what god wants.
and i don't believe in organized religion,
however the base belief in life with purpose isn't a bad thing. and people use religion to feel more in control of what they don't understand. if it works for them, all power to them, it doesn't necessarily mean religion shouldn't exist all together.

[cobra]

*clap,clap,clap* congratulations for a couple of the dumbest comments i have seen in this thread. out of context completely.
1. in no way related
2. i got started because someone took one tiny portion out of my first post and turned it into 'faith in god is bad'. Hitler had the right to believe whatever he wanted it's his actions which changed things. Just as islamic extremist have the right to believe what they want. but the second they try to force their beliefs upon people by blowing things up and killing people of different religions it's no longer just a personal belief.
3. if you go back and read my post i said nothing about hitler, i am talking specifically about the large portion of christians who live their lives by faith without being over-bearing with their beliefs

you missed the point, it was an example to show that all beliefs should not be respected and saying that they are wrong does not make you as bad as preachy fundies

The bible is human way of understanding the incomprehensible,

can you provide an example of this understanding that the bible provides?

but not one thing has proven that god does not exist,

ffs - you can not prove things dont exist, but god, if there is one, is exactly the same as nothing - there is absolutely no difference between god and no god (please provide the difference if you can find any), isn't that a subtle clue that prehaps your god is not real?

One of the most arrogant (and stupid) things people can do is say with absolute conviction "life is pointless and god doesn't exist"  

not as arrogant (and stupid) as saying with absolute conviction "there is a god who loves me"

[huey31415]

[swindle]

Something for a few people in here to read....

The End Of Faith - Sam Harris

The God Delisiuon - Richard Dawkins

God Is Not Great - (can't think of author right now)

I've started reading a few of these books. They're very good. The idea of "religion" and "god" in any shape or form is total ignorance and complete stupidity doing nothing more then belitting and holding back peoples minds. Its sad really.

Its truely, disturbingly sad.

[blackheartrum]

I disagree, some very smart people have beleif in god, and the more I hear Dawkins bleat the less I like him.

Dawkins is blind to the fact, that if you assume (as he does) religion is the fascination of a weak / dumber / indoctrinated mind, removing religion wont actually change that mind, it wont improve anything, it just means the irrational stupid malcontent, is even less content and just as prone to violence, also the restraint of eternal punishment just went out the window.

What does Dawkins hope to achieve ? He's probably heavily invested in prozac, because unlike him and his intellectual 'company' a lot of the humans below the average IQ line aren't able to spend their time,as he does expanding their knowledge, and gaining better understanding of ourselves and the universe (ie being fulfilled), they have menial tasks to dull their minds, 40+ hours a week, their existence, their goals is simple, carry on living, and thats about all some have. Why allow Dawkins to steal from them what they find both a simple pleasure and comforting.

If you watch a movie like slumdog millionaire where people are mutilated to make better beggars, you can easily draw the conclusion that religion is just an easy excuse to splash acid in your sisters face for shaming your family, if they didn't have that excuse they'd just use another one like 'we need the money.'

Religion is just another stimulant for the mind, as is science, and all the wonderful drugs and things some find so amusing, they affect each and everyone of us differently, hence we all have our favourites.

Yes my veiwpoint has changed over time, and to me thats a good thing, who wants to think the same way for their lifetime, do I beleive in god ? No. Do I care if others want to, not really. Does that in any way condone extremist behaviour ? No.

The simple fact is there would be just as many motherfucking bastards in this world with or without religion.

PS this thread has had absolutely no impact on altering my viewpoint. And I'm fully aware of the flip flop from intelligent people believing in god and then ranting about the lower half who believe, I just CBF'ed fixing it.

[huey31415]

The simple fact is there would be just as many motherfucking bastards in this world with or without religion.

I don't think so. All religions have morals and ethics for their followers. Even if a religion is false, at least it encourages the people to be good honest citizens. Imagine all the trouble we would have in the world if people thought they could do anything they wanted without having to feel guilty and without the fear of future punishment for their actions. Society would have descended into anarchy and we'd be lucky to even reach the dark ages.

[Zarathrustra]

I don't think so. All religions have morals and ethics for their followers. Even if a religion is false, at least it encourages the people to be good honest citizens. Imagine all the trouble we would have in the world if people thought they could do anything they wanted without having to feel guilty and without the fear of future punishment for their actions. Society would have descended into anarchy and we'd be lucky to even reach the dark ages.

Those sort of people, the ones that are only "good" due to a fear of god, are the true "scum of the earth".

At least godless, heathen sinners and criminals are honest about who they are.

The "godless" people that are still "good" are the ones I truly respect.

[blackheartrum]

I don't think so. All religions have morals and ethics for their followers. Even if a religion is false, at least it encourages the people to be good honest citizens. Imagine all the trouble we would have in the world if people thought they could do anything they wanted without having to feel guilty and without the fear of future punishment for their actions. Society would have descended into anarchy and we'd be lucky to even reach the dark ages.

the trouble with this logic is that it is logic. How does a child molesting priest reconcile his actions with a god he truly beleives in?

Why would a violent criminal 'find god' in prison, the logical conclusion is that they can expect eternal damnation as well as what ever prison time they have.

We are only held to our beliefs by our own will, and we often contradict them on a whim.

[Zarathrustra]

I don't think that's quite the point.  Sure, many "believers" contradict the fundamental laws/rules/morals of their chosen religion, some on a daily basis - but they all seem to find a way to twist it (lie to themselves perhaps), into the ideal that believing they are sorry is enough to cover themselves - hell, isn't that exactly why they created Jesus?

But I think that even those people, without the religious system to instil at least some level of guilt, would be doing a lot more wrong in the world than they currently are - and the large amount of other believers for whom the control of religion is enough to keep their darker natures at almost totally at bay, would also be more of a thorn in the side of society without it.

As much as I hate to say it, I think this is the only reason we really do still need religious belief in this world - I really do despise religion, but I just don't have the faith in humanity to be civil without it.

[blackheartrum]

Morals exist outside of religion though. I might not think much of Dawkins opinions / theories, but I still think he's a decent person, and has good moral judgement.

[Zarathrustra]

Morals exist outside of religion though. I might not think much of Dawkins opinions / theories, but I still think he's a decent person, and has good moral judgement.

Oh for sure, and that's what I was getting at a few posts up.  But I think that for some people they don't as much, and religion provides them with a sort of external factor to keep them in check.  It may be a generic, sometimes nonsensical moral code, but it's better than nothing, for those that need something.

No normal person should need a set of rules passed down by an all powerful, vengeful "God" to dictate right from wrong, but in my eyes some parts of humanity have proven that they really still do... it's sad.

[Iblis]

Something for a few people in here to read....

The End Of Faith - Sam Harris

The God Delisiuon - Richard Dawkins

God Is Not Great - (can't think of author right now)

I've started reading a few of these books. They're very good. The idea of "religion" and "god" in any shape or form is total ignorance and complete stupidity doing nothing more then belitting and holding back peoples minds. Its sad really.

Its truely, disturbingly sad.

It's Christopher Hitchens. Also +1 (when I'm allowed to give it to you again)

[cobra]

I don't think so. All religions have morals and ethics for their followers. Even if a religion is false, at least it encourages the people to be good honest citizens. Imagine all the trouble we would have in the world if people thought they could do anything they wanted without having to feel guilty and without the fear of future punishment for their actions. Society would have descended into anarchy and we'd be lucky to even reach the dark ages.

christians are over represented in American prisons, athiests are under represented - this blows your theory out of the water and suggests that an educated intelligent populace encourages the people to be good honest citizens (this is based on studies that conclude athiests have a higher IQ and more education than non athiests).

Those sort of people, the ones that are only "good" due to a fear of god, are the true "scum of the earth".

At least godless, heathen sinners and criminals are honest about who they are.

The "godless" people that are still "good" are the ones I truly respect.

bless

I might not think much of Dawkins opinions / theories, but I still think he's a decent person, and has good moral judgement.

you can not judge Dawkins on the 'God Delusion' alone, he has written many good books on evolution which are a must to anyone who truly wants to understand the universe we live in and is one of the great intellects of our time - most people would rage against the ignorant christians who try to ban the teaching of evolution in schools if you were a true scholar of the subject and i would ask you to read "the blind watch maker" before making any sort of judgement of the mans theories

[blackheartrum]

i was refering to his social/religious theories, scientific are seperate.

[KiLL3r]

One of the most arrogant (and stupid) things people can do is say with absolute conviction "life is pointless and god doesn't exist"

and now you are assuming all atheist think life is pointless! hypocrite...

i think life is worth living to its fullest and discovering everything i can about it AND god doesn't exist


also the hitler thing which you totally missed the point on is just an example that not all beliefs can be respected and left to their own devices. It had nothing to do with hitler being a christian even thou he was.

[Bell]

I would agrue life means more to an atheist, because thats all they have

[huey31415]

so greed and selfishness would be a lot more tempting, right?

[Zarkov]

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Iblis]

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

God put it there to test us.

[Spork]

Dell warranty... wtf?

8.2 This Standard Warranty does not cover damage, fault, failure or malfunction due to external causes, including accident, abuse, misuse, problems with electrical power, servicing not authorized by Dell, usage and/or storage and/or installation not in accordance with Product instructions, failure to perform required preventive maintenance, normal wear and tear, act of God, fire, flood, war, act of violence or any similar occurrence; any attempt by any person other than Dell personnel or any person authorised by Dell, to adjust, repair or support the Products and problems caused by use of parts and components not supplied by Dell.

This is probably old as roger rabbit, but oh well, i thought it was crazy, a friend of a friends laptop broke and dells warranty didnt cover it because it was broken by an act of god....

[Tiwaking!]

God put it there to test us.

That picture is ridiculous

It doesnt even show god squinting at some guy masturbating to porn on his computer

[Arnifix]

God put it there to test us.

Quoting images. God obviously put you here to test our patience.

[ThaFleastyler]

Agreed - Zarkov, can you please spoiler the original image, and Iblis, can you just plain remove it from the quote of the post immediately above yours when actually a simple "^^" would've done just as well. This thread is an eye-sore.

[Iblis]

Agreed - Zarkov, can you please spoiler the original image, and Iblis, can you just plain remove it from the quote of the post immediately above yours when actually a simple "^^" would've done just as well. This thread is an eye-sore.

My faith forbids me from doing so.

[ThaFleastyler]

Another no-sense reply.
At least insult faith in some kind of context.